On the Familiarity of Settings

[Voodoo Daddy]

I like traditional settings. So what? Planescape didn't really do anything for me. I didn't enjoy the world or the characters. I did enjoy how the story presented itself and the amount of text. The whole chaste succubus just made me roll my eyes - but the psychic rats I found interesting. I thought Arcanum's setting was great because it presented a question I always wanted to see presented in a down to earth (well, as down to earth as fantasy can get) way.

Concerning Morrowind, I never understood what "original" ppl see in its setting. Sure, some of the architecture is fucked up, but other than that, it's the same old "not nice dark elves" stuff. In Arena and Daggerfall they were just a Drizzt cash-on completely with white hair and red eyes, Morrowind expanded on them a bit but still the generic Underdark roots are telling.

Just focusing on the Dark Elves...

Appearance - You can customize your looks in the game.

Arena - Races were hardly even covered. You can't say they were Drizzt knock offs except in looks.

Daggerfall - The books on the Dark Elves were anything BUT drow-like. Also, the game took place in High Rock and Hammerfell and the DElves weren't even represented.

Conclusion - You didn't play Arena and Daggerfall, nor did you bother to read anything about them either.

 

[Lesifoere]

Actually, some people think GRR Martin is a great literature. And Spakowski for that matter.

They aren't great literature. More fun than Tolkien, though, thanks. :D

You had to mention your hate for Tolkien, you just had to. You have a psychological trauma or something ? Your parents molested you reading Tolkien when you was a child ?

So do you think the entirety of the Codex were molested by Bethesda and Bioware? The NMA folk must've been thoroughly violated in particular. *tear*

 

[kris]

Something really different is great because it is very stimulating. the problem if of course that some things may have to be explained to much which may be a detriment. while I'd love to see very different games I like "my model" best.

That is a setting that start out familiar (or with characters that is familiar) and then as the story is told more fantastic things happen and is seen and very different characters is met.

 

[Gragt]

You can never state your disdain for Tolkien enough.

 

[nomask7]

I prefer the setting to be not overhanded, where alot of time would be spent simply on explaining what a particular race is or what the history of that entire world is.

Unfamiliar settings are okay, but an entire game based on simply explaining what the world of the game is like would be too much.

Geneforge is a good example of a setting.

An amendment to my rule of thumb:

The setting should be unfamiliar and stay unfamiliar (MotB, the last part of HotU). In reality, games often have more than one setting (HotU, MotB), and I would even say that each area in MotB has its own setting. Familiar and unfamiliar settings within-game can both be used and fused into a satisfying whole. In fact, I would say that even the Underdark areas of HotU contained some unfamiliar settings.... In some cases, such fusions may be preferable to game worlds where the setting of every area is unfamiliar, because such fusions create contrast and make the unfamiliar seem more unfamiliar.

 

[Lesifoere]

In some cases, such fusions may be preferable to game worlds where the setting of every area is unfamiliar, because such fusions create contrast and make the unfamiliar seem more unfamiliar.

An excellent point.

 

[denizsi]

Planescape didn't really do anything for me.

The question is: what have you done for Planescape? :horatiocain:

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

I freed it from the shackles of the forsaken shelves in Circuit City.

 

[mondblut]

Appearance - You can customize your looks in the game.

Arena - Races were hardly even covered. You can't say they were Drizzt knock offs except in looks.

Daggerfall - The books on the Dark Elves were anything BUT drow-like. Also, the game took place in High Rock and Hammerfell and the DElves weren't even represented.

Oh, nevermind they are called "dark elves", have dark grey to black skin and red eyes. Nevermind they have a penchant for racial supremacy, slavery and demon worship. THEY ARE NOT AT ALL LIKE DROW, NO SIRRAH!

Conclusion - You didn't play Arena and Daggerfall, nor did you bother to read anything about them either.

As a matter of fact, I don't even own a computer, let alone ever played any computer game. Happy? Now run along, not-at-all-Drizzt-fanboy.

 

[nomask7]

In some cases, such fusions may be preferable to game worlds where the setting of every area is unfamiliar, because such fusions create contrast and make the unfamiliar seem more unfamiliar.

An excellent point.

I suppose the familiar would then have to be the dominant element, or at least the starting point. Otherwise, it would be defamiliarized by the framework, wouldn't it? An elven city (in the style of Lothlórien) in Fallout? What are the elves doing in post-apocalyptic wasteland? What are all these trees doing there?!

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

Appearance - You can customize your looks in the game.

Arena - Races were hardly even covered. You can't say they were Drizzt knock offs except in looks.

Daggerfall - The books on the Dark Elves were anything BUT drow-like. Also, the game took place in High Rock and Hammerfell and the DElves weren't even represented.

Oh, nevermind they are called "dark elves", have dark grey to black skin and red eyes. Nevermind they have a penchant for racial supremacy, slavery and demon worship. THEY ARE NOT AT ALL LIKE DROW, NO SIRRAH!

Conclusion - You didn't play Arena and Daggerfall, nor did you bother to read anything about them either.

