Game News Pathfinder: Kingmaker Kickstarter Update #44: Camping System in Action

[Kaivokz]

Did not play it. Too edgy and tries too hard.

Besides What I wrote above about preferring less trash mobs and less loot magic pinatas , I also generally prefer 'simple' and more grounded adventures where you are not 'saving the world' or some special 'chosen one', or the offspring of a god; but more akin to a mercenary, or involved with local conflict, small wars, local political intrigue or hired to explore some faraway place for a specific purpose and not saving the entire universe but more like accomplishing a task for somebody who wants to increase their wealth or power or whatever.

Its for this reason that I often will play the beginning of many RPG's but around the 70% mark I find myself not interested anymore because I have magic everything and do 686 damage when I hit.

I prefer the levels 1-10 to put it in DnD terms, and tend to become less interested the higher the levels go.

Its why I never played Baldurs gate throne of Baal, and found it hard to even want to finish Baldurs gate II..

Man, some people really get into not being chosen or special. Strive for mediocrity, eh?

Interesting stories are about interesting people. Throw your average nobody into the position of a mercenary and they're probably going to die. Throw an above-average, competent, person into the position of a mercenary involved with a local conflict or small war and odds are they'll die, too. Face it: All main characters in stories are 'chosen ones'. The real "non-special, non-chosen-normal" people--the brother who was killed, the friend who died fighting beside them, the tragic past and the losses accrued along the way--THOSE are not main characters in stories. If you understand that, why do you care if they're "chosen" because they don't die (at least long enough to entertain you), either due to extreme luck or skill, or if they're chosen because they have some power that swings the probability of their death in the other direction?

Edit- That's not to say you shouldn't prefer stories about local conflicts or characters with more humble accomplishments. I just don't buy the whole 'can't be the special chosen one' argument.

 

[ArchAngel]

Did not play it. Too edgy and tries too hard.

Besides What I wrote above about preferring less trash mobs and less loot magic pinatas , I also generally prefer 'simple' and more grounded adventures where you are not 'saving the world' or some special 'chosen one', or the offspring of a god; but more akin to a mercenary, or involved with local conflict, small wars, local political intrigue or hired to explore some faraway place for a specific purpose and not saving the entire universe but more like accomplishing a task for somebody who wants to increase their wealth or power or whatever.

Its for this reason that I often will play the beginning of many RPG's but around the 70% mark I find myself not interested anymore because I have magic everything and do 686 damage when I hit.

I prefer the levels 1-10 to put it in DnD terms, and tend to become less interested the higher the levels go.

Its why I never played Baldurs gate throne of Baal, and found it hard to even want to finish Baldurs gate II..

Man, some people really get into not being chosen or special. Strive for mediocrity, eh?

Interesting stories are about interesting people. Throw your average nobody into the position of a mercenary and they're probably going to die. Throw an above-average, competent, person into the position of a mercenary involved with a local conflict or small war and odds are they'll die, too. Face it: All main characters in stories are 'chosen ones'. The real "non-special, non-chosen-normal" people--the brother who was killed, the friend who died fighting beside them, the tragic past and the losses accrued along the way--THOSE are not main characters in stories. If you understand that, why do you care if they're "chosen" because they don't die (at least long enough to entertain you), either due to extreme luck or skill, or if they're chosen because they have some power that swings the probability of their death in the other direction?

Edit- That's not to say you shouldn't prefer stories about local conflicts or characters with more humble accomplishments. I just don't buy the whole 'can't be the special chosen one' argument.

Because stories about chosen ones are equal to reading a story about a son/daughter of a rich or powerful man accomplishing something great. Yea their accomplishment is cool and all but you have to wonder if they would be able to do that if they were not from that family/chosen one.
But a story about a nobody that reached above his class/station/caste and accomplished something amazing, that is a story that more people will like.

 

[Kaivokz]

Did not play it. Too edgy and tries too hard.

Besides What I wrote above about preferring less trash mobs and less loot magic pinatas , I also generally prefer 'simple' and more grounded adventures where you are not 'saving the world' or some special 'chosen one', or the offspring of a god; but more akin to a mercenary, or involved with local conflict, small wars, local political intrigue or hired to explore some faraway place for a specific purpose and not saving the entire universe but more like accomplishing a task for somebody who wants to increase their wealth or power or whatever.

