Editorial RPG Codex Report: A Codexian Visit to inXile Entertainment

[Deleted member 7219]

One of the main reasons why the storytelling is so strong is because Avellone took the narrative premise from “Pages of Pain”, which was written by Troy Denning. Without that premise, the game wouldn’t be as much as memorable. At the very least they would need to commission another premise from Denning if they wanted to make the same impact, since the old one only works one time.

No, he didn't. He was already writing the story by the time PoP came out.

Yes, and you just took his word for it, even though the premise is exactly the same. Let's see, an amnesiac "zombie" traces the footsteps of his prior lives alongside a tiefling, and his memories are inscribed on his body, but they are sores, instead of tattoos. What are the odds that someone would come up with the exact idea about a novel involving a character of Planescape? Close to zero. How do you decide to interpret this? "Avellone said he didn't plagiarize the whole thing, so it must be true". That's fanboy logic. If I were Troy Denning, I would be furious that someone would be described as the best cRPG writer in the industry for making a game with my idea and never gave me any credit.

Mysteries of Westgate was being developed the same time as Mask of the Betrayer. Both were NWN2 expansions and both featured cursed masks. It doesn't mean one plagiarised the other. By all accounts it seems Ossian Studios were really unfortunate that they happened to pick a theme which was also being developed by Obsidian, and nobody told them.

 

[Severian Silk]

The Codex isn't large enough or influential enough to affect a multi-million dollar game's success

In terms of creating bile, I think the Codex has done several multi-million dollars worth of work.

 

[t]

One of the main reasons why the storytelling is so strong is because Avellone took the narrative premise from “Pages of Pain”, which was written by Troy Denning. Without that premise, the game wouldn’t be as much as memorable. At the very least they would need to commission another premise from Denning if they wanted to make the same impact, since the old one only works one time.

No, he didn't. He was already writing the story by the time PoP came out.

Yes, and you just took his word for it, even though the premise is exactly the same. Let's see, an amnesiac "zombie" traces the footsteps of his prior lives alongside a tiefling, and his memories are inscribed on his body, but they are sores, instead of tattoos. What are the odds that someone would come up with the exact idea about a novel involving a character of Planescape? Close to zero. How do you decide to interpret this? "Avellone said he didn't plagiarize the whole thing, so it must be true". That's fanboy logic. If I were Troy Denning, I would be furious that someone would be described as the best cRPG writer in the industry for making a game with my idea and never gave me any credit.

I didn't read Pages of Pain, but I faintly remember a book by Ray and Valerie Valesse that was roughly about TNO. Is it also a plagiarization of Pages of Pain?

 

[Lurker King]

Mysteries of Westgate was being developed the same time as Mask of the Betrayer. Both were NWN2 expansions and both featured cursed masks. It doesn't mean one plagiarised the other.

That was supposed to prove me wrong? You are only making more plausible the suspicion that they were both either taking the idea from a common source, or that one team took the idea from the other. Anyway, cursed masks is an ancient trope of fiction, "an amnesiac dude that traces the footsteps of his prior lives alongside a tiefling, and his memories are inscribed on his body" is not. Stop denying the facts. Avellone never acknowledge that because that is the most special thing about PS:T. If he had done that, he probably would not be praised so much, and Denning would be probably invited to work in the game industry.

 

[Sizzle]

Avellone never acknowledge that because that is the most special thing about PS:T.

Really? That's the most special thing about PS:T? Not the subversion of fantasy tropes, the writing, narrative structure, the characters, Sigil - the most awesomely special thing about it was "amnesiac dude traveling with a tiefling"?

 

[Grauken]

"an amnesiac dude that traces the footsteps of his prior lives"

That trope is so fucking common in fantasy its not even funny

 

[Lurker King]

Avellone never acknowledge that because that is the most special thing about PS:T.

Really? That's the most special thing about PS:T? Not the subversion of fantasy tropes, the writing, narrative structure, the characters, Sigil - the most awesomely special thing about it was "amnesiac dude traveling with a tiefling"?

The immediate connection that you have with the main character is caused by the premise, that makes your present condition connected to your past. The relation with the NPCs and the exploration of the game world are special because they are tied to a journey of self-discovery, that involves doubt and suspicion. Can I trust this skull? People already know me? What if I did this? Am I stuck in a fatalistic cicle? Without any of that you just have another generic cRPG with Planescape stuff and a badcatchphrase.

 

[Lurker King]

"an amnesiac dude that traces the footsteps of his prior lives"

That trope is so fucking common in fantasy its not even funny

Really? With a NPC at his side and memories inscribed on his body too?

 

[Grauken]

yes to NPCs if you mean other characters, no to the inscribed memories, but that is a rather small step

 

[Sizzle]

Avellone never acknowledge that because that is the most special thing about PS:T.

