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Planescape: Adventures in the Multiverse

Gyor

Savant
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Messages
731
Well the maps for Sigil & the Outlands are out and Planescape: Adventures in the Multiverse appears to still be alignment based in structure.

The 16 Gatetown are still there on the e C as are many of the divine domains, although Tir Na Og, Tir Fo Thuinn, Teshvri's Realms, are gone replaced on the map by Wonderhome and the Cradle of Life. They also added Dendradis a new place, I suspect it's a domain for Dendar the Night Serpent.

The 13 old Faction HQ are still their and their names are bolded in red compared to the blue of other landmarks on the Sigil map. Still there is suppposed to be 12 new Ascended Factions.

Incantiers are back, but I don't know if they are a new faction or not.
 

Erebus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
4,771
Incantifiers aren't exactly the most original sect ever invented by Planescape. The Ring-Givers or the Mathematicians would have been much better choices.

The fact that gatetowns are still there is good news. They're pretty much the most interesting thing about the Outlands.

Adding more factions is not a bad idea in itself, but I wonder if there'll be enough space to properly detail them.
 

PapaPetro

Guest
They're pretty much the most interesting thing about the Outlands.
The Infinite Spire is one the most interesting thing for me there. It nullifies/equalizes even the Powers so it seems like the most neutral/realist ground in all existences.
I'd imagine it'd be a great location for a type of God Cold War setting centered around a mundane & clandestine safe house next to the Spire where the factional gods/proxies/agents would meet and negotiate "business".
It could be managed/mediated by the native Rilmani.

Also, I like the idea of annual competitions of planars eternally getting together to try to scale the Infinite Spire; like some sort of multiversal community tradition/Olympic competition.
Every year they mark the furthest distance they get on infinity.
 
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RaggleFraggle

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Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
1,059
I’m surprised they kept the Faction War and its aftermath canon. I’m pretty sure that was intended as a swansong ending with a bang because the writers knew they were canceled. Why invent a new set of factions that returning fans have no emotional investment in? You’re just asking for an edition war.

Also, how do they reconcile the astral plane being retconned into the material plane’s outer space? Can spelljammers just fly you to heaven and hell like they’re planets now?
 

Gyor

Savant
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Messages
731
Well the maps for Sigil & the Outlands are out and Planescape: Adventures in the Multiverse appears to still be alignment based in structure.
Where do I find those maps in high-res?
Well the maps for Sigil & the Outlands are out and Planescape: Adventures in the Multiverse appears to still be alignment based in structure.
Where do I find those maps in high-res?

Here you go. For price of the product the maps should have been cloth instead of paper.

994527c2958165ceabb6f1da36872da0_1920_kr-png.290388
143b05dfd00749098f9dd42d298bb388_1920_kr-png.290387
55b78a1d3aa73503dcb340a8d0a210f8_1920_kr-png.290386
 

Erebus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
4,771
Is that Shemeshka the Marauder on the cover of "Turn of Fortune's Wheel" ? It looks more like a Kitsune than an Arcanaloth.
 

PapaPetro

Guest
Is that Shemeshka the Marauder on the cover of "Turn of Fortune's Wheel" ? It looks more like a Kitsune than an Arcanaloth.
Regardless I'm hoping more the latter but it's most likely the former.
I mean her visual aesthetics don't even look daemonic, so it's gotta be a kitsu.



Now this is a "high class" Sigil daemon.
I mean woof .

And let's take a second to drink in Tony's work here.
You got the a jackal grotesque face offset by the shapley and elegant body; the angling of the polished mirror to literally reflect her status, power and grace in the City of Doors (but just a reflection, not her true daemonic self/essence); the look of fear/awe of the planar peon servant in the presence of this metaphysical mover-&-shaker.
Visual verisimilitude folks; this is how you make it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ind33d

Educated
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
986
I’m surprised they kept the Faction War and its aftermath canon. I’m pretty sure that was intended as a swansong ending with a bang because the writers knew they were canceled. Why invent a new set of factions that returning fans have no emotional investment in? You’re just asking for an edition war.

