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RoA vs Fallout

Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
890
I have tried the game but before I can advance further, I need more info on what attributes do what, and how the general game mechanics work. Right now I lack any direction to advance in the game. The manual helps, but only a little.
 

cutterjohn

Cipher
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Sep 28, 2006
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Bloom County
Bradylama said:
Blame that on the graphics limitations of the time. This has nothing to do with the first person view.

I loved the Imperial City. Oblivion is the best. =)
Barring all of Oblivious's other MAJOR faults, sure IC would've been great if it weren't:
1. deserted
2. the size of a village
3. segmented into multiple interior cells
4. drab
5. entirely devoid of the the background prop features making a major city
etc.

IC was a joke, as were the rest of the peasant farms masquerading as cities in Oblivious. Hell, even Arena(and Daggerfall) did a better job with cities, MW wimped out quite a bit, and Oblivious blew the pooch.
 

Jasede

Arcane
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
The_Nameless_Prick said:
I have tried the game but before I can advance further, I need more info on what attributes do what, and how the general game mechanics work. Right now I lack any direction to advance in the game. The manual helps, but only a little.

Do you mean RoA? What's so hard to figure out? My manual is 96 pages long and explains every detail. Can't you phrase your question a little bit more specifically? Why don't you figure it out like we did in the old days? By fiddling around? Eh, but anyway.


  • Bravery helps resisting spells, and also lowers the combat penalties for being wounded.
    Wisdom gives boni to casting spells.
    Charisma grants aptitude with social skills and some spells. Important for witches.
    Dexterity makes ranged combat, spellcasting and thieving easier.
    Agility significantly increases combat performance and physical skills.
    Intuition is of use for witches, as it helps with their spells.
    Strength increases carrying capacity and damage. It's the most useful stat.

Right. Forget about the negative attributes. Just know that a low superstition is VERY helpful. Now let's go a bit more in-depth.

You have many spells and skills, right? Now you need to know this: Every skills and spell is tied to three attributes, which significantly improve its usefulness. Examples:

The "Evil Eye" druid spell is tied to Bravery/Charisma/Charisma. That means a druid with high charisma and bravery will have a much higher success casting it at skill level 5 than a druid who didn't invest into those stats.
"Lockpicking" is tied to Intuition/Dexterity/Dexterity. That means if you don't give your dwarf/thief decent scores in Dexterity, he will be gimped. You can mitigate this by increasing the lockpicking skill, but that gets very costly at higher levels.

So here are my suggestions:

First two levels: Increase strength. Yes, even for the wizards. Why? This game is heavy on logistics. If you want to be safe from diseases and get decent rest at need, you will lug A LOT of stuff around, and that's not yet counting rations, spare water skins, second set of boots, extra weapons. And with only 13 STR or less you won't be able to. Not comfortably.

Further levels as follows:


  • * Dwarf
    Work on lockpicking, haggle, and axes. Stats: STR/AGL/STR/DEX, loop.
    * Warrior
    Work on edged weapons and two-handed weapons. Stats: STR/AGL/STR, loop
    * Rogue
    Work on swords, social skills, lockpicking if dwarfless. Stats: DEX/AGL/STR, loop
    * Hunter
    Work on ranged weapons, swords and nature skills. Stats: AGL/DEX/STR, loop
    * Elf
    Like Hunter, except: Stats: AGL/DEX/INT(ution), loop
    * Wizard
    Work on knowledge, alchemy, spears. Stats: WIS/DEX/WIS, loop

Don't use any other classes on your first play-through. Refer to the hints I gave in a different thread. Also, Astral Energy >> Life Points >> Spell Picks. Pump AE!

Jasede's patented beginner party:

Warrior/Dwarf/Elf/Rogue/Wizard/Wizard

Wizards should develop a very BROAD palette of spells. Don't specialize too much. Spell skills > 5 are useful only with Ignifaxius, Fulminuctus, Transversalis and Foramen Foraminor. (Okay, there's some more benefit with some difficult to cast spells. In general, increase it when it fails too often, but once you get a good success rate, work on other spells instead.)
Edged weapons are the most powerful, but you'll never find an unbreakable one, so warriors should also train two-handed. Dwarves work on axes. Your elf will get a good sword in RoA 1 and an even better one in RoA 2, as well as a magic bow. The rogue can work on swords, but should take advantage of piercing weapons at the beginning.

Important:
Attack > Parry. Never increase parry. NEVER.
 

Brother None

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
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Messages
5,673
Falcore19 said:
I've tried RoA last night... the character generation pissed me the fuck off. It has the worst inneffective, poorly designed interface I've ever seen, making you waste time by having to use stupid menus, or by forcing you to manually assign "attempts" one by one. Whoever created this interface was a rat in a cave with no life.

Heh, yeah, that'd be PnP character generation.

"Too old" indeed.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Thanks, Jasede. I downloaded it from Sheek's link and the download only came with a few page manual that only came with the basics. I am the kind of person who likes to know-before-he-goes so to speak. When I first bought Baldur's Gate 2, back when I was about 13 or 14, I knew NOTHING about DnD rules, so I got confused fast. I stayed up all night reading the thick manual about how DnD fits its way into Baldur's Gate and sure enough, the next day I started playing for a week straight.
 

sheek

Arbiter
Joined
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Location
Cydonia
Falcore19 said:
I've tried RoA last night... the character generation pissed me the fuck off. It has the worst inneffective, poorly designed interface I've ever seen, making you waste time by having to use stupid menus, or by forcing you to manually assign "attempts" one by one. Whoever created this interface was a rat in a cave with no life.

