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Indie Quake RPG

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
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certain FPS games captured the atmosphere of being isolated, inside a lonely mythic world better than many RPGs do. I think there is something really compelling about the environmental storytelling and world-building of several boomer shooters

im amazed no one applied Quake-style environmental storytelling to RPGs yet. lots of secrets and and hand-placed details (such as a weapon next to a corpse impaled on a crystal, or a dead marine with a rebreather in an underwater secret, etc.).


 

Butter

Arcane
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Bro, Fallout 3 has got you covered. Sometimes you'll find an empty house, but in one of the rooms you find two skeletons in a bed. It tells a whole story.
 

Grim Monk

Arcane
Joined
Nov 7, 2011
Messages
1,218
Same goes for the Build Engine games. Searching the map for Secrets/Secret Levels and shortcuts was an great experience. The fact that they mostly made sense and flowed organically into the level was wonderful. I later had a similarly modern experience when playing Dark Souls 1.

I think that part of this stems from developers often having extensive tabletop RPG background in an era that valued creative and thought-out '"Dungeons".

Sadly it seems that not only are modern game makers mostly lacking such backgrounds but I hear the Tabletop scene is full of people who grew up playing MMOs and Diablo Clones and think PnP should be more similar to those.
So total :killit: and :decline: ...
Bro, Fallout 3 has got you covered. Sometimes you'll find an empty house, but in one of the rooms you find two skeletons in a bed. It tells a whole story.
"Environmental Storytelling" is not the main cause of why people think those Bethesda games are garbage.
The original Fallouts had tons of it.
 
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ropetight

Savant
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Lower Wolffuckery
Back in the 90's there was a big emphasis on level design and environmental storytelling, especially in shooters.
Guys that created levels were famous for their creations, like Richard "Levelord" Gray or Sandy Petersen and John Romero.
Games were even marketed with "levels created by".
Levelord singlehandedly raised 3D level design to new heights - his opus is literally the history of 3D games.
Whole thing faded away in the "big consolidation" of 2000's, in the same vein of other great traditions in video games that took step back to growing corporatization at that time.

On the first look it seems that cRPG's are lacking in this department, but that is only partially true.

Entrance sectors and surroundings of the city hubs are good examples of environmental storytelling in RPGs.
Sometimes walls being half breached in siege, outlaw and non-desirables camps outside of security ot town, some sort of decaying and rot around cursed or declining settlements... Even foreshadowing some factions or NPC's that you will find inside.

But, as soon you enter main city map, this usually disappears: the town has to be "vibrant" and everyone is so eager to tell you everything about the world.
This, combined with a tendency of authors to overexplain lore and settings (they put so much work in it), sometimes totally broke the games for me.
The worst offenders are the tutorial "zones" that interrupt you every half a minute with often non-essential information without your control.
I have no problem with even lowest form of environmental storytelling like road signs or road blocks, just as they leave me to play freely.

Good games will then use environmental storytelling in side quests and smaller locations, guild halls, locked cottages that you opened, sometimes connected with almost obligatory detective side quests.

Best examples of environmental storytelling in cRPGs are usually found in the dungeons.
Fallen adventurers, monsters and loot they leave behind, maybe a diary or unique item that adventurer thought will help him solve the dungeon.
State of fallen is usually great storytelling clue, grotesquely disfigured by strength of monsters in dungeon or full of poison darts (this is similar as mentiond rebreather marine in Quake).

Puzzles and traps can tell a story about dungeon, as they are usually put in front of important parts of dungeon.
So, when you trigger a trap, you are on right way!

I also quite like the "balconies" - elevated or secured parts of dungeon that enable you to get better feel of environment and watch and listen enemies.
It is best if they are hidden or only reachable with using of certain skills and gear, making them easy to miss.
They should offer "reward" in a way of decimating the ranks of enemies or making the surroundings more advantegeous in upcoming battle by pulling some convenient lever.
They are also great substitute for cut-scenes (another immersion breaking plague of cRPG's), but are often used to trigger them, sadly.

Environmental storytelling is one of the unique storytelling tools of the video games: make-or-break ingredient since beginning.
You just use the best creative tool that you have in medium - same with "show, don't tell" rule in filmmaking, "leave player to interact, don't tell or show" should be the first thought of video game developer.

I love these parts of cRPG's, when "narrator" shuts up and leaves you to explore the game.
 

430am

Educated
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divine_cybermancy
I don't know, this very much smells to me like one of those de_dust2 24/7 CS:S RPG mod servers, which suck ass. If you want the old id RPG experience, try Strife (can't say I like it).

Also, this has existed for a while now and I've been meaning to check it out. Runs on gzdoom.

 

soulburner

Cipher
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
810
Quake initially wasn't even a first person game, it was announced during the Commander Keen era, if I recall correctly. Once actual development started the initial ideas were simply overambitious. John Romero's rock star status also didn't help and he supposedly failed to produce any design document, so a decision was made to keep the Doom formula and drop the RPG elements. This is the main reason why the game looks so amazing and unique - medieval abstract locations with nightmarish fantasy monsters and guns.

xwgpE9N.png
 

Serus

Arcane
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Small but great planet of Potatohole
In the same year also Diablo was supposed to be an RPG.

Diablo is a graphical roguelike

roguelikes are a subgenre of RPGs
I might remember it wrong - but originally it was supposed to share more aspects with traditional roguelikes. For exemple - turn based. Then it would be slightly closer to a "graphical roguelike" title. However it ended as some sort of hybrid with elements from more than one genre. Perhaps it would be called a rogue-lite if made in 2020. Or just a hack & slash with random levels. However, random levels alone don't a game RL make - as master Yoda said. He also added: that's absurd.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Quake initially wasn't even a first person game, it was announced during the Commander Keen era, if I recall correctly. Once actual development started the initial ideas were simply overambitious. John Romero's rock star status also didn't help and he supposedly failed to produce any design document, so a decision was made to keep the Doom formula and drop the RPG elements. This is the main reason why the game looks so amazing and unique - medieval abstract locations with nightmarish fantasy monsters and guns.

xwgpE9N.png
I remember that txt. "Strongest, most dangerous person on the continent" was such a strangely specific description.
 

luj1

You're all shills
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might remember it wrong - but originally it was supposed to share more aspects with traditional roguelikes. For exemple - turn based. Then it would be slightly closer to a "graphical roguelike" title.

I agree

Its like an action roguelike or roguelite
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Eastern block
I wish Arcane Dimensions could be made into an RPG

perhaps similar to Hexen or Powerslave

It has really AMAZING environment design

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