Interview Peter Molyneux's lack of talent didn't stop him

[ushdugery]

Fortunately, I don't accept your premise that 4 games Petey made constitute all of the important classic games.

Occams razor suggests you haven't played any other important classic games either. Everything that dudes sentient razor tells me is right.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I think Peter Molyneux is a lot like George Lucas. He made an original thing which was awesome. He casually mentions he got the idea from somewhere else and copied a few things but that's cool. Then he goes out to make more awesome and fails utterly. It's about that time you start to wonder whether he actually ever had any real talent, or he just got lucky in what he chose to copy. Then you start to look at the originals a little more closely and you see the same plot device used in two different movies (no really, the Empire built another Deathstar after the first one went so well?) and other questionable issues (Ewoks? Just what the hell is going on there?).

 

[Xi]

...
The second option is less simple, hence Occam's Razor dictates the first is most likely true.

But it isn't Occam's Razor applied correctly because it leaves out important information to begin with. Occam's Razor should define something with the fewest assumptions, but it does not mean you get to leave out assumptions or baselessly pretend that your assumptions are true. Honestly, there was no reason for him to site "Occam's Razor" in the first place and it is more or less a fallacy in terms of appealing to authority to cause his argument to appear stronger than it was.

The simplest solution is not the solution which leaves out important information. This is why his assumption fails, and why Occam's razor is a ridiculous claim. He could have said something like this:

According to modern research(and provided a link), others are more responsible for what you like about those old games than Molyneux is.

Because without any type of support for his argument Occam's Razor does not matter because his claim is unfinished. It's an appeal to authority, and a glaringly bad one, because he's using the concept of "Occam's razor" as the support for his claim. That's just pathetic, and I'm with trash on this one.

:D

Edit:

In fact this is his statement: "Others are more responsible for what you like about those games than Molyneux." Yet he provides nothing in support of his argument other than a baseless claim. Molyneux may have been mostly responsible, but his argument doesn't prove otherwise and is pointless at best without proof. Are we to believe blindly in this case? A better statment, and using Occam's razor, would be this:

"Bullfrog would not have existed without Peter Molyneux, therefore Molyneux played a huge hand in their successes."
(Though this is a baseless claim as im not sure if it's true, but im willing to bet it is.)

 

[FrancoTAU]

Well, I think the first Star Wars was dumb luck. Empire Strikes Back was actually directed by someone much more competent than Lucas which was why it was good. Lucas took back the helm with Return of the Jedi.

 

[sportforredneck]

Lucas took back the helm with Return of the Jedi.

Lucas only co-wrote ROTJ. He didn't direct. It just didn't have the same director as Empire.

 

[J1M]

Fortunately, I don't accept your premise that 4 games Petey made constitute all of the important classic games.

Occams razor suggests you haven't played any other important classic games either. Everything that dudes sentient razor tells me is right.

Actually, it's more likely I didn't play 3 of 4 games made by Pete than I didn't play any other classic games. Especially since I have already mentioned Fallout and XCOM... sorry.

 

[J1M]

...
The second option is less simple, hence Occam's Razor dictates the first is most likely true.

But it isn't Occam's Razor applied correctly because it leaves out important information to begin with. Occam's Razor should define something with the fewest assumptions, but it does not mean you get to leave out assumptions or baselessly pretend that your assumptions are true. Honestly, there was no reason for him to site "Occam's Razor" in the first place and it is more or less a fallacy in terms of appealing to authority to cause his argument to appear stronger than it was.

The simplest solution is not the solution which leaves out important information. This is why his assumption fails, and why Occam's razor is a ridiculous claim. He could have said something like this:

According to modern research(and provided a link), others are more responsible for what you like about those old games than Molyneux is.

Because without any type of support for his argument Occam's Razor does not matter because his claim is unfinished. It's an appeal to authority, and a glaringly bad one, because he's using the concept of "Occam's razor" as the support for his claim. That's just pathetic, and I'm with trash on this one.

It's not an appeal to authority, though based on your past posts I can see how you would mistake it for one.

We obviously lack complete information about the situation. We don't have a reasonable method of aquiring all of the information required to provide a completely accurate representation of what happened 20 years ago in a timely fashion. Using a well established reasoning system and the information we do have is a perfectly reasonable way of coming up with what probably happened.

Just listening to Peter talk makes it perfectly clear he doesn't know shit about game design, so yeah I assume his success at Bullfrog was due to well... Bullfrog. Bullfrog going south after EA bought it is typical of well... EA buying someone.

 

[ushdugery]

Fortunately, I don't accept your premise that 4 games Petey made constitute all of the important classic games.

Occams razor suggests you haven't played any other important classic games either. Everything that dudes sentient razor tells me is right.

Actually, it's more likely I didn't play 3 of 4 games made by Pete than I didn't play any other classic games. Especially since I have already mentioned Fallout and XCOM... sorry.

The sentient razor has spoken quite literally and his final statement is that he enjoys cutting shit up I really don't see how in all good concience you can argue with that biznatch of a household tool of LOGIC!

 

[FrancoTAU]

Lucas took back the helm with Return of the Jedi.

