Pillars of Eternity Thread [Pre-Expansion]

[Darth Roxor]

Ranged fighter in armor and tanky items, putting multiple magical items with the same non-stacking effects on the same character... no wonder you have to cheese your way through the game.

Hardly tanky, it's like 25% recovery penalty at best, and I like to have that DR vs all sorts of ranged fags. P. sure these magical items dont have the same effects. I don't have to cheese my way through the game.

nice try tho

 

[Bubbles]

I don't have to cheese my way through the game.

All I wanted to hear.

 

[Shadenuat]

The problem most players will/are suffering from is only 1 tank probably, same as in the beta. You can only catch 3 fishies in a net with Eder, armor is not the best way to avoid damage - very high Deflection is better, so you're stuck with 10-12 enemies vs 1 tank. That's why most will have to resort to chokepoints/humping walls&corners and killing shit with spells. Because if you can't control flow of combat, it's easier to just finish it in one opener.

 

[Mortmal]

Just curious if anyone can defend the game design decisions that went into ghost-type enemies constantly teleporting, en masse, to the wizard's location to Engage and instagib him... even if I leave him halfway across the map and creep him up mid-battle. As soon as he starts to do something useful, he dies.

Not that I can't finish encounters, but I'm tired of resting constantly due to there being absolutely no way to counter this behavior, other than leaving the wizard in another room.

What i am doing is pulling them with a rogue stealthed, using fire arm then escape ability when close of the warrior . Iposition the warrior a bit ahead of the group, they aggro him and dont go for the wizard, move the wizard on the side, blow them all with a cone of fire .

The temple of eothas is much harder than the other maps, it hink you have to level before and do the beach then rodrick castle before.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I don't have to cheese my way through the game.

All I wanted to hear.

of course now i cant even cheese my way through the game because i'm stuck in a sealed limbo that is raedric's keep

 

[Owlish]

Yes, while your actions have weight (and they do already through other C&C) a main factor in how people percieve you has the biggest impact in how you are viewed.

Like you can come off as helpful and as a jackass by doing the same action

Extreme example

Glad I could help

vs

Man you guys couldn't have done this without me

There are other factors too like body language but thats harder to emulate.

And it doesn't have to be that obvious. Its a lot of the little things that over time give people in general an impression of you

Subtelty!.

Edit: Same way you come now off as a complete jackass by posting these pictures instead of making the same argument but formulate differently.

Edit2: In terms of honesty this means by speaking honestly, you are getting to be known as honest.

Edit3: Not that the system doesn't have a few problems and needs a bit of stretching. Its still a million times better and more flexible than good/evil rep.

Honesty in opinion and honesty in business aren't even the same thing.

Saying "I don't know" to some question doesn't mean you are honest in general.

 

[Brzęczyszczykiewicz]

of course now i cant even cheese my way through the game because i'm stuck in a sealed limbo that is raedric's keep

And so perfect balance has been achieved.

 

[Hegel]

Funny how we bitched and moaned about the game being balanced around every build is the same, and yet so many codexers are having trouble with basic fights. In PoE II retardo will be the new normal difficulty I guess.
Don't play PoTD, Raedric can two-shot your tank (and that's why you need to be creative, start reading shit and actually use every advantage the game throws at you).

 

[Grunker]

I don't have to cheese my way through the game.

All I wanted to hear.

of course now i cant even cheese my way through the game because i'm stuck in a sealed limbo that is raedric's keep

Did you try the workaround posted earlier?

 

[Ovplain]

13 hours into it, I'm having a lot of fun. That's it.

 

[Cromwell]

How exactly do I differentiate between I am not supposed to kill that and I am to much of an idiot to kill that? (same gioes for dungeons or sidequests)? For example I died to two forrest lurkers a moment ago, then reloaded, kitet them seperated them, summoned a phantom and killed them. Until now I did only quests in gilded veil. The question now is, was it supposed to be like that or are these creatures not meant to be killed when you enter the black meadow for the first time?

