Roger Ebert: VIDYA GAEMS CAN'T BE ART!!1

[Korgan]

I so wish it was a parody.

...hell.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Roger - as you are sure to be inundated with comments for this post, I will simply say: You just don't get it.

p. much

not that I care anymore since those people will gladly accept a jar of piss as art, in a desperate attempt to be as far from the mundanes as possible

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

Meh, I agree with him.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Twist the truth - then twist your arm,
It's the Emperor Caligula School of Charm,
Don't take his word 'cause it's not worth having it
(he's an Art-Nazi)
He's a tinpot Hitler gone berserk,
A self-made man from another man's work,
More tongue in cheek than a french kiss from Judas Iscariot.

I've been to a prison - one of my own making,
I sent myself there when I signed on the line.
A pact with the Devil so legally binding -
Now he owns my soul 'til the end of time.

He owns all we eat - all we breathe,
All we take and all we leave,
All we are and all we ever will be.

Think of all the time and the energy we've wasted.
Learning how the sole of a Jack-boot tasted,
Anyone would think that he was doing us a favour -
(he's an Art-Nazi)
His name goes hand in hand with notoriety -
Bigot of the highly illegitimate variety.
I'm sick of eating shit - can I try another flavour.

What you give with one hand you take with the other,
We are your puppets and you pull the strings.
Don't make the fatal mistake of forgetting -
It's never really over 'til the fat lady sings.

He knows all we think - all we do,
Head he wins - and tails we lose.
He's our Fuhrer - he's our Lord and Master.

Twist the truth - then twist your arm,
It's the Emperor Caligula School of Charm,
Don't take his word 'cause it's not worth having it -
(He's an Art-Nazi)
He's a tinpot Hitler gone berserk,
A self-made man from another man's work,
More tongue in cheek than a french kiss from Judas Iscariot.
His name goes hand in hand with notoriety -
Bigot of the highly illegitimate variety.
I'm sick of eating shit - can I try another flavour.
(He's an Art-Nazi)

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Jesus what the fuck is the big deal over this whole fucking navel-gazing wankery IS IT ART circlejerk

Oh man this game has a really great art direction BUT IS IT ART????

Oh man this game is really absorbing and immersive BUT IS IT ART???????

Oh man this game has a great narrative flow and thematic depth BUT IS IT ART????? I NEED TO KNOW THIS I CAN'T ALLOW MYSELF TO ENJOY IT UNLESS IT FITS SOME ARBITRARY DEFINITION OF AN ABSTRACT WANKY CONCEPT

 

[Korgan]

Meh, I agree with him.

Dwarf Fortress isn't art?

 

[Jaime Lannister]

this is you, korgan

 

[Erzherzog]

Pretty lousy piece of writing from Ebert that fails to define what art is in his opinion, therefore he can just cherry pick certain elements for the lulz.

Plus, why is he so insistent that video games must have winning conditions? That's not true at all.

I mean it's all just rambling, it's hard to describe what's so wrong with his statements because he's simply not making any sense.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

Meh, I agree with him.

Dwarf Fortress isn't art?

 

[-=DarlSephiroth666=-]

If video games are art, then sitcoms have to be art as well.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

By the way, should the Codex chip in and send him two copies of PS:T? One to play, the other to stick up his ass.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

If video games are art, then sitcoms have to be art as well.

They are, since it's acting

people have this notion that "art" means "good art", just like "rpg" means "good rpg"

 

[Korgan]

this is you, korgan

 

[Elwro]

Is this the guy who is for some reason always quoted on wikipedia pages about films?

 

[Trash]

Jesus what the fuck is the big deal over this whole fucking navel-gazing wankery IS IT ART circlejerk

What would thousands of over-inflated and self-impostant ego's do without it?

 

[-=DarlSephiroth666=-]

If video games are art, then sitcoms have to be art as well.

They are, since it's acting

people have this notion that "art" means "good art", just like "rpg" means "good rpg"

Art is connected to aesthetics, it has to evoke some kind of emotions, be it rapture or disgust. That's why dull things can't be art.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

Meh, I agree with him.

I mean, really, how couldn't you? Just read what the defenders of the "games as art" make themselves say:

Mass Effect basically lets you star in an exceptionally well-written science fiction TV series. Assassin's Creed puts you in the Holy Land during the crusades, where Muslims are allowed to be interesting characters with their own complex opinions.

One of my all-time favorite games is called Mass Effect. It's a sci-fi-themed game set a couple hundred years from now, in which humanity has branched out throughout the galaxy and is currently interacting with various types of friendly aliens. One of the things that makes the story so unique is that the player has complete control over everything the main character says and does, meaning that aspects of the plot can be shaped as the player sees fit. It's an interactive story, in other words, which only a video game could pull off.[...]Mass Effect has an intelligent script, an imaginative setting and some fantastic twists in its final act.

Baldurs Gate 1&2, Fallout 1&2, Star wars knights of the old republic, Final Fantasy 6,7,8, mass effect. These games are all art that are comparable with any of the great works of any poet, composer, artist etc. Beautifully made, with great stories, powerful and emotional

The same could be said for Mass Effect or Dragon Age, games that have touched me deeply, with characters I feel for and strive to know better. I have to understand their plight and their lives

Games like Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age by BioWare both take on hard questions, deal with fascinating choices and grapple with questions that cause you to think.

A games like Mass Effect 2 should be considered art just as much as any movie, and to not put them on the same level is puzzling.

