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Development Info Project Eternity Kickstarter Update #67: How To Create An Area, In 13 Days Or More

Durante

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
They should have never stuck with this 2D nostalgia nonsense when they can hardly afford the time to do it. I love 2D but we're finally seriously at a point where good art direction in orthographic projection or low field of vision will net you the same rich visual experience in 3D (just look at Chaos Chronicles for a comparison with fewer manpower and less industry experience) plus the benefits of working with 3D sans labour intensive pipeline of 2D with graphics doomed to age unless developer provides source art or higher-res assets in future.
I agree with this. Yes, the touched up 2D is beautiful, but I'm not sure the improvement in aesthetics over competent isometric 3D is worth the time/cost tradeoff at this point.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Surf Solar Heresy detected ITT.

If Obsidian said "we are doing 3D but completely in the style of 2D IE games, see our example here", it wouldn't change a thing.

:lol: There would be a shitstorm. Including from you, probably. TITTY ANGLES, OBSIDIAN'S UNDERSTANDING OF CAMERA CONTROLS IS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED, etc.
 
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Rake

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Oct 11, 2012
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Yeah, right. That's why every time a Wasteland 2 video came out, people have gone " shitty graphics, badget shovelware, ugly for 2014 etc." And they were propably the ones asking for 3D in the first place, under the delusion they would get a Crysis 3 in top down view :roll:
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Yeah, right. That's why every time a Wasteland 2 video came out, people have gone " shitty graphics, badget shovelware, ugly for 2014 etc." And they were propably the ones asking for 3D in the first place, under the delusion they would get a Crysis 3 in top down view :roll:
Exactly, with the budget of these Kickstarters, all you can do with 3D is something similare to Wasteland 2. Which is not that good looking. People can compare it to Chaos Chronicles, but that wasn't a KS games IIRC, and has a publisher funding. They had the time and budget to make that beautiful 3D graphics.
 

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I think we've hit peak resolution for the time being. Plus I'm pretty sure when the IE games were 640x480 my desktop was 800x600 and when IWD2 was 800x600 I was 1024x768 so they were always slightly behind.
This was intentional so that people with lower specs could run the games. It also mattered less with CRTs since they could make pixels of arbitrary size.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Messages
1,258
The time and budget those guys had for Chaos Chronicles was laughable compared to what Obsidian got. Plus the manpower. Plus the experience. Plus the asset resources.

And a 13-day pipeline for a single 3x3 area speaks for itself. Baking shaders, baking lightmap, the 2D touches. That process can easily be kept down at 10 days max without the extra steps for 2D.

One thing that can be said to the absolute advantage of 2D is performance. That could be a good reason to use 2D, to maximise your target hardware range but would they really need it at this age? Perhaps, perhaps not, I have no idea.

At any rate, discard Chaos Chronicles. There are plenty other examples. When people with far less resources make far better looking games, you gotta start questioning.

Surf Solar Heresy detected ITT.

If Obsidian said "we are doing 3D but completely in the style of 2D IE games, see our example here", it wouldn't change a thing.

:lol: There would be a shitstorm. Including from you, probably. TITTY ANGLES, OBSIDIAN'S UNDERSTANDING CAMERA CONTROLS IS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED, etc.

Well, I'm running forth an ideal in my head here. Of course Obsidian would TOTALLY fuck it up with PERSPECTIVE and retarded camera. They had absolutely no reason to have such craptastic view with NWN2 + expansions or DS3 but oh no, they just can't help it. Just take a look at Wasteland 2 for heaven's sake. The game looks ugly and not the least for its cheap European shovelware look but also because of the absolute shit camera angles. Brian & Co can delude themselves all they want about it. We all saw the game videos and how shit got obstructed behind stuff ALL THE TIME due to perspective when it wouldn't in an orthographic render or a low-FoV angle.

Otherwise, of course I am mighty happy we are getting a beautiful 2D game (WL can suck my ass with its cheap Euro shovelware look). I am only lamenting all the things that could be but are not.

Case in point, Sawyer talking back and forth about what a great game Darklands is and how he would love to make a Darklands game. But he should tell us all, if he is sucha great fan of Darklands, how come not a single game he has been heavily involved with carry any influence from it? Why do their games end up simplistic crap console games over and over again, compared to mechanical elegance of Darklands? How is that any different from Todd Howard telling the world, pre-Fallout 3, that he is such a great fan of the original Fallouts? And heavens forbid he develop an actual Darklands title. His treatment of a DL game wouldn't be much different than Bethesda's treatment of FO, what with is full submission to console crap design and idiot-proof balancing. He certainly talks way too much about design theory when not a single game he has been involved with had any mechanical depth or joy. He certainly has the skill but he is too far gone to use it right.

Dear, I'm loaded today.
 

hiver

Guest
Yeah, right. That's why every time a Wasteland 2 video came out, people have gone " shitty graphics, badget shovelware, ugly for 2014 etc." And they were propably the ones asking for 3D in the first place, under the delusion they would get a Crysis 3 in top down view :roll:
Exactly, with the budget of these Kickstarters, all you can do with 3D is something similare to Wasteland 2. Which is not that good looking. People can compare it to Chaos Chronicles, but that wasn't a KS games IIRC, and has a publisher funding. They had the time and budget to make that beautiful 3D graphics.
Not really. Having some very good to great artists in the team makes huge differences.

Compare Original Sin and W2, for clearer example. Although OS had longer development and more polished pieces of the game to show.
Hopefully W2 screens and videos are early alpha builds. The devil is in the details though, not in looking like crysis 3.
 
Self-Ejected

Davaris

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Idiocracy
Compare Original Sin and W2, for clearer example. Although OS had longer development and more polished pieces of the game to show.
Hopefully W2 screens and videos are early alpha builds. The devil is in the details though, not in looking like crysis 3.

Just saw the Prison video for the first time...

The difference between W2 and OS is not just down to the art. Unity has a flat drab look, that OS simply does not have. I'm clueless about the technical aspects of 3D, but even I can see it plain as day. Perhaps they don't know how to set up Unity, which is highly unlikely, or they should have used something better, like for instance C4.:deadhorse:
 

Arkeus

Arcane
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
1,406
The presence of a real Editor with D:OS that is also compatible with Dragon Commander would suggest that they have an in-house engine that is heavily optimized for 3D calculations that they could actually afford to use.

I am also pretty sure the budget for D:OS is higher than the one for WL2, especially if you count that engine.
 

hiver

Guest
Probably, yes.
Yet, after that AG center video that we saw first i havent seen anything else with any vibe to it in W2.
Everything after was pretty bland, simple and forgettable, with too much bloom or some such effect.

Hopefully well see something better next time.
 
Self-Ejected

Davaris

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The presence of a real Editor with D:OS that is also compatible with Dragon Commander would suggest that they have an in-house engine that is heavily optimized for 3D calculations that they could actually afford to use.

I am also pretty sure the budget for D:OS is higher than the one for WL2, especially if you count that engine.

They made their own engine, because they had a bad experience with the last one. Like many commercial engines, it was probably composed of libraries licensed from different companies. The expected result, a rickety engine.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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35,790
commie, that's denizsi/vots. He's been around for a while.

Yeah, right. That's why every time a Wasteland 2 video came out, people have gone " shitty graphics, badget shovelware, ugly for 2014 etc." And they were propably the ones asking for 3D in the first place, under the delusion they would get a Crysis 3 in top down view :roll:
The last couple of screenshots they posted looked fine.
 

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