 

[Bubbles]

How exactly do I differentiate between I am not supposed to kill that and I am to much of an idiot to kill that? (same gioes for dungeons or sidequests)? For example I died to two forrest lurkers a moment ago, then reloaded, kitet them seperated them, summoned a phantom and killed them. Until now I did only quests in gilded veil. The question now is, was it supposed to be like that or are these creatures not meant to be killed when you enter the black meadow for the first time?

Why do you care?

 

[mutonizer]

Don't play PoTD, Raedric can two-shot your tank (and that's why you need to be creative, start reading shit and actually use every advantage the game throws at you).

That's why I love (non cheese) PotD and really embraced "combat doesn't give XP". Makes level 4 nobodies think twice about saying "fuck off" to a dude, in his own castle, surrounded by his guards.

 

[Merlkir]

How exactly do I differentiate between I am not supposed to kill that and I am to much of an idiot to kill that? (same gioes for dungeons or sidequests)? For example I died to two forrest lurkers a moment ago, then reloaded, kitet them seperated them, summoned a phantom and killed them. Until now I did only quests in gilded veil. The question now is, was it supposed to be like that or are these creatures not meant to be killed when you enter the black meadow for the first time?

It took me like 4 tries to kill those. They're lvl 9. I didn't want to leave a part of the map unexplored and a fight I'd leave and have to get back to. I guess either way works?

 

[Cromwell]

How exactly do I differentiate between I am not supposed to kill that and I am to much of an idiot to kill that? (same gioes for dungeons or sidequests)? For example I died to two forrest lurkers a moment ago, then reloaded, kitet them seperated them, summoned a phantom and killed them. Until now I did only quests in gilded veil. The question now is, was it supposed to be like that or are these creatures not meant to be killed when you enter the black meadow for the first time?

Why do you care?

Because I am not sure if I do something wrong (which would mean I can try different things) or I could just come back later. The Bear burned me, I tried every tactic I had when I first found him still died and just did it later, now I am unsure if its the game or me every time I die.

It took me like 4 tries to kill those. They're lvl 9. I didn't want to leave a part of the map unexplored and a fight I'd leave and have to get back to. I guess either way works?

Good to know. Also I am an Idiot, I thought the bestiary only shows stats if you fought against monsters a few times, I play on normal so they are level 7 for me, should have checked that earlier.

 

[Grunker]

Hey how are people finding the consumables? I experimented a lot with different ones (healing, buffs, etc.) but I'm not really finding them worthwhile spending the action time on. Am I wrong?

 

[mutonizer]

Because I am not sure if I do something wrong (which would mean I can try different things) or I could just come back later. The Bear burned me, I tried every tactic I had when I first found him still died and just did it later, now I am unsure if its the game or me every time I die.

The game itself doesn't care really, you don't get XP from any combat per se either.
Usually I go like this: "Does this thing in front of me look badass compared to my dudes?". If the answer is "yes" or "not sure", then I don't risk it. If the answer is "peace of cake", I just do it if I feel it fits whatever I think my character would do in that situation. When I faced the bear (and his 2 cubs), I was alone, without much reason to check things out, so I just left. When I saw the forest lurkers..well....I fucked up because I unstealthed by mistake and got wiped, but otherwise I'd have left them alone.

That's why humans are really hard overall. Apart from their gear sometimes, you have no clue whatsoever how powerful they are and you could try to gank a naked drunk guy down the alley for fun, only to realize it's a frikkin master monk who kicks your butt

Hey how are people finding the consumables? I experimented a lot with different ones (healing, buffs, etc.) but I'm not really finding them worthwhile spending the action time on. Am I wrong?