In the past, this "control" was more limited -- you can only make Mario go in one direction! -- but nowadays, with games like Infamous and Mass Effect, the outcome of the game is affected deeply by the various, numerous choices you make when it comes to playing your character.

....And so on and so on. This is what the absolute majority of video gamers actually believe. Obviously nothing made for the likes of these can be art.

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

Meh, I agree with him.

Dwarf Fortress isn't art?

Haven't played it but I doubt it. I wouldn't consider Planescape Torment art and that's frequently cited as the most art-like video game. Literary narrative and gameplay are two competing priorities and are exclusive from each other. Even in RPGs with dialogue, that dialogue is weighed down with gameplay information -- "Where can I find the village blacksmith?" -- that disrupts the thread of characterization, often minimal, and plot development. Furthermore, developing coherent thematic meaning depends on the actions and feelings of the characters, and the events of the plot happening in a certain way. If Player Achilles tells NPC Patroclus not to worry that the ships are on fire, because he's returning to action, and then after an epic battle through the Trojan ranks, he slays the boss mob Hector, then the themes of the Iliad are never developed and you're left with mush. Likewise, if Player Achilles keeps dying to boss Hector and quits the game. Of course, you can tightly control all of this, but then what room is there for the player's skill and choices if he can't die to a boss because the plot demands it? Again, gameplay and narrative are competing forces, and for that reason games in so far as they're games and not long uninteractive cutscenes, i.e. movies, won't ever be a literary medium.

 

[desocupado]

Some sitcoms do evoke disgust. Don't think it's intentional, though.

Also

Jesus what the fuck is the big deal over this whole fucking navel-gazing wankery IS IT ART circlejerk

Oh man this game has a really great art direction BUT IS IT ART????

Oh man this game is really absorbing and immersive BUT IS IT ART???????

Oh man this game has a great narrative flow and thematic depth BUT IS IT ART????? I NEED TO KNOW THIS I CAN'T ALLOW MYSELF TO ENJOY IT UNLESS IT FITS SOME ARBITRARY DEFINITION OF AN ABSTRACT WANKY CONCEPT

 

[Clockwork Knight]

This whole doubt exists because people can't accept that art can be buyable entertainment. As in, it must be a divinely inspired work that gives you a sense of over the unwashed masses, otherwise it isn't art.

 

[CrimHead]

TBH I don't give a fuck if video games are art or not. I enjoy them.

 

[DriacKin]

Santiago might cite a immersive game without points or rules, but I would say then it ceases to be a game and becomes a representation of a story, a novel, a play, dance, a film. Those are things you cannot win; you can only experience them.

Fuck Yeah!!! Even a non-gamer like Roger Ebert can agree that Heavy Rain shouldn't be called a game.

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

Meh, I agree with him.

I mean, really, how couldn't you? Just read what the defenders of the "games as art" make themselves say:

Mass Effect basically lets you star in an exceptionally well-written science fiction TV series. Assassin's Creed puts you in the Holy Land during the crusades, where Muslims are allowed to be interesting characters with their own complex opinions.

One of my all-time favorite games is called Mass Effect. It's a sci-fi-themed game set a couple hundred years from now, in which humanity has branched out throughout the galaxy and is currently interacting with various types of friendly aliens. One of the things that makes the story so unique is that the player has complete control over everything the main character says and does, meaning that aspects of the plot can be shaped as the player sees fit. It's an interactive story, in other words, which only a video game could pull off.[...]Mass Effect has an intelligent script, an imaginative setting and some fantastic twists in its final act.

Baldurs Gate 1&2, Fallout 1&2, Star wars knights of the old republic, Final Fantasy 6,7,8, mass effect. These games are all art that are comparable with any of the great works of any poet, composer, artist etc. Beautifully made, with great stories, powerful and emotional

The same could be said for Mass Effect or Dragon Age, games that have touched me deeply, with characters I feel for and strive to know better. I have to understand their plight and their lives

Games like Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age by BioWare both take on hard questions, deal with fascinating choices and grapple with questions that cause you to think.

A games like Mass Effect 2 should be considered art just as much as any movie, and to not put them on the same level is puzzling.

In the past, this "control" was more limited -- you can only make Mario go in one direction! -- but nowadays, with games like Infamous and Mass Effect, the outcome of the game is affected deeply by the various, numerous choices you make when it comes to playing your character.

....And so on and so on. This is what the absolute majority of video gamers actually believe. Obviously nothing made for the likes of these can be art.

Seriously. By and large, gamers spend their time playing games instead of reading great literature. Without an example of something truly profound and beautiful, they have nothing to which they can compare their games, and are unable to discover how lacking games are when it comes to thematic meaning and true, awe-inspiring beauty. I frequently wish I was on the other side of the generation gap with gaming, so that I'd spend more of my time reading and studying. Still games can be a hell of a lot of fun, but works of art which shape and change how you view the world, leading you to become a more humane, and human, person? Not so much.

Also, I don't mean to sound as if I'm looking down my nose. My gf back in Boston would only read a book if it's the prequel novel for some game, but that didn't mean she wasn't an awesome person and great to be around, just that she probably wasn't a very good arbitrator of artistic merit.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

spend they're time

Location: Boston

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

spend they're time

Location: Boston

Yeah I caught that just a second too late for you. I'm well aware of the distinction between they're (contraction of they are), their (possesive plural pronoun) and there (adverb denoting place), but I generally don't proofread my posts.