Oh. My. God. The fucked up future of gaming.

[LlamaGod]

Yes, it's bragging rights. But since Xbox Live is an online community, that's no less appropriate than parading around as a level 75 warrior in World of Warcraft.

do some reaserch next time you generalize dipstick(60 is the lvl cap)

also the only people who brag about being lvl 60 are people who bought their accounts

the acheivements are only a thing to use for sizing your opponents up

like say:
this guy
beat Razor in NFSW

on oblivion:

also why do you not make important npcs killable?

i mean killling all the main quest quest givers(except the heir and) and still finishing the game would be one heck of an acheivement

wow fucking sucks, get off my internet

 

[Section8]

Surely you're familiar with the concept of the 'thin edge of the wedge'?

Yes, but this isn't it. This is more like the fourth guy in a DVDA scene. It's not like he's going to significantly fuck things more than they already are, unless he's the straw that breaks the "camel's" "back."

This development needs to be considered in the context that change happens gradually, with (seemingly small) steps like these. It's not just that there is clear content dictation (and to claim its 'feature dictation, not content dictation', is spurious), but also a clear direction as to how the outlook of gamers is to be shaped. Consider how friendly to the adventure genre this development is. If your adventure doesn't feature anything 'collectible', if its a strange, narrative-twisting interactive tale, say the game equivalent of 'Memento', how will you shoe-horn 'achievements' into it? And what of the need of every game to feature Live voice-chat?

The onus is still on the developer. The adventure doesn't have to feature collectibles, it can provide achievements for simply progressing through the narrative. Spamming the player with a pointless interuption is probably the biggest worry for this system.

As for Live chat, I'm assuming it's optional, even if that means not plugging in your headset. It's thoroughly pointless for most games, but not entirely useless in the right circumstance. The integrated IRC in Minions of Mirth, for instance is a great way for new players to communicate and learn the game. It's arguably better than going to gamefaqs and posting "I cant euqip teh ring hlep plz!!111"

Plus, it's a vaguely social layer of interaction, which is probably somewhat healthy, excepting the stereotype of the sort of person who is likely to be online.

Think about how it is that RPGs are now being reviewed like this.
Look at the mindset there. An RPG must feature lots of cool stuff you can pick up early, and huge battles you can get into right off the bat. And it's got to be easy to be teh big RULERMAN. A dominant mindset like that doesn't just happen overnight. It's a the result of an accumulation of changes.

Yes, but I fail to see how this minor imposition on Microsoft's behalf has any significant impact on the already dominant mindset. The changes have already accumulated, and the business end of the wedge is already "all up in dis bitch." It's just another brick in the wall.

As I've said, I don't agree with the principle, but I don't see how it's fucking the industry any more than it's already fucked.

 

[obediah]

like say:
this guy
beat Razor in NFSW

Need for Speed: Morrowind ??? I totally missed that expansion. Is it swoop racer crap?

 

[Greatatlantic]

Its one thing for Microsoft to enable this feature, and if it serves as advertising for the game's that do use it, then it may be worth their while. But to make it Mandatory? To say every game must have achievements no matter how little sense it makes for a game? If I'm playing Thief3, and pick somebody's pocket... the last thing I want is some popup to appear telling me I now have stolen 10,000 gold.

Obviously, I haven't seen this feature in action, but if its a way to get the name of a game in somebody's profile thats advertisment. If having more achievements makes it more noticeable, then the suits have a reason to have as many of these achievements as possible. To say its no different then having a max level MMO character(I think 75 is the limit for FFXI, are you hiding something MSFD?) isn't entirely true. Its one thing to have braggarts, its another to instituitionalize it.

I guess there are different ways of looking at it. It probably doesn't spell the death of gaming any more then console manufacturers already are in a position to do. Then there is the idea of whether it is a good feature to have in the first place. I don't think so. As it is, people will go out of their way to do every little thing a game offers. Now that there is bragging rights to winning your chocobo race in under 30 seconds... I shudder at the thought. Just another reason for me to stay away from consoles.

 

[HanoverF]

Seems like a simple solution is to have one big honking 'Achievment'

"You have bought Oblivion!"
"A Winner is You!"

 

[Kuato]

Every Xbox 360 game has achievements, and has to. Oblivion, being on the Xbox 360, of course will have achievements too.

Yes, it's bragging rights. But since Xbox Live is an online community, that's no less appropriate than parading around as a level 75 warrior in World of Warcraft.

Is Microsoft dictating content? Heck no. You have to have achievements, but they have no say as to what those achievements have to be awarded for. And no, there are no achievements awarded for the PC version -- achievements are an Xbox Live thing.

The gig is finnaly up I absolutely am not getting an Xbox 360 , achievements r teh GEH est, because I do not feel the need to embarrass myself by going online to brag about how many hours I have been wasting on a mindless single player treadmill RPG.