Also, how do they reconcile the astral plane being retconned into the material plane’s outer space? Can spelljammers just fly you to heaven and hell like they’re planets now?
the smart thing to do would have been making Planescape the official base lore of Magic: the Gathering so that they could release card sets for Dark Sun, Spelljammer, Neverwinter, etc. to replace Magic Core Sets and create brand synergy with the new D&D 5e campaign setting books

literally why are Magic: the Gathering and Planescape not the same IP? Vancian casting? Fuck off
 

RaggleFraggle

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1,059
literally why are Magic: the Gathering and Planescape not the same IP? Vancian casting? Fuck off
I’ve sometimes heard of comic book publishers buying smaller ones and incorporating the characters into their IP, but I’ve never heard of IPs on the scale of MtG or D&D being merged into each other. Crossover, certainly, but never a merger.

Has anyone else heard of that?
 

Erebus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
4,771
I mean her visual aesthetics don't even look daemonic

True enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if WotC had simply decided that a sexy fox lady would be more popular with potential buyers than a jackal-headed fiend.

In the entry about Shemeshka in Faces of Sigil, it's mentioned that she can often be found in a bar named "Fortune's Wheel". It seems extremely unlikely that the title of the adventure is just a coincidence.
 

Caim

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
15,717
Location
Dutchland
literally why are Magic: the Gathering and Planescape not the same IP? Vancian casting? Fuck off
I’ve sometimes heard of comic book publishers buying smaller ones and incorporating the characters into their IP, but I’ve never heard of IPs on the scale of MtG or D&D being merged into each other. Crossover, certainly, but never a merger.

Has anyone else heard of that?
Closest I can think of is Alien and Predator.
 

RaggleFraggle

Ask me about VTM
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
1,059
I mean her visual aesthetics don't even look daemonic

True enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if WotC had simply decided that a sexy fox lady would be more popular with potential buyers than a jackal-headed fiend.

In the entry about Shemeshka in Faces of Sigil, it's mentioned that she can often be found in a bar named "Fortune's Wheel". It seems extremely unlikely that the title of the adventure is just a coincidence.
Technically “she”, like all yugoloths, is a herm.

I hope that isn’t the reason why WotC suddenly display so much interest in “her” when she’s just another minor NPC, but they’re probably gonna cynically promote “her” as transgender intersex bigender representation.
 

Akachi

Educated
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
142
Location
The First Gloom
Came across some info on the upcoming Planescape 5e boxset, and most excitingly, on the included high level module adventure Turn of Fortune’s Wheel previously described as being about trying to unravel the plot behind a "glitch in reality in the multiverse." Coming this October to a table hopefully nowhere near you: Planescape: Torment's story copy pasted into an epic level 5e knockoff adventure!

Of course, the designers "didn't want to spoil the adventure too much." No doubt they are very proud of coming up with it all by themselves. :lol: :lol: :lol:
https://rpgbot.net/gen-con-2023-con-report-pf2-starfinder-2e-planescape-and-more/ said:
The Planescape box set includes a setting book, an adventure, and a DM screen. WotC heard the feedback following Spelljammer, and when everyone said “larger books, please”, they took that feedback to heart. Spelljammer’s biggest shortcoming was the small amount of content relative to the physical size of the box, and it appears that there is much more in Planescape.

The book which includes player options has 8 new feats. It follows the same design direction as Dragonlance: Shadow of the Dragon Queen, so there are backgrounds which offer 1st-level feats, plus 4th-level feats which have those feats as prerequisites. I didn’t have enough time to memorize everything, but one of the 1st-level feats grants a cantrip and permanent damage resistance to one damage type, both of which are paired and tied thematically to one of the planes. I believe it was called “Planar Scion”. The other feats are similarly themed around the planes.

The designers didn’t want to spoil the adventure too much, did share some details. A talking skull from previous Planescape content named “Mort” appears repeatedly. The adventure starts with players awakening in a morgue. The multiverse is a heavy theme throughout. Players are functionally immortal; reappearing as a different version of themselves upon death following specific rules which we didn’t have time to explore. The adventure runs from level 3 to 10, then takes a jump up to level 17 for the climax of the adventure.