During combat? Potions of healing, maybe scroll of endurance. I also deck front liners with lore 2 or 3 and have them carry some cone of flames (or whatever that wizard 1 spell is), just in case shit REALLY hit the fan.
I always got my guys on Ale/Beer though while adventuring, and pump up survival on everyone for a bit better lasting time. Sometimes vegies and whatnot as well while doing a bit of endless paths but it's minor..

edit: That +DEF potion until hit is also pretty nice on engagements, especially against rogue types and whatnot, makes them waste their per encounter abilities.

 

[Maculo]

I have Eder pop endurance potions when things get desperate (multiple characters are knocked out and I do not want to reload). I have not used any of the other consumables.

Also, I am a huge fan of the scrolls right now. I think they can make a big difference depending on what class you play. Scroll of shocking touch and fan of flames can save a fight and they are only level 1 scrols.

 

[Grunker]

During combat? Potions of healing, maybe scroll of endurance. I also deck front liners with lore 2 or 3 and have them carry some cone of flames (or whatever that wizard 1 spell is), just in case shit REALLY hit the fan.
I always got my guys on Ale/Beer though while adventuring, and pump up survival on everyone for a bit better lasting time. Sometimes vegies and whatnot as well while doing a bit of endless paths but it's minor..

Yeah during. I should have said potions really, I do love using scrolls for more difficulty fights, yep. But potions never seem to do much, it's hard to judge honestly though, which is why I am asking. Haven't used alcohol yet but I've been meaning to try.

 

[Hegel]

During combat? Potions of healing, maybe scroll of endurance. I also deck front liners with lore 2 or 3 and have them carry some cone of flames (or whatever that wizard 1 spell is), just in case shit REALLY hit the fan.
I always got my guys on Ale/Beer though while adventuring, and pump up survival on everyone for a bit better lasting time. Sometimes vegies and whatnot as well while doing a bit of endless paths but it's minor..

Yeah during. I should have said potions really, I do love using scrolls for more difficulty fights, yep. But potions never seem to do much, it's hard to judge honestly though, which is why I am asking. Haven't used alcohol yet but I've been meaning to try.

That's because fights are too fast on normal/hard. Try engaging the Outlaw in PoTD mode, that's when different weapons/damage reductions and buffs/consumables come into play (or a moon godlike).

 

[mutonizer]

Yeah during. I should have said potions really, I do love using scrolls for more difficulty fights, yep. But potions never seem to do much, it's hard to judge honestly though, which is why I am asking.

Bit hard to say with potions, especially the "over time regen" ones. Direct endurance gain ones are better in my book but riskier as I seem to get interrupted and whatnot quite often and have to regive drink order sometimes..not sure how to describe it, it's a bit weird.
Otherwise it's really for "oh shit oh fuck" situations, or to try and turn things around (like a quick heal from scroll with my chanter, while I re-position the priest, etc). I'm broke most of the time so not gulping them like candy yet

Haven't used alcohol yet but I've been meaning to try.

Nothing awesome but +1/2 DR for everyone is nice and Ale/Beer is really cheap. Just got to Defiance Bay and found an ingredient vendor so I'll be able to check out recipes more in depth now but as said, that's all pre-fights.

That's because fights are too fast on normal/hard. Try engaging the Outlaw in PoTD mode, that's when different weapons/damage reductions and buffs/consumables come into play (or a moon godlike).

Yea PotD here as well, probably makes them more interesting indeed.

 

[Infinitron]

The dialogue system have benevolent, stoic, passionate, cruel system which is bioware crap.

FYI that system is taken directly from the design docs of Black Isle's Baldur's Gate 3: The Black Hound

I really wanted to like this

 

[roshan]

Simple overreaction and lies.

1. Character do attack whoever you click on while engaging multiple targets. Maybe you were "disabled" or it was some bug.
2. Combat is NOT random due to engagement. I only engage with fighters while flanking and maneuvering with everyone else - l2p.
3. Spells/Abilities: Daze, Knocking down foes, Stun all do their major part, also early on.
4. LOL at weapon strategy and tactics in BG. You want reliable weapon damage? Observe DR in combat log, switch to different dmg type OR use slower, but hard-hitting weapons.

