Pillars of Eternity Coding/Hacking Thread

[J_C]

I take it that Bester 's version is WIP.

Sure it is. I am just saying that it is strange to say that it looks better than the original, because in its current form, it doesn't.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Love the U-frame interface, definitely prefer that over the default one.

Really, because in its current form, it is pretty meh. The main purpose of the U frame is to add atmosphere to the game. In this form, it is just like the original, with a similar texture, and icons just in a U shape. Bester is doing a great job in implementing this UI, but it needs new textures and some new functions to be better than the original.

I take it that Bester 's version is WIP.

I think he's is talking about things like displaying gold on the left bar, something I'm not planning on doing.

The only thing that isn't final is the buttons that need to be the same size as in BG, kind of like this:

I just finished fixing all the bugs that were present in the version that I sent to Sensuki, now all that remains is to draw those buttons...

I think I'll take a break for a few days, maybe someone will step up or at least find me some good textures for those buttons... If not, I'll do it myself in a few days.

 

[Rake]

Bester Gold and shit are irrelevant, i take that his complain is more about how the UI in it's current form has zero decorative elements. And in that i agree with him. Grotesque's UI looks better. Why don't you ask someone like Grotesque or Phantasmal or some other Codexer with photoshop skills to draw your UI? Just take their Ui, make them change the things that you feel need changing, and make it happen.
As it stands it's just like Obsidian's UI in a U shape. It doesn't look better, it's just all about function.

 

[J_C]

To make myself clear. I dont favour the U shape UI,because it has better functionality. I like it because it looks better. If the U shape is just like the original, but in a U shape, i will just stick to the original, it takes up less space. The UI Grotesque made looks great, éven though it hasn't got better functionality than the original.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

I don't mind including other U-frames if they're good, but they would have to be good. The reason I did the U-frame mod is because a fair amount of people have been asking for a U-frame, not because they were asking for a UI with decorative elements, because that I simply cannot give, cause I'm not an artist.

Also I know that there's a lot of empty space, and I always said that a U-frame would be space inefficient when people first started talking about the U-like interface months ago, but they didn't seem to mind empty space much, and apparently they still don't. It's certainly not a mod for everyone, I'm not going to use it for example. I talked about an L-frame because that'd be efficient, but a lot of people said they didn't want it, cause it's asymmetrical. Anyway, BG at higher resolutions also had empty space and didn't have decorative elements at all, actually: http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/222096-the-weekend-modder-s-guide-baldur-s-gate-1-2/BGMain 2012-02-17 22-14-55-41-noscale.jpg

Those who'd like to have those BG feels are welcome to play with the U-frame, others like J_C don't have to.

 

[Rake]

I don't mind including other U-frames if they're good, but they would have to be good. The reason I did the U-frame mod is because a fair amount of people have been asking for a U-frame, not because they were asking for a UI with decorative elements, because that I simply cannot give, cause I'm not an artist.

Also I know that there's a lot of empty space, and I always said that a U-frame would be space inefficient when people first started talking about the U-like interface months ago, but they didn't seem to mind empty space much, and apparently they still don't. It's certainly not a mod for everyone, I'm not going to use it for example. I talked about an L-frame because that'd be efficient, but a lot of people said they didn't want it, cause it's asymmetrical. Anyway, BG at higher resolutions also had empty space and didn't have decorative elements at all, actually: http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/222096-the-weekend-modder-s-guide-baldur-s-gate-1-2/BGMain 2012-02-17 22-14-55-41-noscale.jpg

Those who'd like to have those BG feels are welcome to play with the U-frame, others like J_C don't have to.

Fair enough. I always though BG2 modded UI looked like shit. BG2's UI was perfect in it's native resolution. And i don't mind empty space if it's decorated. Empty for the sake of empty doesn't feel good.
As i said, why don't you work with Grotesque (or someone else) in order to decorate your UI?

 

[veevoir]

As i said, why don't you work with Grotesque (or someone else) in order to decorate your UI?

Especially that some of Bester complaints made it into the last version of Grotesque's UI. It is getting better every day, if there won't be any mod for that I'll just paint it over my screen.

And given that Bester has some ninja Unity skills.. I sense a quest that requires both of them in the party.

Now Bester Grotesque - kiss and make up! The Great UI mod has to happen!

 

[Surf Solar]

Bester , how did you implement the textures in the game? Tell Unity to draw a U shaped interface element and simply assign a texture to it? Or are those already final images that the engine simply loads and draws the UI elements over?

If it's the latter, could you share your .psd file so others could add some decorative elements to it? That would be atleast a good middleground if you have no interest in Grotesques version.
Also, I know you are annoyed by it by now, but please could you look into a way to make the combat log appear directly in the middle of the frame? I'd have no problem throwing a few bucks in your way for the hard work you've done on the mod(s), because I really look forward to PoE and want to play it the way I dreamed of when the game first got pitched.