We asked about the practical parts of how the level jump worked. The designers explained that most players never get a chance to experience high-level play, and that high-level play comes with a lot of complexity. By level 10, players fully understand their characters and their mechanics, so jumping to level 17 was seen as a gap which players could comfortably bridge without being overwhelmed. The design team knows there is almost no official high-level content, and they were excited to offer something in that niche.

WotC brought back the original Planescape artist, and it shows. The new art fits perfectly alongside 2e-era pieces, and really captures the same weirdness which has been the visual signature of Planescape. Among the art pieces, there is a train with a mustache and lips, and the art of said train was met with mixed opinions in the room ranging from “terrifying but hilarious” to “this is the pinnacle of locomotive technology.” The DM screen art features a githyanki, a green slaad, the lady of pain, an anxious-looking human woman, and a few other characters, and the whole thing has a wonderful, odd, cartoony feel that I’m very excited about.

Following the round-table, the designers had a few more minutes, and both Makenzie and Wesley stuck around to look through the products with us. Wesley talked to Randall and me about Planescape, and pointed out that the DM screen was the first time that they changed the art for conditions. Rather than the classic art of an ogre, there’s now new art including an unconscious modron. The screen also features quick reference information for the planes and for Sigil which will be helpful while navigating Planescape.
 

Erebus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
4,771
The fact that the adventure is blatantly ripping off Torment is not encouraging, but I'm more worried about the train with a mustache and lips.
 

Cross

Arcane
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
3,000
I can understand wanting to utilize Torment, since it added a lot of cool stuff to the Planescape setting, from locations like the Modron Maze and the Brothel of Intellectual Lusts to all the lore involving Zerthimon and the Githzerai.

But literally copy-pasting Torment's story is the dumbest way they could do it.
 

Fedora Master

Arcane
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
28,115
I can understand wanting to utilize Torment, since it added a lot of cool stuff to the Planescape setting, from locations like the Modron Maze and the Brothel of Intellectual Lusts to all the lore involving Zerthimon and the Githzerai.

But literally copy-pasting Torment's story is the dumbest way they could do it.
Secondaries know about TNO and Mort. They don't know nothing about Brothels or Zerthimons. Which do you think moves more copies?
 

Grauken

Gourd vibes only
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
12,803
I’m surprised they kept the Faction War and its aftermath canon. I’m pretty sure that was intended as a swansong ending with a bang because the writers knew they were canceled. Why invent a new set of factions that returning fans have no emotional investment in? You’re just asking for an edition war.

Also, how do they reconcile the astral plane being retconned into the material plane’s outer space? Can spelljammers just fly you to heaven and hell like they’re planets now?
the smart thing to do would have been making Planescape the official base lore of Magic: the Gathering so that they could release card sets for Dark Sun, Spelljammer, Neverwinter, etc. to replace Magic Core Sets and create brand synergy with the new D&D 5e campaign setting books

literally why are Magic: the Gathering and Planescape not the same IP? Vancian casting? Fuck off

Because MtG is shit
 

0wca

Learned
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
526
Location
Not here
The downgraded art style will complement the downgraded quality of the setting and worldbuilding nicely. :balance:



FsUY5cHWwAEig5A

She looks like the Weeb of Pain.
About the alignment thing, they could leave the chaos x order axis as is and cut out good x evil. Then explain the heavens and hells as originating from mythologies around existence. Voila, no good x evil bullshit.
You want I should take your bucket and give you a fire hose instead so you can water down more stuff into your digestible crap?
> Get Tony DiTerlizzi back on board to draw Planescape art again.
> Codex hates this "new shit".

:lol::lol::lol:

It's not surprising that his art style has changed during the past 25 years.

Has it changed for the better ? According to him :

Improving as an artist is incremental. It has taken years for me to realize my technical skills have advanced. One exercise that helped me is to revisit older pieces.

One of the older pieces in question is this eladrin from 1995 :

Ftmqg03XoAEbl2v


And the newer version from 2020 :

FtmqiGSXoAAsa62



The 1995 eladrin is one of my 4-5 favorite Planescape drawings. But the newer one is very good too (well, except for her eyes).

Expecting the art to be exactly the same as in the 90s is a sure road to disappointment.
The original pic actually looks "original". It has character, and the watercolor-like coloring gives it a unique feel.

