Oblivion sacrificed what made Morrowind special: Todd H

[DragoFireheart]

The only thing that really seems far fetched is the radiant quest. If that doesn't sound too good to be true.

Probably another shity variation of what Oblivion had.

 

[Serious_Business]

Dragon Age 2

 

[mondblut]

The Codex: loving Bethesda again since the latest Bioware masterpieces.

(i'm guilty as charged, heh)

 

[Sceptic]

we wanted to get back to the more classic Arena and Daggerfall feel of a fantasy world that felt more refined and welcoming

Yeah I remember that all the political backstabbing and assassination attempts (not to mention the dungeons themselves) made Daggerfall feel so very welcoming.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I have the impression he's talking about the art style / direction

 

[mondblut]

"Welcoming" = "tolkien elves and plate-mailed knights among the typical western european forests and castles and medieval towns".

He does make sense really, there is no way Cyrodiil, a center of core human civilization, could be weird and alien. Unless you want to retconrape the lore and turn the empire into some subhuman samurai-aztec crap, but I find the very thought of leading human civilization in a fantasy game not being based on our nordic, western european archetypes utterly offensive and appalling. Mud races belong to the far and savage reaches of *our* fantasy, end of fucking story.

But then again, the here-be-vikings-province doesn't sound particularly weird and alien too. I hardly imagine local Olafs and Eriks living in dwellings built from whale bones and using giant snow worms for public transportation.

 

[Sceptic]

there is no way Cyrodiil, a center of core human civilization, could be weird and alien

The initial concept of valley surrounded by jungle and Nibenay vs Colovian would've been interesting enough without needing to be weird and alien.

 

[Metro]

Eh... considering he just mentions some ephemeral concept of 'welcoming vs. alien' and doesn't actually state the real reasons Oblivion was worse than Morrowind I don't expect much improvement. The reality is Oblivion sold a bajillion copies, was salivated on by almost every media outlet, and -- most damning -- multi-platform. No reason for them to change that formula for Skyrim.

 

[DraQ]

I have the impression he's talking about the art style / direction

Well, they did merge all the low points from the entire series in Oblivious, except for the aspects where they decided to plunge into new lows, that is.

Pre-Morrowind TES aren't particularly awesome in terms of art direction.

 

[Sceptic]

Pre-Morrowind TES aren't particularly awesome in terms of art direction.

Not sure... Daggerfall had some very nice and stark difference between cities in Hammerfell and High Rock, for example. And if you count the spinoffs, Redguard had some beautiful aesthetics in the Dwemer ruins and Battlespire was gorgeous in places.

 

[DraQ]

Pre-Morrowind TES aren't particularly awesome in terms of art direction.

Not sure... Daggerfall had some very nice and stark difference between cities in Hammerfell and High Rock, for example. And if you count the spinoffs, Redguard had some beautiful aesthetics in the Dwemer ruins and Battlespire was gorgeous in places.

I haven't played Redguard (or any of the spinoffs - I have Battlespire somewhere on my disk, IIRC), but in the main series Morrowind is a definite high point. Redguard was sort of proto-Morrowind in terms of lore, so I'd expect art direction as well.

Daggerfall did some things right - backgrounds were pretty cool sometimes, for example - but in general it always seemed very average to me in this particular aspect.

 

[Xi]

The Codex: loving Bethesda again since the latest Bioware masterpieces.

(i'm guilty as charged, heh)

I think it boils down to trying to fulfill a craving that has been abstinent for many years. Hope for the best, expect the worst.

 

[DraQ]

expect the worst.

Oh! That's like with Onlive, right?

 

[Xi]

Oh! That's like with Onlive, right?

I was interested in the tech behind Onlive. Everyone was saying such tech was not possible. However it was, and continues to function to this day. I never said it would be the second coming, I merely stated that you would be seeing a lot more of it in the future. I still believe this, for better or for worse. Of course, I'm expecting the worst.

 

[Destroid]

The latency issues with online will never, ever be resolved until we have some kind of revolution in telecommunications.

 

[SCO]

The latency issues with online will never, ever be resolved until we have some kind of revolution in telecommunications.

They could try to slip "critical parts", but delayed, of the code/assets to be on the server only

Ofcourse, then it wouldn't be thin client anymore, really hammering the point that it's only a copy protection lol

 

[tennishero]

morrowind with radiant AI taken to the next level

fable level combat (fable is the standard for perfection in RPG combat)

and more C&C

you have a recipe for perfection

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

The only thing that really seems far fetched is the radiant quest. If that doesn't sound too good to be true.

Probably another shity variation of what Oblivion had.

There is a difference from AI and quest.

 

[tennishero]

whats really so bad with radiant AI anyway?

its been nearly 5 years and no one else has even come close to trying to advance AI

i remember the first previews of half life 2, and how far it advanced physics and graphics, facial movements

it was fucking awesome.

but it was fucking shit.

like a stupid pretty bimbo they made their shit look good and used AI rountines that an IBM 386 or a NES could probably handle

thats lazy bullshit

or crysis, graphics so far ahead of the curve- years ahead of anything else. i remember how amazed i was with crysis... but it was bullshit as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOyiyf8T ... re=related

no one is even trying to advance AI, maybe because its too hard, but mainly because it doesnt have that "instant gratification" idiots love

creating characters with complex motivations and agendas that are NOT SCRIPTED, are the holy grails of RPG gaming

to truly get lost in an rpg you need to make your mind believe you are in the game. lazy AI can take you out of there

radiant ai wasn't perfect, and it got alot of hate

but fallout 3 had great npc AI

i think bethesda is leading the way towards NPCs that will really feel genuinely human

 

[Jaesun]

Sup. Hey we got this new game thing and I called you up here because I need to say a bunch of li.... shit to hype people up for our new game.