As a matter of fact, I don't even own a computer, let alone ever played any computer game. Happy? Now run along, not-at-all-Drizzt-fanboy.

 

[Crispy]

Just. Uh. Wow.

I thought this was a mannequin until I looked a little further.

LARP ALERT!!

I won an award for "Most Attention to Detail" in the Journeyman Division at the Arisia 2007 Masquerade for my Drizzt Do'Urden costume. I made the pants, vest, belt, pouch and scimitars.

:shock:

 

[bhlaab]

Al Ju'Olsen

 

[Ahzaruuk]

In some cases, such fusions may be preferable to game worlds where the setting of every area is unfamiliar, because such fusions create contrast and make the unfamiliar seem more unfamiliar.

An excellent point.

I suppose the familiar would then have to be the dominant element, or at least the starting point. Otherwise, it would be defamiliarized by the framework, wouldn't it? An elven city (in the style of Lothlórien) in Fallout? What are the elves doing in post-apocalyptic wasteland? What are all these trees doing there?!

Yeah, you paint the picture of familiarity then do the OH, BY THE WAY manoeuvre.


Certainly grabs more attention than just starting out batshit crazy then having to explain everything. Especially if your writers have a tendency to start going into the Histories of every single piece of Lawn furniture a la Tolkien

 

[DraQ]

"Races" could easily be constituted of humans from radically different cultures, you don't really need the elvz & dorfs because they're already so extremely humanoid they might as well BE humans with a different flavor. They ain't Alien enough to justify being another species in the first place, it's gotten a bit too stale really.

Or, you can go in the other direction and try to invent races and cultures that make sense and aren't cloned humans.

In some cases, such fusions may be preferable to game worlds where the setting of every area is unfamiliar, because such fusions create contrast and make the unfamiliar seem more unfamiliar.

An excellent point.

I suppose the familiar would then have to be the dominant element, or at least the starting point. Otherwise, it would be defamiliarized by the framework, wouldn't it? An elven city (in the style of Lothlórien) in Fallout? What are the elves doing in post-apocalyptic wasteland? What are all these trees doing there?!

An important problem with such fussion is that a setting must maintain internal consistency or at least an internal logic of some kind. This is a thing that separates a good and intriguing setting from "we did it for lulz" heap of unrelated 'cool' ideas.

 

[BearBomber]

I think that RPGs games need no fantasy setting. There are are many setting based on history that were never done in an RPG. For example ancient Mesopotamia. More thatn that you don't have to create any new races, weapons or architecture, the reference material just lie in the library and waits to be uses.

 

[denizsi]

Why waste time researching dusty books when you can just make shit up?

 

[Crispy]

Why waste time reading when you can just LARP your way through it?

ixfayed.

 

[BearBomber]

Why waste time researching dusty books when you can just make shit up?

Because quality of the world/time ratio is better when you use existing setting in the game, than when you create the new one.

 

[denizsi]

It was sarcastic rhetoric, not a real question. Codex these days...

 

[nomask7]

Why waste time researching dusty books when you can just make shit up?

Because quality of the world/time ratio is better when you use existing setting in the game, than when you create the new one.

Why yes! Not more imagination but less is what we need. Damned be MotB! And hail Titan Quest!

 

[The Feral Kid]

For example ancient Mesopotamia.

I browsed the thread with the purpose to post about an rpg set in ancient Mesopotamia. But the truth is, setting itself isn't as important as the treatment of it is. That's why I don't have problem with existing fantasy licenses and settings as long as they're handled properly and respect the lore by providing a rich and detailed gameworld, and they're not merely used as a means to attract an existing fanbase.

 

[BearBomber]

Why waste time researching dusty books when you can just make shit up?

Because quality of the world/time ratio is better when you use existing setting in the game, than when you create the new one.

Why yes! Not more imagination but less is what we need. Damned be MotB! And hail Titan Quest!

Titan Quest was a Diablo clone setted in the fantasy world with ancient Greece theme, no matter how was it called. I mean real ancient Greece, where philosophers are ready to mind-rape you any time, nazis from Sparta are fighting for the domination over other cities, slaves are everywhere and gays are norm.

 

[JarlFrank]

Why waste time researching dusty books when you can just make shit up?

Because quality of the world/time ratio is better when you use existing setting in the game, than when you create the new one.

Why yes! Not more imagination but less is what we need. Damned be MotB! And hail Titan Quest!

Fact is, some historical settings (with some mythological elements included) have the potential to be a LOT more creative and interesting than yet another standard Sword Coast game. MotB was good, but the NWN2 OC was your standard been-there-done-that fantasy setting that you've played through for countless times already. Some historical settings could be incredibly refreshing. Mesopotamia, Ancient Germany and Gaul, Ancient China, Aztecs... lots of potential there, and you can include mythology into these settings easily.

I'd rather have someone make a clone of history/mythology than yet another clone of Tolkien.

 

[mondblut]

providing a rich and detailed gameworld

Exactly. A rich and detailed gameworld, something the novelty settings for one-time game slapped together by one designer in 3 months in between writing design docs can't have by definition.