Lucas only co-wrote ROTJ. He didn't direct. It just didn't have the same director as Empire.

Okay, i'm not a super behind the scenes geek so my bad. I did hear the Empire director veto'ed plenty of dumb ideas from Lucas in some documentary.

 

[sportforredneck]

Lucas took back the helm with Return of the Jedi.

Lucas only co-wrote ROTJ. He didn't direct. It just didn't have the same director as Empire.

Okay, i'm not a super behind the scenes geek so my bad.

I just know generally about movies. Not really Star Wars, although I do like Empire.

I did hear the Empire director veto'ed plenty of dumb ideas from Lucas in some documentary.

Yes. And I'm guessing the other director couldn't stop Lucas from trying to market the hell out of the last one by making Ewoks.

 

[muds_animal_friend]

There was obviously some form of creative synergy specfic to Bullfrog because neither of its descendant studios achieved the same creative success. Mucky Foot Productions only managed to produce Startopia (which was good but not exceptional) a couple of console turkeys. Lionhead Studios specialises in mutton dressed as lamb; lots of style but little substance.

 

[Trash]

It's not an appeal to authority, though based on your past posts I can see how you would mistake it for one.

We obviously lack complete information about the situation. We don't have a reasonable method of aquiring all of the information required to provide a completely accurate representation of what happened 20 years ago in a timely fashion. Using a well established reasoning system and the information we do have is a perfectly reasonable way of coming up with what probably happened.

Just listening to Peter talk makes it perfectly clear he doesn't know shit about game design, so yeah I assume his success at Bullfrog was due to well... Bullfrog. Bullfrog going south after EA bought it is typical of well... EA buying someone.

Again, you assume a lot. It's rather easy to check who worked on these games and in what capacity. Here's for example the list of people that are credited for their work on Populous. Frankly though, this discussion is going nowhere. You keep on saying that someone that has created and worked on a number of classic games obviously has no talent. With you not knowing shit about these games and making lots of assumptions with little or no basis. I'm sorry to say that it's a waste of my time. Bye.

Programming:
Glenn Corpes, Peter Molyneux
Graphics / Artwork:
Andrew Jones
Music:
Rob Hubbard
Sound:
David Hanlon
Undetermined:
Simon Hunter
Original Concept:
Peter Molyneux
Game Design:
Glenn Corpes, Kevin Donkin, Les Edgar, Peter Molyneux
Game Graphics:
Sean Cooper, Glenn Corpes, Andrew Jones, Dan Wheeler
Game Music and Sound:
David Hanlon
Title Music:
Rob Hubbard
Producer:
Joss Ellis
Associate Producer:
Kevin Shrapnell
Cover Art:
David Rowe
Betatesting:
Sean Cooper

 

[asper]

Music:
Rob Hubbard
Title Music:
Rob Hubbard

:shock: *replays Populous*

 

[Sir_Brennus]

Lucas took back the helm with Return of the Jedi.

Lucas only co-wrote ROTJ. He didn't direct. It just didn't have the same director as Empire.

Okay, i'm not a super behind the scenes geek so my bad. I did hear the Empire director veto'ed plenty of dumb ideas from Lucas in some documentary.

It wasn't that way.

Lucas only wrote the story outline. The first screenplay was so innovative that he scapped it totally. The second screenplay was written by his pal Lawrence Kasdan and got his approval. He pretty much thought that he totally fixed everything in this way (also by having established the look in the first movie) and hired and industry veteran to direct the movie.

But this guy questioned everything and never asked GL when he changed stuff. There has been tellings of a clash between director and the executive producer about the question if R2-D2's colored rectangles could be changed from blue to black.

GL always was the visionary while he never was a competent director or filming handyman. That explains why neither Pete nor his old teammates could produce anything groundbreaking without each other.

You know, it's this Lennon / McCartney thingie.

 

[Xi]

It's not an appeal to authority, though based on your past posts I can see how you would mistake it for one.

Occam's Razor says that you're wrong. Prove me wrong now!

We obviously lack complete information about the situation. We don't have a reasonable method of aquiring all of the information required to provide a completely accurate representation of what happened 20 years ago in a timely fashion. Using a well established reasoning system and the information we do have is a perfectly reasonable way of coming up with what probably happened.

Excuses to not back up a claim? Interesting tactic, did you learn how to do this while you were late for work one day?

Just listening to Peter talk makes it perfectly clear he doesn't know shit about game design, so yeah I assume his success at Bullfrog was due to well... Bullfrog. Bullfrog going south after EA bought it is typical of well... EA buying someone.

Peter played a very influential role and whether he deserves most of the credit is aside the point. Those games, which were regarded as good for their times, would be different games if not for good ol' Peter. Your analogy seems to suggest that those games would be just as good without him, or better. Yet you offer baseless conjecture with an "Occam's Razor" as your feeble support.

I'm not sure if this is dumbfuck worthy though, but Trash pretty much already trashed you by Googling simple facts like what Peter actually did at Bullfrog. It must feel like getting punked on MTV, but in this case you get trashed and there's no joke "oh it's all ok" feel-good, bullshit at the end. You just end up looking like a retard who thinks their condition is an "ability."