Review Planescape: Torment - More Fanboy Love

[Pastel]

All in all, PS:T's companions definitely felt cheesy to me. I never felt this way about Arcanum's ones though, all of them were just your usual humans/elves/dwarves/etc, but most of them were interesting in their own they, however I admit they weren't as fleshed-out as PS:T's ones. If you don't count the final area, Arcanum had only one monster follower (Waromon, a lizard man) and the dog.

"weren't as fleshed out" meaning they were hardly anything than a portrait + leveling scheme combination, right? Save for a few exceptions, all of the companions basically had no writing at all.
And even those that did, like Magnus, were utterly uninteresting. It all came down to him pretending to be a dwarfy dwarf. Anyone could write dozens of characters like him, and had he been in a game other than Arcanum, you probably wouldn't have found him interesting at all.

I don't prefer games with companions, but when they are present, they'd better act the role rather than being laconic mercenaries except working without pay.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Anyway, here is a problem I have with articles like that one and what many people say about Torment.

It's that when people think of Torment, they can only think of the story. That's a problem. The part that baby arm quoted is really the only part that deals with what genuinely and consistently made the game entertaining.

I honestly think that it's ridiculous to praise any game for story or for story only. In the immortal words of John Carmack, "Story in a game matters just about as much a story in a porn movie". And he's right.

Because when you try to praise Torment, but begin and end with only the story, you have barely even touched the tip of the iceberg.

I would like to refer to the very correct statement made by Gareth/Naked Ninja, that the 'Experience' can only go so far in making the game entertaining, but it is the mechanics and gameplay which can make the game stand at all. It's just the latter we tend to take for granted.

This is what made Torment a great game:

Say the wrong thing to Ignus, and he would attack you. If you try to prod or push Vhailor, it may be the same what happens with Ignus, or he might choose to kill himself, or, if you do it right, you end up making him stronger and have him come to an important epiphany.

Bring Dak'kon with you, and certain githzerai would be more willing to speak with you. And yet, just as many githzerai would not be. Learning the language of the dead allows you to make conversation with certain dead characters, and this allows you to finish certain quests in a certain manner.

Find the severed arm that once belonged to you, and it would serve as a clue to discovering something about your past, and finding an old companion called Xachariah.

It was really these sort of mechanics that give Torment some good proper merit. And it was these mechanics that Mask Of The Betrayer improved upon, and even innovated further in many ways, which is why MotB is much superior to Torment.

Of course, these mechanics are ultimately an adventure game thing, and after discovering KGB, I have seen that there are games which do it even better, although the difference is that RPGs coordinate stats with them as well.

I mean, I am a RPG traditionalist, who thinks dungeon crawlers are the true root of the genre, and things like story and characters mean very little to me, and yet Torment managed to engage the interest of a person like me. And that's because there was something other than story in its package.

 

[Helton]

Listing Torment's strengths is hard to do. Listing its weaknesses is easier. Combat was poor. The main quest was locked in, sequential and, in some parts, not logical in progression. Curst Pt. 2 felt thrown together.

Other than that, it was gaming perfection.

 

[Forest Dweller]

What I mean is that no matter how seriously you take any videogame, there will always be an inherent cheesiness and corniness to them. It's a videogame, and it is meant to be cheesy and corny. Just like a comic book.

No. You are speaking of tendencies only. There is no rule that says video games have to be cheesy or corny. It's simply happened so much that some people think it is a given.

In videogames, we have men in oversized overcoats who wear shades even at night time (Deus Ex)

Ok, the trench coats were to hold all his weapons, and the sunglasses were to hide the tell-tale glint of purple in his eyes that revealed that he was nano-augmented.

I would have preffered if PS:T had relatively "normal" companions, as in a mage dude, a fighter dude, etc instead of freaks. There's no point in having such characters apart from apparent gimmicks. They could have easily made a believable pyromaniac without turning him into a living torch, but by just giving him interesting and complex dialog instead of hissing one-liners.

All in all, PS:T's companions definitely felt cheesy to me. I never felt this way about Arcanum's ones though, all of them were just your usual humans/elves/dwarves/etc, but most of them were interesting in their own they, however I admit they weren't as fleshed-out as PS:T's ones. If you don't count the final area, Arcanum had only one monster follower (Waromon, a lizard man) and the dog.

PS:T just reminds me of a case where developers decide to add as many "cool shit" to a game as possible, thus turning it into a theme park. Or a freak show.

