Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Athelas]

126 at level 5. Going from level 4 to 5 only added 3 deflection, but it was just enough to put me in the 'safe zone' from those particular enemies.

 

[aeonsim]

126 at level 5. Going from level 4 to 5 only added 3 deflection, but it was just enough to put me in the 'safe zone' from those particular enemies.

Normal or Hard difficulty? I assume the Sword and shield Modal icon is cautious defence for it's +15 deflection?

 

[Athelas]

126 at level 5. Going from level 4 to 5 only added 3 deflection, but it was just enough to put me in the 'safe zone' from those particular enemies.

Normal or Hard difficulty? Have you got cautious attack, the general modal talent that gives + 15 Deflection?

Hard difficulty - but only path of the damned changes enemy stats, I think. And that talent was the first thing I took, naturally.

 

[ushas]

Fine Breastplate 12.4 (12)
Or does the windows version have different numbers?

Fine Breastplate has 13 DR against Pierce. I'm not sure where you're getting these numbers from.

I'm getting the decimal ones from the combat log mose-over formula and the rounded integer in brackets is listed on the character screen, after equipping an armor.

Can you check the same in windows version? I mean, for example, if you are able to confirm, that your game shows on all three places (description+char. panel+combat log) the same number 13DR for Pierce? I'm just slightly confused, being the only one complaining

 

[Athelas]

Fine Breastplate 12.4 (12)
Or does the windows version have different numbers?

Fine Breastplate has 13 DR against Pierce. I'm not sure where you're getting these numbers from.

I'm getting the decimal ones from the combat log mose-over formula and the rounded integer in brackets is listed on the character screen, after equipping an armor.

Can you check the same in windows version? I mean, for example, if you are able to confirm, that your game shows on all three places (description+char. panel+combat log) the same number 13DR for Pierce? I'm just slightly confused, being the only one complaining

No, you're quite right. The combat log shows 12.4 DR. The floating damage numbers also appear to do a point less damage than what shows up in the combat log.

 

[aeonsim]

126 at level 5. Going from level 4 to 5 only added 3 deflection, but it was just enough to put me in the 'safe zone' from those particular enemies.

Normal or Hard difficulty? Have you got cautious attack, the general modal talent that gives + 15 Deflection?

Hard difficulty - but only path of the damned changes enemy stats, I think. And that talent was the first thing I took, naturally.

Yeah on PoD I think they'rd have another 5-10 accuracy. You went Orlan with Perception and resolve at 20 each? I was looking at it earlier and think if you aim to maximise your defence you can get to 136 Def at level 6. If you have the right talents and sub-race you can gain another 17 def on top of that with the temporary innate buffs of +10 if someone attacks your will and +7 if you kill something. So your pretty close to the maximum possible for level 5 with your current build.

 

[ushas]

I tough the switch Normal -> Hard consists in change of enemies (aka harder ones). For example, there is more Adra beatles on hard? But I don't know their accuracy, only DR modifiers.

 

[aeonsim]

I tough the switch Normal -> Hard consists in change of enemies (aka harder ones). For example, there is more Adra beatles on hard? But I don't know their accuracy, only DR modifiers.

Normal -> Hard increases the number of enemies by adding new higher level ones I think, and possibly a few more of the lower level ones. Hard -> PoD does the equivalent of taking all those enemies and giving them another level or 2, more damage more accuracy etc.

Something like this I think, it's not exactly correct but it's probably not too far wrong:
Normal 4x level 4 Beetles
Hard 5x level 4 Beetles + 1 level 6 Adra beetle
PoD 5x level 5 Beetles + 1 level 8 Adra beetle

 

[ushas]

No, you're quite right. The combat log shows 12.4 DR. The floating damage numbers also appear to do a point less damage than what shows up in the combat log.

Thanks. That's interesting. A good point with the floating numbers! May be connected (eg. the same rounding problem). Wouldn't you mind if I cite your post in the bug report (in case you don't feel to join yourself)?
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70345-wrong-integer-values-of-dr-subtypes-in-descriptions-of-quality-armors-compare-to-the-character-panel-info/

The calculation under the hood can be prety much right, we may just receive an inconsistent info... But to know for sure, the source code would have to tell.