The second is generic deviant art concept art shit.
So, Morte will be the narrator for the monster book. Very interesting. Between this and making the book about Sigil and the Outlands (rather than Outer Planes) they seem to be having the right ideas.

I'm cautiously optimistic.
While I welcome Morte as the narrator, he's going to be woke Morte yapping about the benefits of inclusion and diversity of Sigil.

Might as well call it Wigil.
Not bad.

new-planescape-5e-cover-art.png


"Wizards of the Coast follows up last year's introduction of Spelljammer: Adventures in Space with the second in the line reviving classic D&D campaign settings: Planescape: Adventures in the Multiverse. The new collection returns players to Planescape, the critically-acclaimed and fan beloved setting initially released in 1994, and perhaps best known for the 1999 video game Planescape Torment.

The campaign collection is sold as a box set containing three hardcover books: Sigil and the Outlands, a 96-page guide describing the setting and its central city Sigil, home to portals connecting to every corner of the multiverse; Morte's Planar Parade, a 64-page bestiary of "impossible beings" and "nonstop weird" monsters; and Turn of Fortune's Wheel, a 96-page adventure that takes players across the Outlands to discover "a plot to undermine the rules of reality."

Adventures in the Multiverse and all its components will be available on October 16. The box set comes with a two-sided poster map and a DM screen; a limited edition version with box art by original Planescape artist Tony DiTerlizzi will be available through local game stores."

Source: https://themessenger.com/entertainment/these-are-dungeons-dragons-new-products-for-2023
Ok, that is a much better version of the Lady of Pain. I wonder how much the artists wanna make things look actually cool and how much WotC is like:

"No make it more anime-like..."
planescape setting will be perfect for the inclusion of gays, drag queens, refugees and black people
Dude, why do you think they finally went and "updated" this setting?

Sigil was already a town where you could actually see beings from all over the multiverse.

It's not gonna take a lot of adjustments to make the lore suit their ideology.
 

0wca

Learned
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
526
Location
Not here
After Ravenloft and Spelljammer, it's now Planescape's turn to be updated for 5th Edition. "Planescape : Adventures in the Multiverse" should be released in the last quarter of this year. And DiTerlizzi's doing at least some of the art.

Why ? Well, WotC has apparently decided to jump on the bandwagon of multiverses :

Dungeons and Dragons is setting itself up to be a multiverse in a major way, with Wizards of the Coast really emphasising this aspect of its adventures and upcoming stories during the DnD livestream on Tuesday.

In this presentation, designers Chris Perkins and Jeremy Crawford said they set the foundations for the DnD multiverse back in 2014, and promised more world-hopping adventures to come.

In all likelihood, they'll focus on everything that allows the PCs to regularly move from one banal D&D world to the next, and will completely fail to capture the appeal of Planescape. The Outer Planes, the power of belief, having to use more that just spells and magic swords to solve problems ? We'll be lucky if those things get more than a brief mention.

Well, everything's possible, so I guess the book might turn out to be half-decent. But the fact that 2024 will see the release of a big adventure involving Vecna reminds me of the steaming piece of shit that was technically the last Planescape adventure ever released, and that's not an encouraging thought.

Let me give you an idea of what's coming down the pipeline.


The Lady of Pain's gender will be put into question. Is she a lady at all? Is she trans? Therefore, she'll be branded as non-binary and this will give credence to the idea that Sigil was her idea of making a town of inclusion and diversity.

This is supported by the fact that alignments are getting axed. Therefore, all the fiends and other unsavories walking around Sigil are "not really evil just misunderstood, because every fiend is basically Fall-from-Grace".

Thus, Sigil is going to be a "safe space" for all beings, especially those fleeing oppression from other planes.

And so, of course, they'll have to make a villain or a villainous faction that seeks to end this diversity. Maybe by shutting down portals in the city?


Don't believe me?


 

0wca

Learned
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
526
Location
Not here
Came across some info on the upcoming Planescape 5e boxset, and most excitingly, on the included high level module adventure Turn of Fortune’s Wheel previously described as being about trying to unravel the plot behind a "glitch in reality in the multiverse." Coming this October to a table hopefully nowhere near you: Planescape: Torment's story copy pasted into an epic level 5e knockoff adventure!