Thanks

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Bester , how did you implement the textures in the game? Tell Unity to draw a U shaped interface element and simply assign a texture to it? Or are those already final images that the engine simply loads and draws the UI elements over?

I don't understand what you mean by "final images". I tell Unity to create an interface element (empty for now), then assign a texture to it (that happens to be U-like with transparency in the middle). It's just a .png file. You can replace it with anything you like.

However there's also a matter of making 3 boxcolliders behind the U frame (they need to block mouse clicks from going through the texture). I adjusted the size of those colliders in the code for my U-frames, but I can externalize those values to .txt files so that when you make a U-frame of slightly different proportions, you could adjust the values in the text file. I'll take care of it when the need arises, but for now I can just integrate whatever gud UI people produce and assign all required values to it myself.

So yeah, feel free to explore your artistic depths with this psd: https://yadi.sk/i/XXV3Zpnjet6NR
You need to produce an image like that: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62420848/bg2-mosaic.png
I currently save them as png-24 - quality: bicubic, but I haven't explored if it's the best way.

I would also really appreciate wider buttons.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Also, I know you are annoyed by it by now, but please could you look into a way to make the combat log appear directly in the middle of the frame?

I'll add in a console command called "FixOCD".

Especially that some of Bester complaints made it into the last version of Grotesque's UI. It is getting better every day, if there won't be any mod for that I'll just paint it over my screen.

And given that Bester has some ninja Unity skills.. I sense a quest that requires both of them in the party.

Look, it's not the first time someone says that I should work on Grotesque's UI, so I think I'll just say what I think about these "offers" maybe in a lyrical way to illustrate my point.

1) Imagine you're a coal miner. You work and you get paid for it. Cool.
2) Now imagine being proposed to work on another mine that is slightly more interesting, but for free. Most would politely decline at this point, but you accept.
3) Then you're being proposed to work there for free, but also with no tools, so to mine coal with your bare hands. You say "fuck it, let's do it".
4) And after all that, someone comes along and proposes you work for free, with no tools, but again on a different mine, where people mine not coal, but shit.

I've been at stage 3 this whole time, and now you're kindly offering me a ride to stage 4. Thanks, but I think I'll pass. I'm not that mentally ill yet to add in an additional challenge of working on things that I wouldn't even enjoy working on.

 

[Rake]

Also, I know you are annoyed by it by now, but please could you look into a way to make the combat log appear directly in the middle of the frame?

I'll add in a console command called "FixOCD".

Especially that some of Bester complaints made it into the last version of Grotesque's UI. It is getting better every day, if there won't be any mod for that I'll just paint it over my screen.

And given that Bester has some ninja Unity skills.. I sense a quest that requires both of them in the party.

Look, it's not the first time someone says that I should work on Grotesque's UI, so I think I'll just say what I think about these "offers" maybe in a lyrical way to illustrate my point.

1) Imagine you're a coal miner. You work and you get paid for it. Cool.
2) Now imagine being proposed to work on another mine that is slightly more interesting, but for free. Most would politely decline at this point, but you accept.
3) Then you're being proposed to work there for free, but also with no tools, so to mine coal with your bare hands. You say "fuck it, let's do it".
4) And after all that, someone comes along and proposes you work for free, with no tools, but again on a different mine, where people mine not coal, but shit.

I've been at stage 3 this whole time, and now you're kindly offering me a ride to stage 4. Thanks, but I think I'll pass. I'm not that mentally ill yet to add in an additional challenge of working on things that I wouldn't even enjoy working on.

What exactly do you find so irredemably shit in Grotesque's UI?
Minor things i can understand, but hating everything in it with a passion?
I'm asking because almost everyone liked Grotesque's UI. So even if someone else made an artistic effort, chances are you could dismissed them as well. Can you give as a couple of examples of what you consider beautifull UIs, so we have a point of reference?

 

[dukeofwhales]

Realistically, it doesn't matter all that much. There are many, many people who have experience with Unity, and I'm sure once release comes around there will be plenty of people looking to create a Baldur's Gate-style UI. I appreciate your efforts, Bester, and I understand that you don't want to work for free on something you don't like, but this isn't exactly a one-off opportunity for us to get a good U-shaped UI.

 

[Rake]

Oh, i know. But i intent to delay my first playthough until the game is fully patched, and Bester's IE mod is ready. It would be nice to have a good U shaped UI until that time.(let's say two months after release)

 

[Shevek]

Ya Groteque's UI mock up is pretty sweet but implementing all that looks like a real chore. I would be surprised if it could be modded in by one person who is also working on other mods.

