Recommended RPGs for a first-timer

[Razz]

Hello RPGCodex! Nice to meet you.

Obligatory life story below, functioning as context to my question and because I'm self-absorbed and think anyone cares. Feel free to skip ahead to the last paragraph if you're one those people with a short attention span or simply don't give a shit.

I'll be clear: I've been playing console games for most of my life (shit, I've just lost half my readers.. that's about half of a person left then). A couple years ago now, I played a little RPG some of you may know as Oblivion (wait, it gets better). I bought it after hearing nothing but positive things about it, how it was a true revolution in the RPG genre, a milestone everyone should play, etc you get the drift. After playing it for a while, however, something seemed a bit off. I didn't like it (holy fuck, it's developing conscious thought!!). Now, this of course wasn't the first time I played a game which most of the mainstream gaming media praised, and ended up hating. But this was different. Everyone and their moms, including the more obscure gaming media and people I knew were RAVING about how fantastic this thing was. Yet after a while, all I could see were FLAWS. Not some miniscule errors coming from a lack of polish, but gigantic game-breaking stuff. The dungeons all looked the same, the voice acting and AI were nothing short of horrible, the leveling system was so broken it wasn't even funny, the world, setting and story were bland and boring, the combat was dull and uninventive, not to mention the amount of bloom destroying my poor eyesight when I was a vampire (I mostly threw that last one in to make myself look good in front of you guys, but there WAS a lot of bloom).

So I started wondering. What the fuck was I missing here? Was I the only living person left on the earth with some sense, or was I just losing interest in videogames? Seeing flaws where there were none (or fewer, anyway)? Later on, the omg-art Bioshock appeared, and while it was actually fun and had a truly intriguing setting, there was no chance in hell it deserved all the praise it was getting. The supposedly omnipresent moral ambiguity was absolutely nowhere to be found and the much-lauded story was just shallow. The shallow story was later confirmed by Ken Levine, no less, to be totally intended, because apparently "gamers don't care about your stupid story", developers! I CARED. Why the fuck wasn't anyone else caring? Many overly shallow, simplified-for-the-masses mainstream games followed, and I developed yet more conscious thought. After Oblivion I actually started looking. Am I really alone? Can everyone else really have ignored these blatant flaws of not just in this specific game, but the broader negative trends in the gaming industry they exemplified? You might think at this point (If you're still reading. Why ARE you still reading.): "this guy is a CONSOLE gamer, what the hell is he even complaining about?" Apparently somewhere along the way I either gained a craving for complexity and depth, or console games just weren't always as shitty as they are now.

But I digress. I started looking, and I found. And then some. I stumbled upon the Codex. Never in my life had I seen such cynicism towards an industry I (used to) love. Such a vile, politically incorrect take at humor I hadn't layed eyes upon since I browsed the darkest depths of the internet. Worse than the wretched crevices of the 4chan boards, but at the same time loaded with a kind of pseudo-intellectual prowess which made it far transcend anything that other place ever puked out. This RPGCodex had people with sticks shoved so far up their own asses they couldn't do anything but shit-talk. I was in love, moreso than I was apalled, shocked and screaming in sheer horror and disgust. I laughed, cringed, but more than anything, I learned. You see, I started playing PS:T and it turned out these guys weren't just talking out of their stick-filled arses, they were fucking RIGHT.

Which, fortunately for the poor souls who decided to torture themselves by reading all of the above, leads me to my question. It's a question I've noticed gets asked occasionally around these parts, but I wanted to ask it again, add a twist for good measure and needed some excuse to tell my life story to complete strangers on an internet forum. So, wise and deliciously dirty RPGCodex: which RPGs do you recommend a complete newbie like me picks up? I'm talking a complete, utter ignoramus here. I've heard of the big ones and plan on playing them, what I'm looking for is some of the more obscure recommendations (not THAT obscure). Also, do you guys suggest, I don't know, playing them in a certain order? Say I wanted to get an overview of what this genre is all about, what would be the absolute must-plays and should I play them chronologically? That's actually like five questions, and I've bored most of you enough for now. I'm actually surprisingly open-minded, as long as you don't give me a list containing nothing but ASCII stuff. I'm not a graphix whore (also quite surprisingly), but I still enjoy the presence of some sort of graphix, if you know what I mean. In summary: i r newb and want 2 play dem arr pee gees, witch 1s do i play??