 

[ushas]

Normal -> Hard increases the number of enemies by adding new higher level ones I think, and possibly a few more of the lower level ones. Hard -> PoD does the equivalent of taking all those enemies and giving them another level or 2, more damage more accuracy etc.

Something like this I think, it's not exactly correct but it's probably not too far wrong:
Normal 4x level 4 Beetles
Hard 5x level 4 Beetles + 1 level 6 Adra beetle
PoD 5x level 5 Beetles + 1 level 8 Adra beetle

Ok. Good to know. I got confused by the PoD description (that there will be all the bugs from all difficulties together ).

Although, would be nice to see, what is harder
either
5x level 5 Beetles + 1 level 8 Adra beetle
or
2 x level 6 Beetles + 2 x level 8 Adra

(the increase in number of low level enemies sometimes feels to me similar to simple HP increase, eg. just more chore.)

 

[aeonsim]

Ok. Good to know. I got confused by the PoD description (that there will be all the bugs from all difficulties together ).

Although, would be nice to see, what is harder
either
5x level 5 Beetles + 1 level 8 Adra beetle
or
2 x level 6 Beetles + 2 x level 8 Adra

(the increase in number of low level enemies sometimes feels to me similar to simple HP increase, eg. just more chore.)

So I've been trying to see exactly what the difference is for each difficulty level, to get a better idea of what is happening here.

So as has previously been described going from Easy > Normal > Hard has little effect on the enemy stats.
If we take for an example a wood beetle at all these difficult levels they have a Deflection of 33 and Accuracy of 51.
However the number of enemies changes from level to level.
So if we look at the area south of the road at Dyrford Crossing before it curves up this is what happens:
Easy: 1 Stone Beetle (SB), 4 Wood Beetles (WB)
Normal: 3 SB, 4 WB
Hard: 1 Adra Beetle (AB), 2 SB, 4 WB

Now if we change to Path of the Damned the numbers increase again, but also the stats increase the wood beetles which were 33DEF, 51ACC -> 48DEF, 66ACC for a 45% increase in DEF & 30% increase in ACC.
Secondly the numbers change again:
PoD: 1 AB, 3 SB, 4 WB

It seems they get the max number of each enemy type that has been present in the previous difficulties, the result is each enemy is harder to hit, finds it easier to hit you and there are slightly more of them .
For the various enemies I've looked at the range of Def increases is 20-50% and the ACC improvement in the range of 25-40%

Other examples:
Inside the Caves all Spiders up to Korgraks area:
Easy, 7 total: 1 Ivory Spinner (IS), 1 Ivory Spinner Spiderling (ISS), 3 WidowMakers (WM), 2 WidowMaker Spiderlings (WMS)
Normal, 22 total: 6 IS, 3 ISL, 4 WM, 9 WMS
Hard, 29 total: 8 IS, 6 ISL, 6 WM, 9 WMS
PoD, 31 total: 8 IS, 6 ISL, 8 MW, 9 WMS
With each individual having about 40% more Def and ACC

Krograk:
Easy: Krograk
Normal: Krograk, 3 Bears (B)
Hard: Krograk, 2 Elder Bears (EB)
PoD: Krograk, 2 EB, 3 B
With each individual gaining about 30% additional Def and ACC, the elder Bears end up going from 87 ACC to 106 ACC.

Anyway it makes for a very substantial increase in difficulty going from Hard to PoD, as well as a more interesting difficulty scale rather than just having all the enemies attribute adjusted by 0.5, 1.0, 1.5, 2.0x for Easy, Normal, Hard and PoD.
The other defences also increase in much the same way so it's possible that there endurance does as well, but I can't easily test that.

 

[aeonsim]

Although, would be nice to see, what is harder
either
5x level 5 Beetles + 1 level 8 Adra beetle
or
2 x level 6 Beetles + 2 x level 8 Adra

(the increase in number of low level enemies sometimes feels to me similar to simple HP increase, eg. just more chore.)

Hard to say, but possibly the first option as you can block and control 4 enemies a lot easier than 6 even if they're stronger. With 6 it becomes harder to flank them (-10 deflection) and your more likely to be flanked your self. Secondly with 6 there's a decent chance some of them will target your squishy units and if the rest of your party is already engaged it's alot harder to do something about it.