Its for this reason that I often will play the beginning of many RPG's but around the 70% mark I find myself not interested anymore because I have magic everything and do 686 damage when I hit.

I prefer the levels 1-10 to put it in DnD terms, and tend to become less interested the higher the levels go.

Its why I never played Baldurs gate throne of Baal, and found it hard to even want to finish Baldurs gate II..

Man, some people really get into not being chosen or special. Strive for mediocrity, eh?

Interesting stories are about interesting people. Throw your average nobody into the position of a mercenary and they're probably going to die. Throw an above-average, competent, person into the position of a mercenary involved with a local conflict or small war and odds are they'll die, too. Face it: All main characters in stories are 'chosen ones'. The real "non-special, non-chosen-normal" people--the brother who was killed, the friend who died fighting beside them, the tragic past and the losses accrued along the way--THOSE are not main characters in stories. If you understand that, why do you care if they're "chosen" because they don't die (at least long enough to entertain you), either due to extreme luck or skill, or if they're chosen because they have some power that swings the probability of their death in the other direction?

Edit- That's not to say you shouldn't prefer stories about local conflicts or characters with more humble accomplishments. I just don't buy the whole 'can't be the special chosen one' argument.

Because stories about chosen ones are equal to reading a story about a son/daughter of a rich or powerful man accomplishing something great. Yea their accomplishment is cool and all but you have to wonder if they would be able to do that if they were not from that family/chosen one.
But a story about a nobody that reached above his class/station/caste and accomplished something amazing, that is a story that more people will like.

A nobody who reaches above his lot in life and succeeds, either in whole or in part, is by definition special.

They have some advantage—biological superiority; a keen, calculating mind; intense training; a charismatic nature—that allows them to rise above their station and achieve something amazing. And if they don’t, they’ve merely gotten lucky at every turn to have done something that other nobodies couldn’t have. Which is my point: if any average merc could achieve what the main character of a story could, it just isn’t very compelling. It is THIS merc, in this place and at this time. It’s a trope for the tough protagonist to say, “it was nothing special” “anyone would have done the same” “it’s just part of the job, ma’am.” Humility. Doesn’t mean it’s true.

Maybe it is possible to write a compelling cop story about routine traffic stops or a busywork detective novel without some grander mystery or an insightful, gifted detective, but I don’t think that’s what people mean when they say “I don’t want to be a special chosen one”—which is why I think it’s a misnomer. Maybe people want to feel like they have earned their own strength rather than having it thrust upon them by plot, but if you’re doing interesting, engaging things, you’re probably an interesting and “special” person. Otherwise you are one of the ordinary people doing ordinary things. Populating the fictional world in which our protagonist(s) reside.

 

[ArchAngel]

Did not play it. Too edgy and tries too hard.

Besides What I wrote above about preferring less trash mobs and less loot magic pinatas , I also generally prefer 'simple' and more grounded adventures where you are not 'saving the world' or some special 'chosen one', or the offspring of a god; but more akin to a mercenary, or involved with local conflict, small wars, local political intrigue or hired to explore some faraway place for a specific purpose and not saving the entire universe but more like accomplishing a task for somebody who wants to increase their wealth or power or whatever.

Its for this reason that I often will play the beginning of many RPG's but around the 70% mark I find myself not interested anymore because I have magic everything and do 686 damage when I hit.

I prefer the levels 1-10 to put it in DnD terms, and tend to become less interested the higher the levels go.

Its why I never played Baldurs gate throne of Baal, and found it hard to even want to finish Baldurs gate II..

Man, some people really get into not being chosen or special. Strive for mediocrity, eh?

Interesting stories are about interesting people. Throw your average nobody into the position of a mercenary and they're probably going to die. Throw an above-average, competent, person into the position of a mercenary involved with a local conflict or small war and odds are they'll die, too. Face it: All main characters in stories are 'chosen ones'. The real "non-special, non-chosen-normal" people--the brother who was killed, the friend who died fighting beside them, the tragic past and the losses accrued along the way--THOSE are not main characters in stories. If you understand that, why do you care if they're "chosen" because they don't die (at least long enough to entertain you), either due to extreme luck or skill, or if they're chosen because they have some power that swings the probability of their death in the other direction?