 

[It Is All A Lies]

Final Fantasy VII

 

[Freelance Henchman]

Baldur's Gate II. Kinda old, but very cheap now and very good, if you can stomach the wacky Dungeons&Dragons Second Edition rules. Great companions, good story, some fairly tough and challenging fights. And actually still beautiful to look at, since it's all hand-drawn 2D graphics.

EDIT: Hm, you asked for obscure ones... can't really think of one now, but my suggestion still stands.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

Assuming you aren't a troll, play Knights of the Old Republic 2. It's a good "transition game" between console games and older, better RPGs.

Gothic 2: Night of the Raven is also really good, but you'd have to pick up the "Gothic Universe" set to get it, which includes Gothic 1 and 3, and neither of them come close to 2.

e: I missed the obscure part too. Go with Gothic 2 then.

And no, don't get Baldur's Gate 2 without playing some other RPGs first. It's not newbie-friendly at all.

 

[Rorschach]

You're a total fag.

Also, play Fallout before Fallout 2. Otherwise You might end up liking number 2 more, and if that's the case you can just kiss your credibility good bye!

 

[wjw]

Vampire Bloodlines is also a good 'transition' rpg. The setting / characters/story are great and with the latest fan patch it's bugfree. It's really one of Troika's best games and afterwards you might want to give Arcanum a try. Which is from the same developers but a lot older, has more freedom/more stats, but terrible combat.

Baldur's Gate II might be a little hard to get into because the game doesn't really offer a tutorial or intro into the game. The DnD rules are a bit hard in the beginning, but are really rewarding if you try to get some sense out of them. Anyway since you seemed to like PS:T, you might just like it right from the start.

 

[Freelance Henchman]

That's why I suggested BG2, he said he played Torment already.

 

[racofer]

Vampire Bloodlines

A must play because the stick up my asshole says so. Also since troika is no more, you can safely non-physically remove it from troika's coffin without harming anyone's feelings (other than butthurt Steamtards in here) Apply wesp's v 5.9 patch too and ignore Tessara's shitpile patch.

Baldur's Gate II might be a little hard to get into because the game doesn't really offer a tutorial or intro into the game. The DnD rules are a bit hard in the beginning, but are really rewarding if you try to get some sense out of them. Anyway since you seemed to like PS:T, you might just like it right from the start.

Yes, D&D might seem confusing to a newcomer and that's why Jaime's idea of KotOR 2 (and K1 as well) might look interesting since it uses a very simplified D&D ruleset "dumbed down" for those specific games (yet good enough to understand about saving throws, attack rolls, critical threats, attribute bonuses, multi classing, etc...) Afterwards, once he understands D&D, games like BG2,NWN 1/2 and so on will be much better appreciated. (nwn1 partially because of HotU and specially because of mods, of course).

Another redeeming action you must undertake before the hivemind adds your distinct individual characteristics into our collective hive, you need to spam goatse and tubgirl on TES forums until you get banned and thereafter post your progress at The Best Thread Ever.

 

[Razz]

Assuming you aren't a troll

Don't be silly, a troll wouldn't put that much effort into a post.

I guess I was aiming more for 'transition' RPG's than 'obscure' ones, but suggestions from both categories are still welcome. And thanks for the recommendations so far, good stuff. Except for FF7, I totally played that already. What kind of a console gamer do you think I am.

I'm familiar with D&D as I also played some *cough* NWN *cough* back in the day.

 

[racofer]

Don't be silly, a troll wouldn't put that much effort into a post.

R00fles.

 

[trais]

And thanks for the recommendations so far, good stuff. Except for FF7, I totally played that already. What kind of a console gamer do you think I am.

Upgrade your sarcasm detector.

 

[Razz]

Upgrade your sarcasm detector.

Maybe you should upgrade yours.

(Written sarcasm REALLY doesn't appear to work that well :D. Don't worry, I'm familiar with the Codex' general stance on JRPG's)

 

[DriacKin]

Anachronox is another really nice transitional RPG. It resembles jRPGs in many ways (like the combat system and the linearity). But, it has a great sense of humor and some well written dialogue. In the end, it was a really enjoyable experience.