You're forgetting one important thing, which is the Planescape universe. This is a setting where literally belief can make things real. This allows for a whole lot of wacky things that wouldn't make sense in other, more "ordinary" settings. I agree that in those types of settings PST's characters would not have fit, but in Planescape they were right at home. In fact, in Planescape characters like your ordinary dwarf, elf, etc. would be out of place.

And all the characters were unique. Sure, it had a succubus, but how about one who has given up on sex? There was a floating skull, but has there been one with Morte's personality? What about a warrior who has a blade that is shaped by his thoughts? Has that EVER been done before"?

I honestly think that it's ridiculous to praise any game for story or for story only. In the immortal words of John Carmack, "Story in a game matters just about as much a story in a porn movie". And he's right.

Sorry, but comparing video games to pornograghy is just stupid. The sole purpose of pornograghy is to arouse people. That's IT. The "story" in some of those is worse than any story in the most dumbed-down game. For the sake of trying to have a rational conversation with you, I'm going to pretend that you didn't post that quote.

Now, concerning story in video games, why not? Why can't games be just as valid a medium for conveying story as books and movies? Just because it adds another element (player interactivity) doesn't negate it's ability to convey story. In fact, in the best cases, it can enhance it. Here is a snippet from an interview with Chris Avellone that basically sums up my opinions:

What would you say to someone who told you that games have universally terrible stories?

Chris Avellone: I'd say game stories can be a little formulaic at times and a little unpolished, but then I would point up at the sky and say, "Holy s***, look at that!" And when they do, I would punch them in the gut, and while they were gasping for breath, I would lean down and go, "You are wrong. There are several games with compelling stories, stories that achieve greater strength because it's a story you can interact with. Thus, the experience is even more personal than reading a novel, where you are basically watching the characters go about their adventures without any participation from you except flicking your eyes across the page." At this point, the person would be about to get up, so I would kick them in the shins and then run.

 

[Annonchinil]

My problem with PS:T companions is that not all of them were not fleshed out equally, the game seems to have run out of budget near the end.

 

[Darth Roxor]

My problem with PS:T companions is that not all of them were not fleshed out equally, the game seems to have run out of budget near the end.

This is also a good point. I found it vastly disappointing that only some of the companions had cut-scenes in the Fortress of Regrets.

 

[janjetina]

All PS:T companions were at least good. Some, those who got enough attention from the developers, were great.
Most games where the companions had something to say made me want them to shut up. Planescape: Torment is a rare game where I wanted the companions to talk more. All PS:T companions have personalities, they don't seem like standard videogame cardboard cutouts (like the stereotypes present in Bioware games, starting back in '98. with Baldur's Gate).
Morte, Dakkon and Fall-From-Grace are my favorites, simply because they have more content than others,enabling their personalities to show in more detail. Others didn't get enough attention from the developers (I think that Vhailor suffered the most), were great concepts and their biggest flaw was lack of content, but the content that was present was brilliant. Still, their connection to TNO (in all his lifetimes) and the motives for following TNO were fully explored, resulting in a multitude of the "wow" moments as the connections are revealed.

 

[Ravn7]

immortal words of John Carmack, "Story in a game matters just about as much a story in a porn movie". And he's right.

It was some time ago. Now they hired a writer for Doom 4.

 

[Erebus]

I would have preffered if PS:T had relatively "normal" companions, as in a mage dude, a fighter dude, etc instead of freaks. There's no point in having such characters apart from apparent gimmicks. They could have easily made a believable pyromaniac without turning him into a living torch, but by just giving him interesting and complex dialog instead of hissing one-liners.

I understand your point but I disagree. The special natures of TNO's companions had many interesting consequences with regards to their behaviours, points of view, etc. Besides, what's wrong with originality ? I've seen or read about so many human wizards, dwarven fighters and elven rangers that they've all become a blur in my memory.

I never felt this way about Arcanum's ones though, all of them were just your usual humans/elves/dwarves/etc, but most of them were interesting in their own way

Really ? I've always found them to be extremely bland (just like the cities) and lacking in personality. Virgil is the only one who has been decently developed and even he's not that interesting.


Anyway, among the companions in PS:T, my favourite by far is Fall-From-Grace. She's smart, mature, caring, strong-willed and her way of keeping her feelings to herself is interesting. I also really like Nordom, Annah, Morte and Dak'kon. Ignus and Vhailor offer interesting discussions when you meet them but they're too one-dimensional to be good companions.