You seem to encounter some buggy commands in combat, but to say that it's a general state of affairs is a lie. I never had problems with this.



Yep, pathfinding sometimes screws you up, learn and adapt. True BG experience, by the way. Happens rarely and mostly you see it coming. Enemies regenarating HP, do you play on hard?

1. Unfortunately I often experience situations where my characters switch targets during combat, and despite trying to command them to attack other enemies, they do not. Could be bugged AI?

2. Combat is very much random due to engagement and running because you can find your characters very randomly stuck in certain locations and be unable to do anything about it. I currently use my rogue and Edair on the front line, and usually use disablers like knockdown so the rogue can get in sneak attacks. But shit happens so quickly and randomly that sometimes I find my rogue and Edair separated from each other, sometimes enemies randomly weasel their way through choke points, sometimes the big baddie gets in front and engages, sometimes the lackeys are in front and engage. This works totally differently from the IE games, in the IE games, if a horde of monsters heads towards your party, you can be sure that the nearest monster will reach your party first, and the furthest will reach last. This let you make accurate, correct and clear decisions regarding how to position your characters, who to cast spells on, who to pelt with ranged weapons, and so on and so forth. In POE, sometimes I pelt the nearest enemy with ranged weapons only to find that for some weird ass reason, it ends up being the furthest from the party and meanwhile I am engaged in melee by enemies with full health, and the enemy I pelted is now safely regenerating behind others. It's a random, luck based process without any predictable logic or pattern.

3. Will admit that I still need to study the spells further (though I already make good use of the abilities when they actually fire off). I got discouraged from tinkering with spells after that retarded version of web. Assumed many of the other spells would also be borderline useless.

4. Combat log is a clusterfuck of engagement related messages. Things happen so fast that the messages pile up and become a serious mess to search through. I waste enough time looking through it trying to find out if I have succeeded with knockdown or critical strike, etc. What I meant regarding strategy and tactics was actually not weapon related. What I meant was that in Icewind Dale 2 for example, since the to hit system was based on a solid core logic (rolling a D20, adding your bonus, then subtracting the enemy's defenses....), you could easily predict whether your characters would hit or not. You could basically do the math in your head and it would be accurate. In PoE I do not know of any core logical element that governs whether I miss, graze, hit or crit. There's tons of large bloated numbers that have no meaning at all. In IWD2, +1 BAB meant something and was a significant advantage. Every little +1 had meaning and you knew how that translated into combat performance. Therefore, misses and hits were predictable. And therefore you always had an idea of how much damage you were doing. Since you knew that, you could then figure out tactics to complement that. Buff the fighters, debuff the enemies, use crowd control, attack with spells, etc. Since you had a system that was easily estimated and understood, you could then use it to your advantage.

 

[Athelas]

4. Combat log is a clusterfuck of engagement related messages. Things happen so fast that the messages pile up and become a serious mess to search through. I waste enough time looking through it trying to find out if I have succeeded with knockdown or critical strike, etc. What I meant regarding strategy and tactics was actually not weapon related. What I meant was that in Icewind Dale 2 for example, since the to hit system was based on a solid core logic (rolling a D20, adding your bonus, then subtracting the enemy's defenses....), you could easily predict whether your characters would hit or not. You could basically do the math in your head and it would be accurate. In PoE I do not know of any core logical element that governs whether I miss, graze, hit or crit.

See that giant cyclopedia button?

 

[Roguey]

"armor is useless for ranged and casters because it just slows them down for no benefit because they never get hit"

"these enemies keep attacking my ranged and casters"

Hey, nice strawman farm you got there.

It's not a strawman when it's something people actually said (based purely on the content of the backer beta, which they assumed applied to the entire game )

Plus it's still true. There are many cases where it's better to leave ranged/casters in clothing/enchanted clothing. Just not when fighting guys like these. This is Josh's intention.