On a related note, I really hope OE does more to support modding since throwing down a bunch of cash for Unity Pro wont be an option for most folks. Part of the allure of modding the IE games was how easy it was. A simple text editor is all you needed to do tons of stuff and the community was able to make a ton of easy to use tools to add to that (NearInfinity, etc).

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

since throwing down a bunch of cash for Unity Pro wont be an option for most folks

There's a way to make a Unity based tool to allow the modification of assets, but I don't see why anyone would bother doing that just cause some people are too brainwashed to install utorrent. Fargo is doing that for W2 though, but he's got resources and a dream.

 

[ushas]

When Grotesque finish his design, I imagine, there will be enough fans to implement it as he intends. He is doing design and tuning details of one for all UI, which on the other hand isn't possible to easy rearrange to player's tastes. Bester's approach is from the opposite side, providing the tool with clearly defined possibilities, starting from the basic elements. Now it's on the artistically oriented people to come with more decorative content, if desirable. It would be interesting to see both approaches evolving in time next to each other.

If they don't want to collaborate, there is no reason to force it. No need for an explanation neither, their projects their vetoes. Besides, did you notice both being super efficient after the fight? No making up, we are about to keep them angry

Bester, I got the feeling that, in the end, you are going to make it so anybody can use their own alternative textures without bothering you. Or am I mistaken?

 

[ushas]

There are some stupid questions and proposals (feel free to ignore anything):

-- Is it hard to make three sides behave individually, so you can toggle each of them? Eg. the framing can be redrawn over, or so.

-- It would be nice to see woods or stones from PoE itself, if anybody is up to doing that. How one can extract these woods in highest resolution from game files?

-- The same for buttons, if it's possible to see some compatible with overall PoE UI. Additionally, it's good to keep those which go together with all the U textures. I guess, something in color similar to the central HUD or framing?

-- Also, if you have bigger buttons for the menu, wouldn't that make the other buttons and portraits look small?

-- The height of the bottom panel is because of the abilities?

-- From Sensuki's video, I take the abilities work the same as in game. Would it be too much to ask whether it's possible to add some toggle (in IE menu?) to switch off the mouseover behavior?

As these icons are small and nearby, it's easy accidentally moseover the next spell level when you are trying to choose from the other one, for example. That's really annoying and I would see it as an improvement, when you click on the thing then it stays there... But perhaps being the only one.

-- If there is desire to make portraits bigger: Is there some possibility of resize transformation done within the code? It's easy to make an imagemagic script to resize bigger character images in the portraits directory, or so. But you cannot control what is done on the user's side...

 

[Sensuki]

As these icons are really small, for example, it's easy accidentally moseover the next spell level when you are trying to choose from the other one. That's really annoying and I would see it as an improvement, when you click on the thing then it stays there... But perhaps being the only one.

What are you talking about?

 

[ushas]

There is a submenu switch when you mouse over things like spell levels and weapon sets. And it changes on mouseover again even when you click on it before.

Well I saw it in many modern programs, so it's probably intended behavior.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

since throwing down a bunch of cash for Unity Pro wont be an option for most folks

There's a way to make a Unity based tool to allow the modification of assets, but I don't see why anyone would bother doing that just cause some people are too brainwashed to install utorrent. Fargo is doing that for W2 though, but he's got resources and a dream.

So, because UE4 became free yesterday, Unity reacted today by making itself free as well...

If Unity 5 encodes assets the same way as 4.6 did, then you can edit PoE's assets without torrents now.

 

[Rostere]

That is good news. Not for my free time, that is.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Updated the asset editor in case people want to start tweaking stuff: http://rien-ici.com/iemod/asset_editor
(didn't test it though)

 

[Shevek]

This is great news. I can't wait to dive in once the full game comes out and we see what data OE externalizes. I really hope we are able to make new classes (I will make myself some ghetto multiclasses) and fiddle with things like weapon styles (to make one-handed style better), talents, etc.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

What makes you think they'll externalize more assets at release?

Also, if you want to make a new class, you'd have to import assets into assets (abilities into a progression table), and the asset editor doesn't currently support it (cause you can only open 1 asset at a time right now). Hmph. Well perhaps what would work instead is getting an ability with Disunity and then putting it into the progression table with the asset editor. Might work, if Disunity exports stuff correctly. There's no reason to wait for release, in my opinion, cause it takes time to understand the tools and to experiment with the assets.

Yesterday, for instance, Sensuki just wanted to change a numerical value of a shield, and we spent 2 hours figuring out why the shield became textureless after he modified it. Stuff like that, you'll encounter it too, so it's never too early to start.

 

[Shevek]

Thanks for the advice. Maybe I'll muck about with it this weekend. I really should try to familiarize myself with the tools.