Edit- That's not to say you shouldn't prefer stories about local conflicts or characters with more humble accomplishments. I just don't buy the whole 'can't be the special chosen one' argument.

Because stories about chosen ones are equal to reading a story about a son/daughter of a rich or powerful man accomplishing something great. Yea their accomplishment is cool and all but you have to wonder if they would be able to do that if they were not from that family/chosen one.
But a story about a nobody that reached above his class/station/caste and accomplished something amazing, that is a story that more people will like.

A nobody who reaches above his lot in life and succeeds, either in whole or in part, is by definition special.

They have some advantage—biological superiority; a keen, calculating mind; intense training; a charismatic nature—that allows them to rise above their station and achieve something amazing. And if they don’t, they’ve merely gotten lucky at every turn to have done something that other nobodies couldn’t have. Which is my point: if any average merc could achieve what the main character of a story could, it just isn’t very compelling. It is THIS merc, in this place and at this time. It’s a trope for the tough protagonist to say, “it was nothing special” “anyone would have done the same” “it’s just part of the job, ma’am.” Humility. Doesn’t mean it’s true.

Maybe it is possible to write a compelling cop story about routine traffic stops or a busywork detective novel without some grander mystery or an insightful, gifted detective, but I don’t think that’s what people mean when they say “I don’t want to be a special chosen one”—which is why I think it’s a misnomer. Maybe people want to feel like they have earned their own strength rather than having it thrust upon them by plot, but if you’re doing interesting, engaging things, you’re probably an interesting and “special” person. Otherwise you are one of the ordinary people doing ordinary things. Populating the fictional world in which our protagonist(s) reside.

There are many stories about "normal" people that when trust into abnormal situation rise above it. This is what is compelling.
On the other hand people love Batman and being a kid of a richest guy in the city and being born with genius level intelligence makes you more than "normal" from the start.

I would say Die Hard movies (at least 1 and 2) are good example of a "normal" guy doing heroic things and accomplishing way more than anyone would expect or hope for.

A terrible example are new Star Wars movies where Ray is born with superhuman abilities and without training manages to use them to best everyone without failing once.

 

[Darkzone]

A nobody who reaches above his lot in life and succeeds, either in whole or in part, is by definition special.

They have some advantage—biological superiority; a keen, calculating mind; intense training; a charismatic nature—that allows them to rise above their station and achieve something amazing. And if they don’t, they’ve merely gotten lucky at every turn to have done something that other nobodies couldn’t have. Which is my point: if any average merc could achieve what the main character of a story could, it just isn’t very compelling. It is THIS merc, in this place and at this time. It’s a trope for the tough protagonist to say, “it was nothing special” “anyone would have done the same” “it’s just part of the job, ma’am.” Humility. Doesn’t mean it’s true.

There is also the possibility of applying knowledge from different field of expertise or changes of variables towards an individual optimum. A change of the environment towards a known environment for the Hero and an unknown for the villains can be also very helpful like in film of Apocalypto.

I would say Die Hard movies (at least 1 and 2) are good example of a "normal" guy doing heroic things and accomplishing way more than anyone would expect or hope for.

John McClane was a cop and therefore he was prepared for a situation where he would use a weapon and force. In Die Hard 1 it is obvious that he has also a lot of luck, but his most useful skill is the will to survive and to do extremes to achieve it, without giving up.

A terrible example are new Star Wars movies where Ray is born with superhuman abilities and without training manages to use them to best everyone without failing once.

And that it is why i don't watch SJW films. Normally i would state that this is the cause of feminism, but in this case it was already done in the prequels.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Did not play it. Too edgy and tries too hard.

Besides What I wrote above about preferring less trash mobs and less loot magic pinatas , I also generally prefer 'simple' and more grounded adventures where you are not 'saving the world' or some special 'chosen one', or the offspring of a god; but more akin to a mercenary, or involved with local conflict, small wars, local political intrigue or hired to explore some faraway place for a specific purpose and not saving the entire universe but more like accomplishing a task for somebody who wants to increase their wealth or power or whatever.

Its for this reason that I often will play the beginning of many RPG's but around the 70% mark I find myself not interested anymore because I have magic everything and do 686 damage when I hit.

I prefer the levels 1-10 to put it in DnD terms, and tend to become less interested the higher the levels go.

