Decline On why boss combat is shit (and why your favorite Soulslike sucks).

[PorkyThePaladin]

False dichotomy, you can have both and not having one doesn't mean you'll do the other.

You're making the classic mistake of thinking that "thinking for yourself" will necessarily lead to something good, even though it might lead you to something retarded, which is why conventions exist. This is how intellectuals sniff their own farts until they decide that the universe started when nothing exploded into everything, how sociologists decided that math is racist, and how you sniffed your own sharts until you decided that the reason your RPGs aren't better is because they don't get enough inspiration from ARMA.

Nice try, dolt jr. And RPGs could definitely draw a lot of inspiration from ARMA combat, as unlike most RPG combat, it's deep, complex, and fun.

This is a relative matter. And your beliefs are not obvious to anybody but yourself. Look at the state of this thread.

Nope, it's really not. Big bosses in games are patently juvenile and moronic. If you assume that roughly half the population has double digit IQ, that explains the breakdown of this thread.

Most people are horrifically stupid, as I've said elsewhere. And as I've also said, pinning officious language to your beliefs does not make them objective. It does make you look like a moron with a fetishistic appreciation of language.

And as I have said elsewhere, bosses are juvenile and moronic.

"as I have said elsewhere". someone pointed out to me that people on this site are already started to post like me, didn't see it until here.

When I refer to existing posts I'm referring people to prior elaborations to help understand my line of thinking. But you haven't expressed any previous thoughts that lead into where you're going. Do you believe that having said something before makes the thought more powerful?

Actually that was a play on words, but clearly, much like the rest of this thread, it went over your head.

It also encapsulates the ability to distinguish simple and self-obvious truths.

This is absurd.

In the land of the idiotic, the absurd is king.

They went from bosses being a puzzle-like change of pace thing that you had to solve (Demon Souls), to combat change of pace thing that were challenging to defeat compared to regular mobs (Dark Souls) to being 90% of the game by Dark Souls 3/Elden Ring/Sekiro.

You haven't explained why either thing is good or bad. And the "bosses" are not 90% of the latter games unless you are absolutely abysmal at them, probably due to a failure to appreciate what you're meant to be doing. If you consider options the game explicitly gives you "cheating" then you're just being obstinate, if not outright petulant.

Sure I did. You are just choosing to ignore my detailed and excellent, dare I say, explanations.

You say, as you ignore most of the text you are quoting.

Cause you already said all of this 20 times, and I refuted it soundly 19 times ago.

All I hear is a lot of whining about refusing to accept a fairly obvious statement, along the lines of the sky being blue.

I think it's fairly obvious that you are a moderately functional autistic.

Moderately functional autistic what?

If you don't understand the difference between actual combat mechanics and cheating mechanics, you are beyond help, dawg. Might as well start playing Sims and transition.

Please, do tell me about these cheating mechanics. Give me some examples.

Literally every single way in which most people beat Elden Ring: summoning NPCs/players to help fight bosses, using cheese strategies like bleeding enchantments on weapons, stupid weapon arts, etc.

Could you explain what "cheating" is? Don't give examples. Explain the difference between cheating and not cheating.

Are you trying to tire me out with your silly arguments? 2 + 2 = 4. Can you explain what 2 is? Ehh, no.

 

[Odoryuk]

Literally every single way in which most people beat Elden Ring: summoning NPCs/players to help fight bosses, using cheese strategies like bleeding enchantments on weapons, stupid weapon arts, etc.

These things cannot be considered cheating, as it all was added by the developers for players to use.
It reminds me of hardcore Sekiro fans who, when faced with notion that FS's action RPGs provide a lot of freedom in customising a playstyle, declared that these systems were introduced simply as a way to make their games easier, and nothing more, thus implying that Sekiro is a superior game because of that.
Such reductionism is no way to play. It is no way to live.