 

[Imbecile]

The gig is finnaly up I absolutely am not getting an Xbox 360 , achievements r teh GEH est, because I do not feel the need to embarrass myself by going online to brag about how many hours I have been wasting on a mindless single player treadmill RPG.

Well thats fine. But if you plan not to get a 360 on the basis of an optional extra, odds are you had your mind made up in the first place. A not uncommon phenomenon.

 

[damaged_drone]

interesting(?) fact: bill gates has given hundreds of millions more dollars than u to fight disease and poverty in the third world. (or so i read)

but no absolutely! achievements...im just outraged at micro$oft. fuck them.

fingers crossed on dumbfuck status. (codex needs kiss smiley, get on it people)

 

[DarkSign]

I see both sides of this argument. Technically the achievements are just acknowledging stuff you've already done - but thats in Oblvion. In other games, it would take a lot of convincing that a developer who hadnt planned on overt achievment awards didnt change their game based on M$' bidding. And then that they didnt alter the game around giving those achievements more importance in the game.

TF, surely you arent super surprised by this are you? It's more outrage, right?

 

[Twinfalls]

But to make it Mandatory? To say every game must have achievements no matter how little sense it makes for a game?

Its one thing to have braggarts, its another to institutionalize it.

its another to institutionalize it.

@DS - I tend to continue to be surprised at how brazen these things are, then I notice the reaction and it's all like 'meh' as can be seen here, so I go back a notch in surprise, and up a notch in despair.

 

[Zomg]

Count me in on Section8's "brick in the wall" sentiment. The "rare hit" megabudget structure of the game industry is not going to reform into anything we'd like without a crash, anyway. In fact, this kind of childish stuff is almost on our side, because in infantilizing video games they're showing a pathological focus on children and meathead gamers and narrowing their audience, although they're undoubtably threatening to push video games into the same cultural world of shit that that comic books are in.

 

[DarkSign]

BTW can that other guy change his avatar? Pweeese?

 

[Tintin]

If your adventure doesn't feature anything 'collectible', if its a strange, narrative-twisting interactive tale, say the game equivalent of 'Memento', how will you shoe-horn 'achievements' into it?

MFSD indicates that there could be Achievements for things like finishing the Main Quest and joining guilds. All it seems to be is an addition of score which counts things you've done. Though I think your example is fairly stupid as there's little chance an adventure game will find it's way onto the X360, you could easily just put an Achievement for when the player finishes a chapter or plot segment. Achievements don't sound like they change anything, just add some barely noticeable thing on (unnoticeable, since nobody here is going to be playing Oblivion on the X360)

To quote the words of some guy on TES boards:

"They managed to take the Xbox Live achievements of Oblivion and turn it into Microsofts plot of world domination."

 

[OverrideB1]

"They managed to take the Xbox Live achievements of Oblivion and turn it into Microsofts plot of world domination."

Shhhh, if Bill Gates gets wind that we know of their secret plans for world domination we're all royally screwed.

 

[Drakron]

Its a shitty plan since Live service is not even avaible in all countries.

With lead me to look at it as a REALLY stupid PoS since what is the fucking point of it recording something only people in my house could look like by turning the console on and look at the profile?

 

[MINIGUNWIELDER]

little chance an adventure game will find it's way onto the X360

already has

 

[Tintin]

And which is that?

 

[Stargazey]

What does it matter if there are stat rankings, if you don't play on XBOX360?

Play on PC, no problem, yeah ... ?

 

[whitemithrandir]

And which is that?

Finding a place that actually sells the Xbox 360 and beating the long line of overnight campers to get it is certainly an adventure in itself.

 

[LlamaGod]

why did people buy xbox 360 launch day, anyways?

it's not like there is any good games for it for launch (not like xbox games are good anyways, lawls), they all come out way later.

so why the hell are people shooting each other for it?

or for any system that comes out?

the games wont be going anywhere, anyways

 

[whitemithrandir]

why did people buy xbox 360 launch day, anyways?

I don't understand it myself. It's going to be cheaper and easier a few months down the road anyway, so why can't people just wait?

 

[kingcomrade]

BECUZ IST TEH NEW HOTNEES! OMG!

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

why did people buy xbox 360 launch day, anyways?

Because lonely nerds couldn't hold out much longer to stick their small penises into something.

 

[Drakron]

MS did a marketing compain and created a shortage ... people run to the store to get one before they run out.

Its actually easy to get a Xbox 360 ... in Japan (were sales were even lower that Xbox launch).

The only console I got "at launch" (well sort off, it was within the 4 months window) is my DS, one of the 13 million that have been sold so far ... eat that PSP (and I like to see Xbox 360 selling 13 million units within a year ... ha ha).

 

[Jason]

So, RP, what are you doing later tonight? Wanna come over and see my etchings?