Its why I never played Baldurs gate throne of Baal, and found it hard to even want to finish Baldurs gate II..

Man, some people really get into not being chosen or special. Strive for mediocrity, eh?

Interesting stories are about interesting people. Throw your average nobody into the position of a mercenary and they're probably going to die. Throw an above-average, competent, person into the position of a mercenary involved with a local conflict or small war and odds are they'll die, too. Face it: All main characters in stories are 'chosen ones'. The real "non-special, non-chosen-normal" people--the brother who was killed, the friend who died fighting beside them, the tragic past and the losses accrued along the way--THOSE are not main characters in stories. If you understand that, why do you care if they're "chosen" because they don't die (at least long enough to entertain you), either due to extreme luck or skill, or if they're chosen because they have some power that swings the probability of their death in the other direction?

Edit- That's not to say you shouldn't prefer stories about local conflicts or characters with more humble accomplishments. I just don't buy the whole 'can't be the special chosen one' argument.

I enjoyed band of brothers series on HBO as it followed otherwise 'normal' people put in spectacular circumstances during an momentous time in history. One might argue the allies 'saved the world' (debatable), but the men in Easy Company were for all intensive purposes 'normal' or maybe slightly above normal people who played important parts in a larger story and events. Basically I could identify with the people in the show and imagine that if I had been born a bit earlier, perhaps I might have been put in similar circumstances; this makes me more engaged to the story.

I cant as easily identify with the offspring of a god who can turn into a ferocious demon at will. This is not to say that I never enjoy stories or games like Baldurs Gate, its just that I wish there was more variety while also admitting to being biased more toward what might be called 'realism' in my RPG's and Movies and Books etc...

Realism does not mean the world does not have magic or monsters etc. Instead its more like a grittiness of detail and explanation. For me it means people and events are slightly more grounded- in RPG's this might mean items aligned more towards the opposite end of the 'monty haul' spectrum. There is no single or precise definition; its just something that you feel from the world and I think most people basically recognize the differences I am speaking about as the appear.

For some games that are more in line with what I mean, take for instance the Jagged Alliance series of games, where you are still an elite bad ass, but you are not the most elite guy who ever existed with magical or mutant type powers and the story line does not revolve around a world ending emergency, but is instead involved with local politics and power. Other examples I can think of: Silent Hunter III, Some old dungeons and dragons modules like 'against the giants', or even games where you simulate being a high level military commander like Panzer General. Yes you might be elite, but the characters live and act within a scope I could possibly imagine being able to achieve or experience, even if it is highly unlikely or beyond my actual abilities and talents to do so.

 

[ArchAngel]

I would say Die Hard movies (at least 1 and 2) are good example of a "normal" guy doing heroic things and accomplishing way more than anyone would expect or hope for.

John McClane was a cop and therefore he was prepared for a situation where he would use a weapon and force. In Die Hard 1 it is obvious that he has also a lot of luck, but his most useful skill is the will to survive and to do extremes to achieve it, without giving up.

He had some training but he was not a chosen one. He was just a regular cop that decided to do things beyond his duty or expectations of his peers. Nobody expects one cop to take on a squad of highly trained ex military mercenaries and live. It was expected he dies in first gunfight due to less training and real war experience but he managed to accomplish something extraordinary while being just a normal cop and a normal human being with no money, ex wife and other normal human faults.

 

[Darkzone]

Realism does not mean the world does not have magic or monsters etc. Instead its more like a grittiness of detail and explanation. For me it means people and events are slightly more grounded- in RPG's this might mean items aligned more towards the opposite end of the 'monty haul' spectrum. There is no single or precise definition; its just something that you feel from the world and I think most people basically recognize the differences I am speaking about as the appear.

Realism in a imaginary world, is a conceptual world coherence, based upon common factors from our real universe, where actors act according to our experience of the real world.

John McClane was a cop and therefore he was prepared for a situation where he would use a weapon and force. In Die Hard 1 it is obvious that he has also a lot of luck, but his most useful skill is the will to survive and to do extremes to achieve it, without giving up.

He had some training but he was not a chosen one. He was just a regular cop that decided to do things beyond his duty or expectations of his peers. Nobody expects one cop to take on a squad of highly trained ex military mercenaries and live. It was expected he dies in first gunfight due to less training and real war experience but he managed to accomplish something extraordinary while being just a normal cop and a normal human being with no money, ex wife and other normal human faults.