 

[TedNugent]

To put it another way: actual real world combat systems are fascinating, whether we talk about historical sword fighting, archery, martial arts, boxing or special ops. That's because they involve combatants with roughly similar abilities, and thus become high speed games of chess. A boxer keeps throwing out feints, watching his opponent react, then on the basis of this reaction, anticipates where to throw his next punch in advance of the opponent's movement. A swordfighter chains a parry into an attack, at the same time moving his feet to get out of the way of the response.

lol



In all serious though, these games were filthy



Honestly, what I think is actually bad about Dark Souls is the fact that it is based around dive rolls, meaning there is little nuance, and mostly about timing. I'm not sure if they have invincibility frames, but that is definitely a common thing in this type of mechanic, meaning again there is nothing more than timing your button press, very reductionist. I don't like "dodge" buttons, even worse, invulnerability frame "roll" buttons. Very simple mechanic, very simple encounters that must have transparent tells or patterns to exploit and therefore win. Correct that there is so much more nuance available in real time combat systems that is glossed over or not even touched upon in favor of giving you a dodge button with iframes. In worst form you have button quicktime mechanic literally showing you dance dance revolution style press A to avoid dead. Now press B Simon Says. Etc.

None of the games listed in OP are RPGs.

That being said, are dragons "bosses" in D&D? Obviously they're not going to have the same stats as any human or demihuman opponent you are going to face. Or should they? Porky, are you saying that you prefer a "level playing field" in your games?

Dare I ask, do you want... level scaling?!?

Dragons are gay fantasy bullshit for manchildren

How does something twice the size of an elephant fly

 

[HeatEXTEND]

I think it's fairly obvious that you are a moderately functional autistic.

Moderately functional autistic what?

Perfect

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Nobody likes fighting games though, beyond some juvenile retards.

You're just pretending to be retarded, right?

Truth hurts.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Literally every single way in which most people beat Elden Ring: summoning NPCs/players to help fight bosses, using cheese strategies like bleeding enchantments on weapons, stupid weapon arts, etc.

These things cannot be considered cheating, as it all was added by the developers for players to use.
It reminds me of hardcore Sekiro fans who, when faced with notion that FS's action RPGs provide a lot of freedom in customising a playstyle, declared that these systems were introduced simply as a way to make their games easier, and nothing more, thus implying that Sekiro is a superior game because of that.
Such reductionism is no way to play. It is no way to live.

Sure they can, because they were a really dumb way to bypass a core combat combat system that was targeted at young people with excellent reflexes, and thus unattainable to the average gamer. When your bosses have feints followed by 3 frame attacks, how many people will be able to time that parry or roll? So instead everyone used the cheese I mentioned before. It's not cheating in the sense that you are not playing the game as intended, but it is cheating in the sense that you are cheating yourself, by playing a shitty game and having to resort to such bullshit.

Sekiro, btw, has a much better combat system than DaS/ER, although not as good as Warband/KCD. It still has bosses and all that retardation, but at least on a basic level, the blocking is technique and not reflex based. So you don't need to time your parry to the same fraction of the second as the attack is about to connect, which is a really retarded way of doing it.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Here is a great example of the kind of shitty "boss" design I am talking about in this thread:



This guy (Tachibana Munishige) is an optional boss, and at first glance, he is a samurai, and fights using historical techniques like Iaido Quickdraw slash, etc. So you think, oh cool, maybe I can have a fun fight against him, using actual technique.

Instead, he almost immediately resorts to pure retardation. The Iaido draw is basically just drawing your katana from its scabbard and immediately attacking in the same motion. There is no reason on earth why such an attack should not be blockable/parryable. And yet it's not in this fight, because it suddenly becomes magic shit. So now you gotta dodge it instead. Completely arbitrary bullshit, where you are the dog, and the developers point out the hoops to jump through, instead of using, you know, comprehensive combat logic.

Then, he has some other other "interesting" attacks for a samurai. Like he can summon a magic thunderball that will attack you. Or he can twirl around like a lightning imbued helicopter. His stamina usage is absolutely retarded, you can get him down to no stamina, but the next moment he magically recovers all of it. And attacks you 10 times in a row. And of course he has about 20-30 times your health. And most of his attacks have no windups, so you have to kinda guess when he will attack based on his general patterns.

So again, no actual combat technique is possible to apply, you just gotta "learn" what to do for each of his bullshit attacks by fighting and dying a bunch of times. Fun stuff, right? Right?

 

[Odoryuk]

but it is cheating in the sense that you are cheating yourself, by playing a shitty game and having to resort to such bullshit.

You sound like these people who never level up Vitality, die from a first hit of a boss and think this is normal. Surprisingly a large amount of people are like that, who bought into the "hardcore difficulty" game.

People don't spend hundreds of hours in a shitty game, trying different builds and playstyles. Unless there's gambling involved.