Of course, the designers "didn't want to spoil the adventure too much." No doubt they are very proud of coming up with it all by themselves. :lol: :lol: :lol:
https://rpgbot.net/gen-con-2023-con-report-pf2-starfinder-2e-planescape-and-more/ said:
The Planescape box set includes a setting book, an adventure, and a DM screen. WotC heard the feedback following Spelljammer, and when everyone said “larger books, please”, they took that feedback to heart. Spelljammer’s biggest shortcoming was the small amount of content relative to the physical size of the box, and it appears that there is much more in Planescape.

The book which includes player options has 8 new feats. It follows the same design direction as Dragonlance: Shadow of the Dragon Queen, so there are backgrounds which offer 1st-level feats, plus 4th-level feats which have those feats as prerequisites. I didn’t have enough time to memorize everything, but one of the 1st-level feats grants a cantrip and permanent damage resistance to one damage type, both of which are paired and tied thematically to one of the planes. I believe it was called “Planar Scion”. The other feats are similarly themed around the planes.

The designers didn’t want to spoil the adventure too much, did share some details. A talking skull from previous Planescape content named “Mort” appears repeatedly. The adventure starts with players awakening in a morgue. The multiverse is a heavy theme throughout. Players are functionally immortal; reappearing as a different version of themselves upon death following specific rules which we didn’t have time to explore. The adventure runs from level 3 to 10, then takes a jump up to level 17 for the climax of the adventure.

We asked about the practical parts of how the level jump worked. The designers explained that most players never get a chance to experience high-level play, and that high-level play comes with a lot of complexity. By level 10, players fully understand their characters and their mechanics, so jumping to level 17 was seen as a gap which players could comfortably bridge without being overwhelmed. The design team knows there is almost no official high-level content, and they were excited to offer something in that niche.

WotC brought back the original Planescape artist, and it shows. The new art fits perfectly alongside 2e-era pieces, and really captures the same weirdness which has been the visual signature of Planescape. Among the art pieces, there is a train with a mustache and lips, and the art of said train was met with mixed opinions in the room ranging from “terrifying but hilarious” to “this is the pinnacle of locomotive technology.” The DM screen art features a githyanki, a green slaad, the lady of pain, an anxious-looking human woman, and a few other characters, and the whole thing has a wonderful, odd, cartoony feel that I’m very excited about.

Following the round-table, the designers had a few more minutes, and both Makenzie and Wesley stuck around to look through the products with us. Wesley talked to Randall and me about Planescape, and pointed out that the DM screen was the first time that they changed the art for conditions. Rather than the classic art of an ogre, there’s now new art including an unconscious modron. The screen also features quick reference information for the planes and for Sigil which will be helpful while navigating Planescape.

So they're just blatantly copy-pasting Torment into an adventure and calling it their own creation, huh? Doesn't surprise me, since these fuckers haven't come up with anything original in the past 2 decades.

And what's with the whole "jump to lvl 17" bullshit? God forbid they actually make content that takes you to that level.


Also, this map of Sigil (while it does look OK art-wise) makes the town look really small.
994527c2958165ceabb6f1da36872da0_1920_kr-png.290388

Compare it the original here:



Sry for the triple post, but this is my favorite setting and they're shitting all over it.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,782
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
The original box map was actually this one:

Sigil_map-2600_(1994)_TSR_AD&D_2ed_Planescape_Campaign_Setting.jpg


While the new one feels smaller, it also enhances the style of buildings more. So they're both good for me.

About Sigil being inclusive: it always was. So they enhancing this aspect (if they do it at all, we don't know yet) is only keeping up with the original vibes.
 
Last edited:

Erebus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
4,771
Thus, Sigil is going to be a "safe space" for all beings, especially those fleeing oppression from other planes.

And so, of course, they'll have to make a villain or a villainous faction that seeks to end this diversity. Maybe by shutting down portals in the city?

In the original Planescape, the Harmonium was deliberately designed to be as oppressive, narrow-minded and intolerant as possible. They're also the least racially diverse faction, so it won't take much work to make them fit modern obsessions.

(And the Mercykillers are just as bad. The only faction that's strongly lawful yet not unlikable is the Fraternity of Order.)
 

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