Agree but keep in mind:
The thing is that it wasn't that over the top gun fights and this made the film so good. In the first encounter he had a lot of luck (NOW I HAVE A MACHINE GUN HO-HO-HO) with the broken neck. In the second he was in advantage on the beginning, and he lost it due to hesitation, but again he was lucky because the villain run out of ammunition and had to reload. And still he had no shoes. And this goes so on till the end. The only a bit unrealistic thing is that he could run and fight despite his cut foots, but i lay it off due to adrenalin and i could also run and fight despite a broken foot.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Realism does not mean the world does not have magic or monsters etc. Instead its more like a grittiness of detail and explanation. For me it means people and events are slightly more grounded- in RPG's this might mean items aligned more towards the opposite end of the 'monty haul' spectrum. There is no single or precise definition; its just something that you feel from the world and I think most people basically recognize the differences I am speaking about as the appear.

Realism in a imaginary world, is a conceptual world coherence, based upon common factors from our real universe, where actors act according to our experience of the real world.

ah yes, you got it. That is a great definition. I would not have come up with that myself, even if subconsciously that is what I was reacting to.

 

[Morality Games]

Did not play it. Too edgy and tries too hard.

Besides What I wrote above about preferring less trash mobs and less loot magic pinatas , I also generally prefer 'simple' and more grounded adventures where you are not 'saving the world' or some special 'chosen one', or the offspring of a god; but more akin to a mercenary, or involved with local conflict, small wars, local political intrigue or hired to explore some faraway place for a specific purpose and not saving the entire universe but more like accomplishing a task for somebody who wants to increase their wealth or power or whatever.

Its for this reason that I often will play the beginning of many RPG's but around the 70% mark I find myself not interested anymore because I have magic everything and do 686 damage when I hit.

I prefer the levels 1-10 to put it in DnD terms, and tend to become less interested the higher the levels go.

Its why I never played Baldurs gate throne of Baal, and found it hard to even want to finish Baldurs gate II..

Man, some people really get into not being chosen or special. Strive for mediocrity, eh?

Interesting stories are about interesting people. Throw your average nobody into the position of a mercenary and they're probably going to die. Throw an above-average, competent, person into the position of a mercenary involved with a local conflict or small war and odds are they'll die, too. Face it: All main characters in stories are 'chosen ones'. The real "non-special, non-chosen-normal" people--the brother who was killed, the friend who died fighting beside them, the tragic past and the losses accrued along the way--THOSE are not main characters in stories. If you understand that, why do you care if they're "chosen" because they don't die (at least long enough to entertain you), either due to extreme luck or skill, or if they're chosen because they have some power that swings the probability of their death in the other direction?

Edit- That's not to say you shouldn't prefer stories about local conflicts or characters with more humble accomplishments. I just don't buy the whole 'can't be the special chosen one' argument.

Because stories about chosen ones are equal to reading a story about a son/daughter of a rich or powerful man accomplishing something great. Yea their accomplishment is cool and all but you have to wonder if they would be able to do that if they were not from that family/chosen one.
But a story about a nobody that reached above his class/station/caste and accomplished something amazing, that is a story that more people will like.

Japanese pop culture is infested with those stories and they're nothing special.

 

[M. AQVILA]

Am I the only one who prefers stories in which the protagonist is a god/demigod or has a special ability? I actually prefer power fantasy in games over average guy/underdog that achieves his life goal/greatness. I mean, if I want average and underwhelming then I have real life already. I like reading about great people and their accomplishments, be it fiction, myth or history. I don't care about John Doe who managed to survive another day in some backwater place no one cares about.

 

[ArchAngel]

Am I the only one who prefers stories in which the protagonist is a god/demigod or has a special ability? I actually prefer power fantasy in games over average guy/underdog that achieves his life goal/greatness. I mean, if I want average and underwhelming then I have real life already. I like reading about great people and their accomplishments, be it fiction, myth or history. I don't care about John Doe who managed to survive another day in some backwater place no one cares about.

Except those great people all started as an average Joe (well not children of Kings and such). For example, popular show Vikings shows Ragnar and his bloodline. At the start he was just another average Joe Viking. And he accomplished greatness. That is a better story than whatever shit chosen one exists in our world.