 

[Zuluf]

Is this person a troll? That's more likely than a consolist with a brain, but then again he couldn't have copypasta'd this:

"This RPGCodex had people with sticks shoved so far up their own asses they couldn't do anything but shit-talk. I was in love, moreso than I was apalled, shocked and screaming in sheer horror and disgust. I laughed, cringed, but more than anything, I learned. You see, I started playing PS:T and it turned out these guys weren't just talking out of their stick-filled arses, they were fucking RIGHT. "

So yes, let's help him fellaz.

If you liked PS:T, you should definitely try Fallout 1 and 2. So here's a cohesive RPG journey list (it does open possibilities further down the road so keep reading):

1.PS:T - check.
2. Fallout 1 - for its brilliant post-apoc universe, well-applied easily-accessible core RPG elements.
3. Fallout 2 - an even quirkier take on a post-apoc universe, if you're the kind of guy who likes a serious archipelago of minuscule "srsbzns" islands drowning in a sea of pop culture references and Monty Python, this is the game for you. I would definitely recommend it, as I am deranged enough to lock myself in my apartment for a month every year just to get back in touch with my one true love: RPGs that are RPGs, weed that is weed, movies that are movies, books that are books. WAIT THATS 4 WTF LOLOLOL
4. Arcanum - a game that takes up after the Fallout standards in a steampunk fantasy environment. Elves wearing corsets, dwarves operating steam engines, Brothels of the Victorian variety, and bits that won't leave the basement of your mind for decades to come.
5. Baldur's Gate, BG2 + expansions (1 for each) - Moving on to the D&D shelf, the BGs are a great way of experiencing the thrill of PS:T with more action added in and a more classical fantasy environment. Great speech every now and then, interesting side-stories every now and then, definitely worth at least a run. If you get bored or disheartened in the first hour playing the first one, you can still give the second one a try. Actually, BG2 is, say, more mainstream and less a pain in the ass than the first game. Be sure to get the TuTu mod for them before launch.
6. Icewind Dale + ID2 / or / Deus Ex / or / Gothic + Gothic 2

Play Icewind Dale and the sequel if you like the fighting mechanics in PS:T or BG, which are D&D stuff. It doesn't feature the epic stories, twists, or side stuff found in the aforementioned games, however it does feature great environment design and a lot of action and close-call tactical situations, especially for someone who isn't particularly familiar with the mechanics (they are exploitable, but unless you've done at least one run I don't think you'll be able to abuse, well, just don't rest too often, give yourself a challenge). If this is you, skip to 7.

Play Deus ExIf you're more into sci-fi, want to see probably the best FPS/RPG hybrid in the industry and/or just don't feel at home swinging a sword and yelling 2d6 like all those other sorry fags. Deus Ex is the shit, in more ways than one. Cyberpunk, great setting, nuff said. If this is you, skip to 8.

Gothic is, in a way, the most suited for a recently converted consolefag. It doesn't go too deep, it's not particularly complex, convoluted or Shakespearean in form, but if you can go past the initial unfriendly controls you'll discover a nicely crafted world dragging you in for a tentaclerape immersion. As with Baldur's Gate, the second is more accessible and less annoying. If this is you, skip to 9.

7. Right. So you're into D&D. Temple of Elemental Evil is always a solid option if you liked the dungeon crawling parts, although it does feature quite a lot of bugs and it's made almost entirely of dungeons. If you would rather lean on the storyline aspect, go for Neverwinter Nights 2 (the first one is shit by any standard), and try to bear with it until after the first chapter, it does get better eventually. After you're done with that, prepare for a journey that gets pretty close to PS:T quality, Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer. After that, well, if you liked NWN 2, you might as well try the Hordes of the Underdark expansion for the first NWN. Skip the vanilla content and just play HotU, trust in the Codex, for we are wise, and we are Legion.