Yes, Skyrim.

Skyrim? Who the fuck came up with that name? Sounds kind of gay.

I think it's actually a location in the lore, I searched the lore forums while browsing for "dragon" and "Lore" and fo

What in the fuck are you talking about? Oh fuck it. We gotta come up with some shit to say.

How about we go off about how we love some old classic games like New Vegas and Bulletsto

Those really aren't classic RPG's sir the

What in the fuck is this RPG shit? Do we make games about the Middle East now?

No sir, RPG's are role playing games. You play a role. Like master chief in Halo.

What the fuck is Halo. Do we own that?

No sir, we did acquire ID software and they ma...

Oh fuck them, this is our new engine they aren't involved with it. Or could we have them like program a small button in the GUI interface and then say the engine was made by them?

That "technically" would be telling the truth sir.

Naw forget it. They probably made some old shit games nobody has ever heard of.

Why DID Zenimax buy them again?

I still ponder that myself Sir. They used to make well done First Person Sh

Right. Then we bought them. Excellent.

Did we ever make any classic RGP's?

RPG's sir. And yeah, some people bitched a long time ago about this daggerford... Daggerfall... That's it.

Was it any good?

Well it came out in 1986 and featured quests, fact

1996? Was it like Super PONG or something?

No, it actually was a very early 3D word and also had

They had 3D games in 1996? Well I'll be damned. Did you play a role in it?

Yes it has quests and fac

Sounds kinda boring actually. Wasnt there a game not too long ago... starts with and L... Lorerape, or Lorefarts?

Maybe you mean Morrowind?

That sounds kind of familiar, was it also a RGP?

Yes, in fact is seemed to be really liked by the community on the forums, until Oblivion.

Wait? Those fucking forum morans had a problem with Oblivion?

Yes, they seemed to think we completely fucked up the lore an

What in the fuck is this lore shit? I think I remember something about it when we bought Fullout.

Fallout sir, and yeah we just did the standard thing and ignored the older game and came up with cool and exciting new

Yeah yeah, fuck this is giving me a headache.. oh wait.....

I have the prefect idea....

 

[deuxhero]

whats really so bad with radiant AI anyway?

its been nearly 5 years and no one else has even come close to trying to advance AI

i remember the first previews of half life 2, and how far it advanced physics and graphics, facial movements

it was fucking awesome.

but it was fucking shit.

like a stupid pretty bimbo they made their shit look good and used AI rountines that an IBM 386 or a NES could probably handle

thats lazy bullshit

or crysis, graphics so far ahead of the curve- years ahead of anything else. i remember how amazed i was with crysis... but it was bullshit as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOyiyf8T ... re=related

no one is even trying to advance AI, maybe because its too hard, but mainly because it doesnt have that "instant gratification" idiots love

creating characters with complex motivations and agendas that are NOT SCRIPTED, are the holy grails of RPG gaming

to truly get lost in an rpg you need to make your mind believe you are in the game. lazy AI can take you out of there

radiant ai wasn't perfect, and it got alot of hate

but fallout 3 had great npc AI

i think bethesda is leading the way towards NPCs that will really feel genuinely human

STALKER has an AI system that acctucally works with patches and does most of what Oblivion does scripted.


Half Life 2's physics engine has made for at least 2 awesome games that make great use of it (Gmod and Dark Messiah)

 

[sser]

I think an RPG set in a fantasy setting should be unwelcoming. If you are a random scrub, and the world's very setting includes monsters and dragons and shit, then you should have to work your way up. I think that is what made Risen really awesome to me, anyway. That game let you get acclimated to the environment by working your way through the general wildlife. If you tangoed with the world's real monsters you got your shit kicked in because you were totally new to the island. Only after obtaining gear, weapons and skill could you fight the real shit. There was a real sense of accomplishment. What they're suggesting is that... the world is gonna be mean and brutal but... we'll hold your hand. I don't think you can do it both ways.

 

[DraQ]

whats really so bad with radiant AI anyway?

its been nearly 5 years and no one else has even come close to trying to advance AI

i remember the first previews of half life 2, and how far it advanced physics and graphics, facial movements

it was fucking awesome.

but it was fucking shit.

like a stupid pretty bimbo they made their shit look good and used AI rountines that an IBM 386 or a NES could probably handle

thats lazy bullshit

or crysis, graphics so far ahead of the curve- years ahead of anything else. i remember how amazed i was with crysis... but it was bullshit as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOyiyf8T ... re=related

no one is even trying to advance AI, maybe because its too hard, but mainly because it doesnt have that "instant gratification" idiots love

creating characters with complex motivations and agendas that are NOT SCRIPTED, are the holy grails of RPG gaming

to truly get lost in an rpg you need to make your mind believe you are in the game. lazy AI can take you out of there

radiant ai wasn't perfect, and it got alot of hate

but fallout 3 had great npc AI

i think bethesda is leading the way towards NPCs that will really feel genuinely human

So very radiant.

So, yeah.