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playing Gothic 3 is just painful

Heresiarch

Prophet
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
1,451
Gothic 3, with patch 1.6 installed, harddrive defragged, latest drivers installed etc. This game is just bringing me severe headache. This is one grand example how a game with interesting concept and design can get ruined (at least scarred) by awful execution.

The first thing is its engine is simply awful. I've a decent PC, e6300 (OC'ed), HD 3850 with 512mb vram, and 2G of ram. I can play other sandbox games like Oblivion and Two Worlds very smoothly. The FPS during G3 gameplay is excellent, but the stuttering while moving around is horrible, my HDD reads like crazy for every 30 steps I made, and the stuttering not only occurs during wilderness, but also in caves and cities and during combat!

Next thing is the combat. Oh my god, I've already read a lot how awful the combat of G3 is, and my initial thought was "huh, click-fest doesn't bother me", "I can handle G1's combat, why not G3?" and "duh, you guyz don't have skilz". But after playing the game myself, I just realized that when both the bad sides of button-mashing combat and Oblivion-ish tactical combat are mixed together, you get the brilliant spawn of G3 combat.

I mean WTF, you can stun lock any human enemy till the end, animals can stun lock you to death with attacks more rapid and faster than smashing the light punch key in Street Fighter or King of Fighters, and big fat ogres can dodge your attacks like WOW rogues while rapidly swing their big hammers faster than said rogues wielding daggers.

Last but not the least, the loading times. I'm one of the few person who can tolerate the long loading time in the unpatched Witcher, even though during Witcher it takes at most 10 seconds for me to load the biggest map. But G3? Guess what, when I decide to load a game, I would turn on my PSP, play a Kirin training mission, to wait out the ultra long loading time. And thanks to the fantastic combat, I die a lot to all those crazy rapid comboes, so I need to load a lot too.

There are other quirks I would like to mention like the horribly horrible voice acting (humanoids screaming sound like being ass raped), bugs (people spawning underground, over the walls, etc), and others. But the technical problems and the combat is what really kills the game for me.

I mean seriously, the game looks good, the scenery looks even better than oblivion, the C&C and roleplaying is much more interesting than most sandbox RPGs out there, the world design is good too - but when half of your playing time is consisted of loading times and stupid combat, then whatever gem hidden inside would just dim away.

BTW, I've read someone said Gothic 3 doesn't have copy & paste dungeons....guess what, I've seen at least two caves with the exact layout!
 

Trash

Pointing and laughing.
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
Messages
29,683
Location
About 8 meters beneath sea level.
Perhaps it is, been awhile since I tried/cared. I do remember it fixing the loading times though.

It could've been another great gothic. Too bad it ended up as a rushed shitjob. I doubt the expansion will do it much good and the sequel already looks shit.

PB however is working on a new franchise though. Perhaps they'll make something worthwhile again.
 

WalterKinde

Scholar
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
524
Yeah the technical short comings of Gothic 3 are bad, the thing you have to wonder about is how bad were the technical troubles BEFORE the patches.
For me to play it i have to dedicate like 48 hrs to it because the long load save times are a pain, as for stun lock problems yep you got to invest in ranged combat or magic to avoid it, having wolves or any of the vile "beasts" take you out at a critical part of the game is not good, then wait through reloads and then have the game chug along with lag before you can get back to where you were,depending on where the last save was, is a pain.
 

Helton

Arcane
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
6,789
Location
Starbase Delta
I about finished the green area, though I haven't liberated any towns and I was maybe 1/5 through ice area when I peetered out. It just seemed everything was the same. Same shit. But the combat didn't bother me and I avoided a lot of load-pain (though still lots of save-pain) by being an archer.
 

doctor_kaz

Scholar
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
517
Location
Ohio, USA
WalterKinde said:
Yeah the technical short comings of Gothic 3 are bad, the thing you have to wonder about is how bad were the technical troubles BEFORE the patches.

I played the game pre-patch and I haven't noticed any performance improvements with the patches. If they are there, they aren't very big.
 

