Preview Risen 2: Dark Waters Preview @ Gamebanshee

[Metro]

What you're saying is the systems were imperfect in previous game. That doesn't mean removing them isn't simplification, it still is. It might be an improvement, sometimes simplification is an improvement. It's still simplification.

It's still simplification but I have the feeling you are using that word with a pejorative slant. Maybe not. I don't recall you making a conclusion about it in the article but I started skimming when I hit the 'Technical' section so I might have missed it. But yes, I would say overall it is an improvement or, at the very least, nothing that impacts the game play. The problem is some of the yard apes here will read the word 'simplification' and go 'hurrr durr, Risen = dumbed down EA shit,' without actually thinking about it.

Also, you missed the point on lockpicks where the minigame is way too easy. Maybe it gets harder later on. But with unbreakable pick and super-easy minigame, I don't understand why you don't just open it when you click it and have the required skill. As is, this is pretty bad implementation.

Fair enough, I guess... But it isn't as if LRRLLLLRR was particularly difficult. Aside from Fingers' chest in G2 I can't remember any chests that were very taxing on the short term memory (and in Risen you even got visual prompts). Essentially you're just trading one mini-game for another but I do agree that it is fairly pointless and should merely be a skill check and open or not based on your skill.

Lockpicking is an actual skill check in G3, not a largely superfluous mini-game. No, it's generally little more than an inconvenience to keep yourself supplied with picks. With clear plateaus in advancement, though, you take out the slow, more graduated progress curve that an actual check would allow for. And for a fighter with just the bare minimum invested in lockpicking, picking every chest would be a chore, while to a dedicated thief, it's a glory. It's not that lockpicking was great and crucial, it's that this seems like a step in the wrong direction by making the sense of character progression simpler and apparently reducing the distinction between classes a bit, though I guess with sufficiently high prerequisites for the skills, this could be avoided.

Even with a fighter build in G3 I was able to max lockpicking (mostly because even with the CP/alternate balancing you can still reach stupidly high levels and have tons of LP). Of course there were very few max level chests (I think I ran into maybe half a dozen) with most being mid-level or low. It doesn't strike me as a step in the wrong direction as lock picking was pretty much a given skill in any PB game (more like a secondary trait than part of a specialized build). You really can't play a thief in any PB game... you could argue it's possible in G3 but... that would be a stretch.

Taking inconsequential stuff out of the game to polish the more important aspects is fine, but I'm not going to celebrate the fact that they went that route instead of finding a way to make those more consequential skills.

I don't necessarily celebrate but I just never entertained the idea that we were going to see them polish the ideas in G1/G2 and make an even deeper and more complex game... especially given current market trends. Perhaps in the PB Kickstarter~

I won't defend the Kill-Cam shit. That's just stupid.

 

[Kraszu]

Skinning of animals was a small choice to make, you could get decent money fast with it, by sacrificing LP, it was even more important choice in G3. I disagree that there is no consequence for it in G3 /w ab, as first of all you are starving for LP at the beginning so there is a choice of what you will be better at for the most of the game, and later on you can get more STR instead or some supporting mage skills, you can't max our everything in G3 /w ab.

I agree that increasing lock pick skill in G2/G1 was an utter waste of LP, but that could had been easily improved.

Risen 2 so far sounds like a mixed bag, on the positive side most previews complain that combat is too hard (and PB developers had said that the game starts easier, and gets harder as game opens up), there seem to be more skill to choose then in Risen. The settings is a good change imo. Risen settings was little blunt, like they wanted to make some differences, but stay with they roots as well that doesn't work, settings must be sharp, and strong in its characteristics. I had also read from PB developers (before they did start making Risen) that they wanted to do different settings for a change. The voodoo magic looks like it can be fun. No quest compass, you have to get maps, and find things yourself. Multiple ways to solve quests. Fraction system even if limited to only two it still offer significant differences from the sound of things. (guns or voodoo being a major one)

On the negative stupid shit like kill cam, and QTE, and the guns implementation, lack of drinking potion animation that can influence the combat very negatively. Simplified skill system. Companion can cause major imbalance in combat, he is immortal but he can be knocked down until the fight is over (how it is decided if the fight is over or not? No enemies nearby that is often annoying when game take into account some enemy that is for example somewhere above you) so that isn't so horrible that it is immortal imo. Lack of swimming.

 

[Brother None]

It's still simplification but I have the feeling you are using that word with a pejorative slant.

It's a factual assessment to say the character system has been simplified. But I can't really judge how well it works based on the first 10 hours, have to play more. For me, previews are more about providing facts than opinion, compared to reviews.

Essentially you're just trading one mini-game for another but I do agree that it is fairly pointless and should merely be a skill check and open or not based on your skill.