8. In case you have no problem going back to when having less than 5000 polygons on a character was business as usual, you can relive history and play System Shock. Both of them. If you liked Deus Ex, you'll love these. And yes, although I'll get dickblessed after saying this, they are more RPG than anything you got to play on any contemporary console. Then go for Anachronox. I'll admit I personally haven't played it, although I promise it's gonna be the first thing I do when I get a vacation, but I only trust two people in this world and both of them hump Anachronox like horny fanbois whenever they get the chance. For something more simplistic, with D&D elements in a sci-fi opera setting, you could try the KotoR series. A few nice touches, pretty entertaining if you're into Star Wars. I'll tell you one thing: they're better than Episodes 1, 2 and 3 combined. But as I said, simplistic overall. Also, if you like sci-fi but can't stand Jedi Knights, Sith, wookies etc etc, Mass Effect is a valid option as well - it's simplistic but it does have enough substance to hold its own.

9. Well, after the Gothic series you'll feel a slight nudge to pick up a fantasy MMORPG. Don't. Don't go for Jade Empire either. Just don't, you'll understand without doing that later on. I recommend bending away from the RPG area for a bit to try out the Thief series (The Dark Project Gold + The Metal Age + fan content - it's really good, sort of a Thief 2.5). After that, go for Vampire: The Masquerade series, that's pretty awesome, despite the bugfest in Bloodlines, the second game.

10. Final Fantasy VII - because yes, despite all clues, that's the one jRPG that shows there's potential in that quirky, childish sector.

11. In my opinion, what's above is la creme de la creme of various zones in mainstream RPG-ing. I'll let other codexers fill in the blanks I was tired/stupid/ignorant enough to leave behind, but after you're done with what's above you can discover the superb world of Indie RPGs.

 

[Dark Matter]

You're a total fag.

Also, play Fallout before Fallout 2. Otherwise You might end up liking number 2 more, and if that's the case you can just kiss your credibility good bye!

You're an idiot. FO2 is a much better game than the original. Much longer, more hubs, more opportunities to use the less common skills, more choices and consequences etc.

 

[Zuluf]

Don't BORKE the guy's thread you imbeciles. We have a chance at enlightening a normal person here, don't fuck it up.

 

[DraQ]

So, you've already played the biggie among the story-driven RPGs (the unsurpassed PS:T) and likely intend to give Fallout series (1 - 2) a shot. You also have read propositions regarding some other classic RPGs, so I'll skip those.

If you don't mind some combat focus, you may try The Witcher. The game is relatively modern and it's graphics potential (unlike Oblivion's) was put to a good use. Despite large doses of action-y combat (clickety-click), the game is actually story driven, with moral ambiguity, choices and consequences figuring prominently - pretty good example of how to make modern style cRPG without making it a horrid abomination only dumbest of dumbfucks could play. The dialogue in versions other than original Polish one, is said to be sucky, though.

Another game I'd recommend is Anachronox. Oddly enough it's a Japanese style so-called RPG (usually more than enough to make me give a game a wide berth) and, as such, doesn't have a lot in common with proper RPGs. Things get even stranger, though - this game was made in the west, is PC exclusive, and, unlike your typical jRPG, doesn't suck. The story is well constructed and developed, characters are unforgettable and rather 'unique' and a lot of top quality humour is provided for the amusement of the player. By 'top quality' I mean 'Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy' (book) grade, so if you're D. Adams' fan, you shouldn't need any more recommendation.

If you want try something different, namely an old-school dungeon crawl in somewhat modern sauce, get Wizardry 8. Now, this game isn't nearly as story focused as other games mentioned in this thread, but it's strangely captivating in some, not entirely explainable, way. Be forewarned, though - the game focuses on stats a lot and there is a lot of horribly drawn out (due to the fact you battle a lot of large groups using TB system) combat. It is, however enjoyed by many codexers, codexians, codexites and codices, so you might want to give it a try.

I have a bit of mixed feelings about recommending TES III: Morrowind. I absolutely love this game, but, even though it was made by older, better Bethesda, it's still a bethsoft game which means you can expect a lot of flaws. In fact the game feels like some impossible mixture of sheer brilliance (the component Oblivion was completely devoid of), utter mediocrity and glaring flaws. On one hand you have bad animations, crappy (but stat-driven) combat, forgettable characters, stupid AI (a pattern emerges) and general bugginess combined with exploitability. On the other, you have unforgettable art design, elaborate lore, atmosphere, and very enjoyable exploration. The elements you've seen in Oblivion are almost invariably more interesting and better executed. The overall gameplay style is very similar to oblivion, but unlike it, it's not an excercise in tedium. It's a love-hate game (observe Codex's reaction), if only because there are so many polar opposites quality-wise there that it looks as if developers attempted to achieve some sort of Ying-Yang effect, so try it at your own risk.

