Revenge of the Firstborn - a 3.5 SRD turn-based, Isometric RPG inspired by TOEE

[rojay]

Where does the horse go, and why is there a distinction? Could you have the horse run off if it's not a warhorse? Is the issue that the horse would be killed too often when someone dismounts? Seems like even if you make it immune to attack it would be a lot better than it just disappearing. Maybe have it run away and make it non-targetable?

I think the idea of mounted combat is great and the "drive-by" lance attack in particular was cool. Hope you work out the kinks.

 

[RPK]

Where does the horse go, and why is there a distinction? Could you have the horse run off if it's not a warhorse? Is the issue that the horse would be killed too often when someone dismounts? Seems like even if you make it immune to attack it would be a lot better than it just disappearing. Maybe have it run away and make it non-targetable?

I think the idea of mounted combat is great and the "drive-by" lance attack in particular was cool. Hope you work out the kinks.

If I remember correctly, I had concerns about someone mounting an NPC's horse and getting a free horse, but even that wouldn't account for the horse not disappearing when you're forcibly dismounted.

Will ponder some more. Probably needs to stick around, and like you said, run away if it's not a warhorse.

 

[MerchantKing]

Older videos here: https://www.youtube.com/@RotFB/videos

Only two genders. Looks promising.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Only two genders. Looks promising.

Genders are like races and classes: more = better. They should also come with stat adjustments. Like a xir should get -6 to Charisma, but +4 to Constitution for checks against Poison, Paralyzation, and Death Magics and +2 Intelligence for checks to stir up online drama.

 

[Darth Canoli]

As of right now, that's how it's intended to work. When you're forcibly dismounted by someone else, the horse stays around though. I can't remember why I made that decision now. Maybe the horse should stay around if you dismount by any means during combat? Curious what others think.

The combat seems quite interesting.
I wouldn't say mounted combat is groundbreaking as pathfinder seems to do it (i've heard it's quite buggy and decides not to try it) but it looks quite interesting.

And unusual for an indie.

So, it seems you nailed the combat part or at least the engine.
The other part being the encounter design, aka balancing enemy parties and handcrafted encounters vs randomized ones which could turn a good system into boring garbage, unfortunately.

What about the rest?
Quest design for example?
Exploration?

Is there some quests and side quests?
How complex are they going to be on a scale of 0 = fetch quests to 10 = Prelude to darkness quest design (aka interlaced quests with multiple solutions branching out and influencing other quests)

And exploration, on a scale of 0 = garbage bin collector (aka Pathfinder and Rogue Trader games) to 10 = Arx Fatalis (no garbage to collect every other step, overall ambient, monsters growls alerting you to their presence and adding to the atmosphere and the tension)
7/8 = Might & Magic III (secrets everywhere, points of interests all over the map)

 

[damager]

If you lance somebody in full speed or trample him there need to be a lot of feedback in the impact. People getting proned and flying arond. Are you gonna animate stuff like that? Imo cool animations are half the fun of a video game.

Besides that I think it's cool you go the route of mounted combat and bring something fresh into isometric combat.

 

[RPK]

As of right now, that's how it's intended to work. When you're forcibly dismounted by someone else, the horse stays around though. I can't remember why I made that decision now. Maybe the horse should stay around if you dismount by any means during combat? Curious what others think.

The combat seems quite interesting.
I wouldn't say mounted combat is groundbreaking as pathfinder seems to do it (i've heard it's quite buggy and decides not to try it) but it looks quite interesting.

And unusual for an indie.

So, it seems you nailed the combat part or at least the engine.
The other part being the encounter design, aka balancing enemy parties and handcrafted encounters vs randomized ones which could turn a good system into boring garbage, unfortunately.

What about the rest?
Quest design for example?
Exploration?

Is there some quests and side quests?
How complex are they going to be on a scale of 0 = fetch quests to 10 = Prelude to darkness quest design (aka interlaced quests with multiple solutions branching out and influencing other quests)

And exploration, on a scale of 0 = garbage bin collector (aka Pathfinder and Rogue Trader games) to 10 = Arx Fatalis (no garbage to collect every other step, overall ambient, monsters growls alerting you to their presence and adding to the atmosphere and the tension)
7/8 = Might & Magic III (secrets everywhere, points of interests all over the map)

I'll be making encounters as interesting as possible, but ofc, I can't judge whether they're actually good objectively.

I'm not a big fan of endless fetch quests either. My proof of concept quest line involves figuring out why goblins and kobolds are working together (which is rare in my world) and making more frequent attacks on travelers. So, find the two groups, decide what do with them (just kill them or figure out why they're behaving differently than usual and deal with that). Which leads to another discovery which kicks off the main plot of the game.