Raapys

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
4,960
Yah, none of the patches have made significant improvements to the performance and loading times of the game. A Raid0 setup and lots of RAM seems to be key to getting it run okay'ish.
 

doctor_kaz

Scholar
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
517
Location
Ohio, USA
Raapys said:
Yah, none of the patches have made significant improvements to the performance and loading times of the game. A Raid0 setup and lots of RAM seems to be key to getting it run okay'ish.

More RAM seems to help a bit but even when I upgraded from 1 GB to 2 GB the difference was minor. The engine was just terrible. Worst video game engine performance since Arcanum.
 

Burress

Novice
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
4
Heresiarch said:
You can stun lock any human enemy till the end, animals can stun lock you to death with attacks more rapid and faster than smashing the light punch key in Street Fighter or King of Fighters, and big fat ogres can dodge your attacks like WOW rogues while rapidly swing their big hammers faster than said rogues wielding daggers.
They claimed they had fixed the stunlock with one of their earlier patches, but they really didn't. It used to be worse though, the enemies attacked lightning fast and there was a stunning animation that lasted a couple of seconds. It was all over whenever an animal hit you once. Now you at least have a chance to run after you get hit, though that still does not make melee a vialble combat option against non-humanoids.

The reason enemies attack so quickly and without recoil is that PB only programmed half the attack animation. This is something they never did fix, and I am pretty sure they never will. They have the animation to lunge forward but not to withdraw to strike again. They didn't program a pause between lunges either. So every enemy, no matter how large, can attack with the swiftness of a cobra.
 

don_tomaso

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Messages
292
I tried vanilla Gothic 3 - unplayable, crashes every other minute.. Tried 1.6 patch - unplayable, crashes every other minute. I then tried the 1.5 patch, and it actually worked for like up to 30 min before crashing.

So if you have troubs with the latest patch, try going back to older ones. I was still falling through the world floor every 5 minutes though, and load times were horrible on my supercomp with 4gig ram, so I never played passed the desert..
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
Gothic 3 is simply too fucking big. It's really repetitive, most towns are very similar. Which isn't to say it's not enjoyable at all - I had a great time with the first 8 towns or so. But the next 15 identical towns were too much. I barely did anything in Nordmar, I just rushed to see the end.
 

Darth Roxor

Rattus Iratus
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,878,690
Location
Djibouti
My adventure with Gothic 3 was rather short.
The first thing that gained negative points in my view was the awesome performance that needed nearly all the graphics options to go as low as possible and it would still lag. Another thing were the loading times which I think were even longer than in The Witcher which is an achievement of its own. After that I encountered the MARVELOUS combat system that made me facepalm because of the clickfest and think where did the awesome system from Gothic 2 that if properly used could let you beat the hardest opponent go. Later I got attacked by a horde of wild boars in the woods that literally ran me over in 5 seconds, and as the final stage of my adventure I met five orcs that were so painfully easy to kill it was pathetic, since the orcs, unlike the boars, waited politely in a queue to get massacred and all the 'challenge' was to attack them before they attacked me and CLICK!!! FOR GOD'S SAKE, CLICK!!!

And then the game was thrown away from my HDD. Probably forever.
 

WalterKinde

Scholar
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
524
It took me a while to figure out how to kill downed orcs, unlike the opening battle the ones camping in the fields outside the first town , didn't want to stay down and die.
They just get back up after a while, which begs the question why that didn't happen to your character when fighting the vile "beasts", only in the arenas or when you challenged an orc leader but never in a plain fight setting.
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
^ It's assumed that most of the enemies go for the kill - where-as you might have reason to let them live?
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
WalterKinde said:
It took me a while to figure out how to kill downed orcs, unlike the opening battle the ones camping in the fields outside the first town , didn't want to stay down and die.
They just get back up after a while, which begs the question why that didn't happen to your character when fighting the vile "beasts", only in the arenas or when you challenged an orc leader but never in a plain fight setting.
Enemies with names in red will kill you automatically, and you do the same to them. Enemies with names in lighter colours won't kill you after beating you up - and you have a choice whether to finish them off or not.
Some friendly orc leaders are an exception. When you beat them up, they die automatically.
 

racofer

Thread Incliner
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
25,683
Location
Your ignore list.
Heresiarch said:
Gothic 3, with patch 1.6 installed, harddrive defragged, latest drivers installed etc. This game is just bringing me severe headache. This is one grand example how a game with interesting concept and design can get ruined (at least scarred) by awful execution.