 

[Sensuki]

just the chanter who gives a small amount of regen but they have no problems even on PoD

If you have a Chanter with Beloved Spirits, that talent is bugged and gives you bullshit infinite stacking healing

 

[ushas]

So I've been trying to see exactly what the difference is for each difficulty level, to get a better idea of what is happening here...

That's a comprehensive compilation.

You are right, this shows some interesting variations to choose from. Even when not going to play on that level, I like that the Easy mod provides a much less chore to the story guys. Change from normal to hard may feel less steep in some encounters. But these different enemies may change a lot (eg Adra beatle among others has DR:18, stone DR:15, wood DR:7). Oh and the Damned one

 

[Jezal_k23]

I'm glad difficulty in PoE was generally handled like that. Of that I'm fucking proud. I remember games like Wolfenstein 3D and Doom / Doom 2 doing the same thing. Higher difficulties changed the number of monsters and their placement, guaranteeing that gameplay would be overall a lot more difficult and, in some cases, even entirely different when you made the jump from I'm too young to die/hey not too rough to hurt me plenty/ultra violence (such as when fucking cyberdemons were added). Simple, elegant, overall brilliant IMO.

From what I've been playing of modern games though, this way of increasing difficulty across skill levels has been mostly forgotten, since devs now just increase health by x% depending on the difficulty level, which is boring as fuck and in some cases leads to hp bloat and overall boring experiences (beth games), as whatever you want to do will merely take longer. As for messing with damage percentages, I don't mind that as much. Still, I find it ideal that enemy placement/types be altered from one skill level to another.

 

[ushas]

Hard to say, but possibly the first option as you can block and control 4 enemies a lot easier than 6 even if they're stronger. With 6 it becomes harder to flank them (-10 deflection) and your more likely to be flanked your self. Secondly with 6 there's a decent chance some of them will target your squishy units and if the rest of your party is already engaged it's alot harder to do something about it.

Ok. That sounds reasonable. Would be interesting to see how the builds as the Athelas's would work across different difficuilties. As when something works easy on Hard, may not win on PoD...

 

[Sensuki]

I tried Athelas' Paladin build

20 Per, 20 Res
Talents: Cautious Attack, Sword and Shield Style
Hatchet, Fine Large Shield, Boots of Evasion

Here's what happened:

 

[ushas]

Looks like a wasn't fast enough to interrupt the Shocking blast, but that Piercing graze is painful as well

Edit: I see now, he was attacking the wood beatle. Will be a viable tactic with an interrupt build to focus on the highest thread?

 

[Sensuki]

That character only has an Accuracy of 37. Grazes have a fairly low chance of interrupt (even with the bug). You can see that when I actually land a hit, I score an interrupt. Wood Beetles aren't difficult to hit (31 Deflection?) but Adra Beetles have ~60 Deflection

 

[Sensuki]

He's right about the spiders though, I only got grazed once outside the Ogre Cave, probably have similar results inside too.

 

[Sensuki]

There's still some pretty big issues in this game with enemy targeting and pathfinding. If you get a bit fancy and micro the targeted character behind others and use a chokepoint or something (not a hard chokepoint, but maybe a soft one, using rocks or something), enemies will just stand there bugging out trying to target the character at the back.

 

[ushas]

That character only has an Accuracy of 37. Grazes have a fairly low chance of interrupt (even with the bug). You can see that when I actually land a hit, I score an interrupt. Wood Beetles aren't difficult to hit (31 Deflection?) but Adra Beetles have ~60 Deflection

You are right. Then in this case, perhaps the 20 Per/Res build may be more useful as a high ability user - I don't know, maybe a mage, with touch/cone spells and targeting other defences...

 

[ushas]

Don't know much about pathfinding. Just sometimes it feelt to me that the characters have some sort of a personal space

 

[The Fish]

Is there a way of muting the voice volume yet? Last I saw the only sound options were for music and sound effects.

I don't think I could stand listening to American accented "m'lords" for thirty hours. It would feel as if you're stranded at a renaissance faire with a group of fat sweaty LARPers.

 

[Sensuki]

No there's not. They said they wouldn't have time to implement it before release, as they're focusing on bug fixing.