It's just boring. Half the time it can be solved by running the mouse from left to right and back.

I won't defend the Kill-Cam shit. That's just stupid.

It'd be ok if it didn't look like shit. It does.

 

[toro]

I hate the fucking monkey. I HATE THE FUCKING MONKEY.

 

[Metro]

Eh, to me it seems like the monkey takes the place of the transform into beetle/crab/whatever spell that you could use to access certain areas -- although it was more prevalent in Risen and just a one-time gimmick in the previous PB games. Although I guess you can steal things with the monkey, too, so... who knows... do you need a certain skill threshold to use it? Maybe it's an alternative to pickpocketing, etc?

 

[Kraszu]

Eh, to me it seems like the monkey takes the place of the transform into beetle/crab/whatever spell that you could use to access certain areas -- although it was more prevalent in Risen and just a one-time gimmick in the previous PB games. Although I guess you can steal things with the monkey, too, so... who knows... do you need a certain skill threshold to use it? Maybe it's an alternative to pickpocketing, etc?

Well transform spell could also be used to by pass enemies, and to transform yourself into strong monster when you were on low level. But I don't hate the monkey looks like it can be fun, and slight change for the times when you are stealing, but there could still be transform magic for other uses.

 

[Brother None]

Although I guess you can steal things with the monkey, too, so... who knows... do you need a certain skill threshold to use it? Maybe it's an alternative to pickpocketing, etc?

It's a cunning-based skill, just like pickpocketing, but a higher-level one. 5 or 6, I think? I kind of forgot. I never got to use it. Not an alternative.

 

[Captain Shrek]

For me, previews are more about providing facts than opinion, compared to reviews.

Although as an afterthought, even reviews OUGHT to be about facts.

 

[Brother None]

Of course, but the balance in fact-to-opinion changes for reviews. As long as you provide good solid facts, and only then draw conclusions that the reader can logically make sense of based on provided information, you're fine. Just random opinionating, not so much.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Once you start drawing logical conclusions its no longer opinions.

 

[Metro]

And once you start over thinking the semantics the thread gets boring~

 

[Captain Shrek]

It doesn't. Really. And this is not really just semantics. Because there is a lot here that can HELP us understand games better. Games aren't serious_business, I know. But its my hobby. MY hobby. Which means I am prepared to go to some lengths for it.

 

[Metro]

YOUR hobby! Anyway, by 'opinion' I thought it would be fairly obvious I meant 'informed opinion' which is basically a logical conclusion, no? Unless you want to go all Good Will Hunting on me. And, no, I don't see a problem with a review (or preview for that matter) giving an informed opinion based on what the reviewer experienced in playing the game so long as they've listed the objective facts.

 

[commie]

Eh, to me it seems like the monkey takes the place of the transform into beetle/crab/whatever spell that you could use to access certain areas -- although it was more prevalent in Risen and just a one-time gimmick in the previous PB games. Although I guess you can steal things with the monkey, too, so... who knows... do you need a certain skill threshold to use it? Maybe it's an alternative to pickpocketing, etc?

Yes but with the transform it was YOU still. With the monkey it's like you have some mindmeld thought control over it and that's pretty stupid unless it's explained in game somehow.

 

[Captain Shrek]

YOUR hobby! Anyway, by 'opinion' I thought it would be fairly obvious I meant 'informed opinion' which is basically a logical conclusion, no? Unless you want to go all Good Will Hunting on me. And, no, I don't see a problem with a review (or preview for that matter) giving an informed opinion based on what the reviewer experienced in playing the game so long as they've listed the objective facts.

We ought to be friends and talk a lot.

 

[Roguey]

Eh, to me it seems like the monkey takes the place of the transform into beetle/crab/whatever spell that you could use to access certain areas -- although it was more prevalent in Risen and just a one-time gimmick in the previous PB games. Although I guess you can steal things with the monkey, too, so... who knows... do you need a certain skill threshold to use it? Maybe it's an alternative to pickpocketing, etc?

Yes but with the transform it was YOU still. With the monkey it's like you have some mindmeld thought control over it and that's pretty stupid unless it's explained in game somehow.

Doesn't seem all that different from the body-hopping in Witcher 2. You tell your trained monkey to get a thing and it does so, only you the player have to control it to get said thing.

 

[commie]

Well playing the beta a bit I get a Risen meets Arcania vibe with the retarded hints, mouse icons highlighting which button to press, all the big ass 'YOU HAVE COMPLETED X' and 'GAME SAVED' every 10 steps. Looks nice though the gesticulating during conversations is laughable and there's the consoletard inventory system. Still, it seems closer to what Risen was than what Arcania is. So far after a few hours I'm optimistic...