Exactly my thoughts on NWN2.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,939
"Gothic 3 is simply too fucking big. It's really repetitive, most towns are very similar. Which isn't to say it's not enjoyable at all - I had a great time with the first 8 towns or so. But the next 15 identical towns were too much."

Bingo. Funny thing is that the game still bettert han the twoe arlier Gothics, and certainly better than the trash known as ES series.

Or TOEE.
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
Gothic I had better combat, though. Gothic 3 was a better RPG, no doubt, but I think they're equally good games.
Morrowind was better because of the interesting setting.
 

dragonfk

Erudite
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Messages
2,487
Volourn said:
"
Ningo. Funny thing is that the game still bettert han the twoe arlier Gothics

Blasphemy. Go and play G 1 and 2 before you judge.
 

jaylittle

Scholar
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
241
dragonfk said:
Volourn said:
"
Ningo. Funny thing is that the game still bettert han the twoe arlier Gothics

Blasphemy. Go and play G 1 and 2 before you judge.
Indeed. Gothic 1 and 2 were total kick ass games. Has that dumbass even played those games or is he just talking out of his ass? Or was he one of the wimps that cried and ran away when they realized that the controls were *gasp* different?

Gothic 3 is a shitty game from an RPG perspective and a storyline perspective. Essentially THERE IS NO STORYLINE. If you've ever seen the ending sequences, you know what I mean. In terms of raw RPGing, there is no value there at all either. Upgrading armor is largely meaningless because the armor is not taken into account at all when attacked by animals/monsters only humans/orcs. And humans/orcs are so painfully easy to kill that there is no point in upgrading your armor for that purpose.

The combat system is shit. You just click click click click click ^ 26 until your enemy is presumably dead. But sometimes you have to murder them after they have "died" so that they stay dead. This is similar to the earlier games but it is much less consistent in Gothic 3 which makes the mechanic difficult and unwieldy at best. The best way around this is to use arrows and bolts. But if you play long enough you'll soon find that you can run out of these things as apparently nobody makes more of these things throughout the entire world. Of course then there is magic, which can be regenerated by resting or drinking a potion, but eventually the world can run out of potions, forcing you to rest whenever your mana needs to be regenerated.

When you go to the first few towns - this is entirely bearable because you are still under the impression that the real game will start soon. But once you make it to Nordmar or the desert region, you begin to realize that this crap is the actual game and there will be no reprieve. This is when you consider either a) uninstalling it and never playing again (which I did the first time around), b) waiting for yet another bullshit patch and then stomaching your way through the whole game (what I did the second time around), or c) wait for yet another patch once again and realize that nothing has and will changed that you care about so you give up for good (what I did the third time around).

Summary: Gothic 1 and 2 had an engaging storyline and atmosphere and avoided making everything feel generic. Gothic 3 is a whole lot of generic quests, NPCs, meaningless stats and non-existent plot shoved up your ass.
 

Depressinator

Novice
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
80
What engine do they use?

I am not a big fan of actiony combat but a smart thing to force variation would be to make the character tire more the more he does the same move over and over.
 

GeneralSamov

Prophet
Joined
Jul 8, 2007
Messages
3,647
Location
Karantania
jaylittle said:
Essentially THERE IS NO STORYLINE.
Upgrading armor is largely meaningless because the armor is not taken into account at all when attacked by animals/monsters only humans/orcs.
But sometimes you have to murder them after they have "died" so that they stay dead.
Of course then there is magic, which can be regenerated by resting or drinking a potion, but eventually the world can run out of potions, forcing you to rest whenever your mana needs to be regenerated.
Gothic 3 is a whole lot of generic quests, NPCs, meaningless stats and non-existent plot shoved up your ass.
loltrekke3.jpg
 

Micmu

Magister
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
Messages
6,163
Location
ALIEN BASE-3
Comparing to G1, G2 and the expansion, G3 is a fail.
It is rather poor as a standalone game, too.

In my humble opinion, if you very much liked G1 and/or 2, then you'll most definitely hate G3. If you didn't care for or play G1/2, then maybe you'll tolerate G3 but hardly really like it.
 

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