I haven't shown any of the overland travel yet because, at this point, my overland map is just something I made in Campaign Cartographer a long time ago, but the game will have free-form exploration over the world map with things scattered around to do. I ...well, totally ripped off the "reconstruct artifacts" functionality from bg2 because I thought it was cool. So, finding clues for where those might be or stumbling on the dungeons that contain them as you wander around, etc. I loved the way, in Morrowind, that you could just walk across the landscape and find random interesting dungeons (and lots of egg mines) to explore.

Never been a fan of feeling like you're missing out if you don't open every random barrel in the world. My game doesn't have that as I feel I have better things to do with my limited time than populating barrels and such with a few baubles. Never been a fan of collecting random junk to finish recipes for crafting either - my crafting system is an implementation of the pnp rules, so start with masterwork item, know the correct spells, have enough xp (and the relevant feat) and you're good to go.

 

[RPK]

If you lance somebody in full speed or trample him there need to be a lot of feedback in the impact. People getting proned and flying arond. Are you gonna animate stuff like that? Imo cool animations are half the fun of a video game.

Besides that I think it's cool you go the route of mounted combat and bring something fresh into isometric combat.

That's an interesting thought. The only attacks that can actually move people around are creatures that have the Awesome Blow feat such as the purple worm or the bull rush attack. I will give a bit of thought to what I could do here though. You're right that it's a lot of fun to have visual and/or audio feedback for a telling hit.

 

[Castozor]

Just stumbled on this and wishlisted for now. Looks very interesting.

Never been a fan of feeling like you're missing out if you don't open every random barrel in the world. My game doesn't have that as I feel I have better things to do with my limited time than populating barrels and such with a few baubles. Never been a fan of collecting random junk to finish recipes for crafting either - my crafting system is an implementation of the pnp rules, so start with masterwork item, know the correct spells, have enough xp (and the relevant feat) and you're good to go.

This sounds good, I loathe most crafting systems that have you carry dozens of items around on the off chance you might need them later. I prefer no crafting at all, but if you must have it simple is the way to go.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I'll be making encounters as interesting as possible, but ofc, I can't judge whether they're actually good objectively.

I'm not a big fan of endless fetch quests either. My proof of concept quest line involves figuring out why goblins and kobolds are working together (which is rare in my world) and making more frequent attacks on travelers. So, find the two groups, decide what do with them (just kill them or figure out why they're behaving differently than usual and deal with that). Which leads to another discovery which kicks off the main plot of the game.

I haven't shown any of the overland travel yet because, at this point, my overland map is just something I made in Campaign Cartographer a long time ago, but the game will have free-form exploration over the world map with things scattered around to do. I ...well, totally ripped off the "reconstruct artifacts" functionality from bg2 because I thought it was cool. So, finding clues for where those might be or stumbling on the dungeons that contain them as you wander around, etc. I loved the way, in Morrowind, that you could just walk across the landscape and find random interesting dungeons (and lots of egg mines) to explore.

Never been a fan of feeling like you're missing out if you don't open every random barrel in the world. My game doesn't have that as I feel I have better things to do with my limited time than populating barrels and such with a few baubles. Never been a fan of collecting random junk to finish recipes for crafting either - my crafting system is an implementation of the pnp rules, so start with masterwork item, know the correct spells, have enough xp (and the relevant feat) and you're good to go.

I find your approach really interesting.
You officially have one customer.

Decent exploration along with a good character development system, combat engine and encounter design is all I need.

The thing I think good indy RPG lack the most to be extremely successful is an art direction appealing to the masses to widen their customer base.
This, good music and sound effects could do wonders.

Let's take a look at Battle Brothers, it looks like an anomaly in terms of sales.
I know it's not a RPG per se but a tactical game with RPG elements is close enough.

So what does it have that appeals to a wide audience?
- Hardcore combat (doesn't work for all games with hardcore combat, can't be just this)
- Good art direction
- Great music
- Good sound effects
- Good enough combat animation (and fast enough, at least with mods)
- Gore
- Good tactical combat
- Good character development, even if the system is quite simple
- Moddable
- Open world exploration
- Interesting bestiary
- Huge bosses
- Dress up game, aka a lot of different weapons and armors which change the appearance of the mercs (I think many players love this)

On the down side:
-- I'm not a big fan of the quest system.
-- No encounter design unfortunately

So, there has to be a combination of these factors justifying its success.

I'm laying it all out because I wish indie devs were more attentive to these details and more successful.