Is this reprensatative of the rest of the game? If so, then I'm too old for this shit; this reminds me of NES rpgs where the simplest tasks took 30 minutes instead of 3 seconds, just because you had to do things manually one by one, and the developpers didn't see it as a flaw because it turned them on.

Like Jasede says you suck. Also goes for the other complaints. The whole point is that menus/simple 2D allows you to use the keyboard. If you know the controls and what to do it becomes very easy in a way modern interfaces can't.

For RoA, you navigate with the keyboard. You look at the compass in front of you and you do not hold buttons down. You uncover the whole map first then you put markers for buildings you are interested in. Every time you visit that town in future you will be incredibly simple. If you just want to sell loot from a dungeon you can get to the shop in about ten seconds.

(As for chargen, it is very well designed. You right-click to get the menu up, you use up/down cursor keys to select an option and left/right to go to the next section.)

Of course it is not ideal and could be made even better, for example with alternative fast travel in towns. The point is that in comparison with isometric/fully-detailed towns it is a step ahead.

[If your complaint is that there is just too much detail (tastes differ), switch to Novice mode.]

Anyone got a link for a (cough, preferably abandonware, cough) copy of Shadows over Riva?

There is one, at least was a year or so ago, but I can't remember where.

All your manuals are at replacementdocs.com

[But the Spell section in the official manual is shit. Get the guide from Abandonia.com, it has a brief description of skills and spells which is useful]
 

Brother None

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
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Messages
5,673
undead dolphin hacker said:
Anyone got a link for a (cough, preferably abandonware, cough) copy of Shadows over Riva?

Shadows over Riva has been rereleased and is no longer abandonware. Blade of Destiny and Star Trail can be downloaded legally as abandonware as far as I know, but Shadows over Riva can only be bought (or downloaded illegally).
 
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Kharn said:
undead dolphin hacker said:
Anyone got a link for a (cough, preferably abandonware, cough) copy of Shadows over Riva?

Shadows over Riva has been rereleased and is no longer abandonware. Blade of Destiny and Star Trail can be downloaded legally as abandonware as far as I know, but Shadows over Riva can only be bought (or downloaded illegally).

Abandonware isn't actually legal, y'know. Just that nobody cares. Or was that changed in the abandonware law revision thing a week or two ago?
 

Falcore19

Novice
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
81
sheek said:
Falcore19 said:
Like Jasede says you suck. Also goes for the other complaints. The whole point is that menus/simple 2D allows you to use the keyboard. If you know the controls and what to do it becomes very easy in a way modern interfaces can't.

You guys don't get my point at all. My complaint isn't with menus and keyboard per se, I like it better than point and click(I liked FRUA for an example).

The problem is how they use the menus for the char gen, it's horrendous. Instead of giving you a sheet where you can directly edit the data by moving with the keyboard or by clicking on it, you have to bring the menu everytime you want to edit something. Want to raise a stat? Right click to bring the menu, go to edit stat, choose a stat. That's just one point. You have to repeat it again for every point, then for every stat.
Then you have 50 attempts to spend, and some more. You have to do the same for every attempt, assigning them one by one, through a menu. This is very inneficient, and a major waste of time.

I won't even go farther if the rest of the game is designed that way. You're talking about rations and loot, I can only imagine inventory management with that kind of design. This won't be fun.
 

suibhne

Erudite
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
1,951
Location
Chicago
Admiral jimbob said:
Abandonware isn't actually legal, y'know. Just that nobody cares. Or was that changed in the abandonware law revision thing a week or two ago?

As far as I can tell from the rules revision, not really. It looks like the exception only applies to emulation of hardware which no longer exists, and it's questionable whether this applies to old DOS games (for example) since the language is specific about "hardware". It's very clearly aimed at consoles.
 

FrancoTAU

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
2,507
Location
Brooklyn, NY
The only real change is that you're legally allowed to crack games that are no longer actively sold and/or supported. So, it's still technically illegal to d/l abandonware but you can distribute a crack as much as you want.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
suibhne said:
As far as I can tell from the rules revision, not really. It looks like the exception only applies to emulation of hardware which no longer exists, and it's questionable whether this applies to old DOS games (for example) since the language is specific about "hardware". It's very clearly aimed at consoles.
Doesn't that cover old DOS games which won't run on modern hardware even under DOS, or hardware that isn't even capable of running actual DOS anymore?
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
890
Like Sheek says, everyone has different tastes. Alot of people here think Neverwinter Nights 2 is a good/great game when in fact I can't stand it at all. I am playing Bloodlines right now and I think it is a kick ass game. I am now downloading MTW 2 (legally) and know I'm gonna love that too. Different strokes for different folks people, as long as you don't like Oblivion and don't think NWN 2 is "great" your OK in my book.
 

cutterjohn

Cipher
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
1,629
Location
Bloom County
Admiral jimbob said:
Kharn said:
undead dolphin hacker said:
Anyone got a link for a (cough, preferably abandonware, cough) copy of Shadows over Riva?

Shadows over Riva has been rereleased and is no longer abandonware. Blade of Destiny and Star Trail can be downloaded legally as abandonware as far as I know, but Shadows over Riva can only be bought (or downloaded illegally).

Abandonware isn't actually legal, y'know. Just that nobody cares. Or was that changed in the abandonware law revision thing a week or two ago?
Actually in the US the copyright office was making noises about products no longer available/supported being exempted from copright protection for the purpose of providing backups. The caveat, IIRC, was that you still could, theoretically, not make them available for download, however I'd expect that to go away or not be enforced at it would entirely negate the exemption.
 

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