If you decide that this gameplay style suits you, after all, you may try Daggerfall as well.

 

[Serious_Business]

Enlighten about what? How to waste your time proprely?

This is the brain police. Drop that term now ('enlighten') or you will be dead soon.

 

[Zuluf]

If you don't mind some combat focus, you may try The Witcher. The game is relatively modern and it's graphics potential (unlike Oblivion's) was put to a good use. Despite large doses of action-y combat (clickety-click), the game is actually story driven, with moral ambiguity, choices and consequences figuring prominently - pretty good example of how to make modern style cRPG without making it a horrid abomination only dumbest of dumbfucks could play. The dialogue in versions other than original Polish one, is said to be sucky, though.

Seal of approval posted on the Witcher. Also, get the enhanced version, it's better by miles (rewritten dialogues and some other pristine shit).

Enlighten about what? How to waste your time proprely?

This is the brain police. Drop that term now ('enlighten') or you will be dead soon.

STFU. I don't want this guy living the rest of his life in consumeristic mediocrity you dolt!

 

[Jaime Lannister]

9. Well, after the Gothic series you'll feel a slight nudge to pick up a fantasy MMORPG.

Only if he plays 3.

 

[Rorschach]

You're an idiot. FO2 is a much better game than the original. Much longer, more hubs, more opportunities to use the less common skills, more choices and consequences etc.

Meh, some people liked the cities in FO1 much more than the wacky themed cities of FO2. Also FO1 had a more intact fourth wall. I personally couldn't give a shit either way. I assumed that would be obvious because of the retarded credibility joke but I guess some peoples internet persona really are import to them after all.

Plus, eat a cock. I told him to play both, so don't make this thread about you and your shitty opinions.

 

[iGetOffToRPGCodex.net]

Mask of the Betrayer, which is an expansion to NWN2 and released in 2007, is also great. It's far better than the original NWN and any of its expansions as well as the original content for NWN2. Far better.

You've played Torment, which is the best story-driven RPG out there. Fallout and Fallout 2 are obvious. Arcanum is a must and highly recommended.

Baldur's Gate I + II can be fun.

Icewind Dale I + II and Temple of Elemental Evil can be enjoyable. Wizardry 8. The Witcher. Basically everything anyone else said. Bloodlines is great. The Knights of the Old Republic games are alright too.

 

[trais]

Don't worry, I'm familiar with the Codex' general stance on JRPG's)

You're familiar with Codex stance on JRPGs and yet you're asking about proper RPGs?
You've got to be trolling.

 

[Elric]

For something more simplistic, with D&D elements in a sci-fi opera setting, you could try the KotoR series. A few nice touches, pretty entertaining if you're into Star Wars. I'll tell you one thing: they're better than Episodes 1, 2 and 3 combined. But as I said, simplistic overall. Also, if you like sci-fi but can't stand Jedi Knights, Sith, wookies etc etc, Mass Effect is a valid option as well - it's simplistic but it does have enough substance to hold its own.

True of 2, but not 1. Both of them have bland simplistic combat, but the thing that puts 2 ahead of 1 for me is the writing. Every choice in 1 is blatantly black/white, so whatever semblance of C&C there is is pretty much laid out for you in detail. There's no gray area between good and evil in KotOR 1, and that really takes away from the experience. If you're coming off PS:T, that's going to be rather annoying.

10. Final Fantasy VII - because yes, despite all clues, that's the one jRPG that shows there's potential in that quirky, childish sector.

Shin Megami Tensei > Final Fantasy. Its the only JRPG series I can tolerate. I'd still take any of the other games you mentioned over that.

 

[Razz]

Thanks for all the suggestions, especially Zuluf's very comprehensive list!

You're familiar with Codex stance on JRPGs and yet you're asking about proper RPGs?
You've got to be trolling.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist or an expert in cRPG's/the Codex to figure out what you people's general stance is on JRPG's.