Which would mean more good RPG / tacticool for us.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

If I remember correctly, I had concerns about someone mounting an NPC's horse and getting a free horse,

What's the concern? Nicking NPCs' property is a time-honoured RPG tradition.

 

[damager]

Yes tbh why should that not be in. Makes not a lot of sense to me. Would be kind of immersion breaking if you can't do it

I understand it's not grand theft horsey.... but still! Interacting with your enviroment is what rpg's are about a lot right? At least the ones on paper. And traversing this into crpg is the key to innovation imo. Give it a nice high check on riding or you get kicked down and than make it a mechanic

 

[RPK]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Those are good arguments, and I'll revisit the disappearing mounts functionality.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Stealing a horse could be done with a mount skill check with a high DC
And maybe with a stealth or agility skill check on top of this.

If you don't want to make it too easy, dismounted horses could flee the battle after X turns, aside from the player's horses which could come back on their own after the battle.

 

[Cat Dude]

Ugly af art style like Gothic. Hard pass.

 

[RPK]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Those are good arguments, and I'll revisit the disappearing mounts functionality.

Horses now stay active when dismounted during combat. Outside of combat they disappear because... well, I don't what to do with them otherwise.

 

[Litmanen]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Those are good arguments, and I'll revisit the disappearing mounts functionality.

Horses now stay active when dismounted during combat. Outside of combat they disappear because... well, I don't what to do with them otherwise.

If your game consists of a series of 'mini-maps', maybe you could create designated spots, in those maps where players can arrive on horseback but then have to dismount, that could serve as resting areas for the horses while the party moves around without them.

If the player dismounts, they would be notified that the horse will automatically go to the 'rest station' and can be found there if they want to mount it again.

Something like that?

 

[RPK]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Those are good arguments, and I'll revisit the disappearing mounts functionality.

Horses now stay active when dismounted during combat. Outside of combat they disappear because... well, I don't what to do with them otherwise.

If your game consists of a series of 'mini-maps', maybe you could create designated spots, in those maps where players can arrive on horseback but then have to dismount, that could serve as resting areas for the horses while the party moves around without them.

If the player dismounts, they would be notified that the horse will automatically go to the 'rest station' and can be found there if they want to mount it again.

Something like that?

I don't want to force the players to not ride horses though, except in dungeons. I'm pretty ok with the horses just disappearing when the player dismounts out of combat.

 

[damager]

I would not let others skew your vision of the game too much before they actually played it. The fuck we know how it feels the horses disappear. That said horses just walking off after dismounting, or disappearing when the player leaves might be a tasteful solution? Just a thought though.

What I found interesting is, in your page 1 trailer the enemy actually gets proned when lanced from the horse back



Looks pretty good

 

[RPK]

I would not let others skew your vision of the game too much before they actually played it. The fuck we know how it feels the horses disappear. That said horses just walking off after dismounting, or disappearing when the player leaves might be a tasteful solution? Just a thought though.

What I found interesting is, in your page 1 trailer the enemy actually gets proned when lanced from the horse back



Looks pretty good

that guy was killed actually.

 

[Bastardchops]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Those are good arguments, and I'll revisit the disappearing mounts functionality.

Horses now stay active when dismounted during combat. Outside of combat they disappear because... well, I don't what to do with them otherwise.

Can't they just stand there indefinitely?

 

[RPK]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Those are good arguments, and I'll revisit the disappearing mounts functionality.

Horses now stay active when dismounted during combat. Outside of combat they disappear because... well, I don't what to do with them otherwise.

Can't they just stand there indefinitely?

I suppose they could, but I don't see a really good reason for them to not just go away, except a little bit of the immersion factor. Right now, I have more pressing changes that need to be addressed.

 

[aweigh]

this looks great. nice.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I would not let others skew your vision of the game too much before they actually played it. The fuck we know how it feels the horses disappear. That said horses just walking off after dismounting, or disappearing when the player leaves might be a tasteful solution? Just a thought though.

What I found interesting is, in your page 1 trailer the enemy actually gets proned when lanced from the horse back



Looks pretty good

that guy was killed actually.

He was definitely laid prone then

 

[RPK]

I would not let others skew your vision of the game too much before they actually played it. The fuck we know how it feels the horses disappear. That said horses just walking off after dismounting, or disappearing when the player leaves might be a tasteful solution? Just a thought though.

What I found interesting is, in your page 1 trailer the enemy actually gets proned when lanced from the horse back



Looks pretty good

that guy was killed actually.

He was definitely laid prone then

you're not wrong.