Really? That's the most special thing about PS:T? Not the subversion of fantasy tropes, the writing, narrative structure, the characters, Sigil - the most awesomely special thing about it was "amnesiac dude traveling with a tiefling"?

The immediate connection that you have with the main character and you will never have in any other game is because the premise involving your past. The relation with the NPCs and the exploration of the game world are special because they are tied to a journey of self-discovery, that involves doubt and suspicion. Can I trust this skull? People already know me? What if I did this? Am I stuck in a fatalistic cicle? Without any of that you just have another generic cRPG with Planescape stuff and a badcatchphrase.

You're selling the game short. While that was indeed a fundamentally important aspect of it, the game still had plenty of systems that didn't hinge on the "immortal amnesiac" angle - the use of typically "dump" stats in IE games: wisdom, intelligence, charisma; training to be a thief/mage; changing your alignment to reflect your in-game actions; different and unusual gear and items; philosophical discussions and themes; etc.

 

[mondblut]

Not a single word about punishing Brother None for being dark harbinger of Gamescon related bad news, how come? BN rubbed his balls on these boards with great pleasure, mentioned how tier 1 sites got preferred instead of 'dex, so I was expecting to see pics with his arse spanked alright!

The Knights who say 'Decline' demand a sacrifice! Bring us the head of Brother "gas the kikes" None on a plate. Only then Inxile will be given another chance.

 

[Lurker King]

You're selling the game short. While that was indeed a fundamentally important aspect of it, the game still had plenty of systems that didn't hinge on the "immortal amnesiac" angle - the use of typically "dump" stats in IE games: wisdom, intelligence, charisma; training to be a thief/mage; changing your alignment to reflect your in-game actions; different and unusual gear and items; philosophical discussions and themes; etc.

I think that the PS:T team's merit lies on the way they tied the premise to the gameplay for the most part. The rest is just the icing on the cake when is done right, or bad.

 

[Lurker King]

yes to NPCs if you mean other characters, no to the inscribed memories, but that is a rather small step

Inscribed memories is a small part? If any other writer did the same thing, people would gang upon him.

 

[Severian Silk]

Didn't Mark Morgan rip off Aphex Twin or something when composing the Fallout soundtrack?

 

[Fairfax]

One of the main reasons why the storytelling is so strong is because Avellone took the narrative premise from “Pages of Pain”, which was written by Troy Denning. Without that premise, the game wouldn’t be as much as memorable. At the very least they would need to commission another premise from Denning if they wanted to make the same impact, since the old one only works one time.

No, he didn't. He was already writing the story by the time PoP came out.

Yes, and you just took his word for it, even though the premise is exactly the same. Let's see, an amnesiac "zombie" traces the footsteps of his prior lives alongside a tiefling, and his memories are inscribed on his body, but they are sores, instead of tattoos. What are the odds that someone would come up with the exact idea about a novel involving a character of Planescape? Close to zero. How do you decide to interpret this? "Avellone said he didn't plagiarize the whole thing, so it must be true". That's fanboy logic. If I were Troy Denning, I would be furious that someone would be described as the best cRPG writer in the industry for making a game with my idea and never gave me any credit.

"Fanboy logic" coming from you?

PoP was released in September 96. PS:T's pre-production started in early 96. According to Colin, who joined the project in October 96, MCA had already written half the story on his own before other writers came along. MCA did get many ideas from other works, and he has acknowledged them several times. The amnesiac protagonist was from Chronicles of Amber, and so was the central question.

 

[Tacgnol]

Didn't Mark Morgan rip off Aphex Twin or something when composing the Fallout soundtrack?

He was heavily influenced by Brian Eno, but not sure about Aphex Twin.

 

[StaticSpine]

Didn't Mark Morgan rip off Aphex Twin or something when composing the Fallout soundtrack?

He was heavily influenced by Brian Eno, but not sure about Aphex Twin.

 

[Severian Silk]

Didn't Mark Morgan rip off Aphex Twin or something when composing the Fallout soundtrack?

He was heavily influenced by Brian Eno, but not sure about Aphex Twin.

Fallout soundtrack is still superior to all those.

 

[Tacgnol]

Didn't Mark Morgan rip off Aphex Twin or something when composing the Fallout soundtrack?

He was heavily influenced by Brian Eno, but not sure about Aphex Twin.

Interesting. Quite a few influences then.

 

[StaticSpine]

Didn't Mark Morgan rip off Aphex Twin or something when composing the Fallout soundtrack?

He was heavily influenced by Brian Eno, but not sure about Aphex Twin.

Fallout soundtrack is still superior to all those.

Sure. But the video is still p. interesting.

 

[Severian Silk]

Sure. But the video is still p. interesting.

Yes, it is interesting that the Fallout soundtrack is so much better.

 

[Kalin]

According to St Timothy Cain, he gave Morgan a mix-tape with dark ambient stuff he'd made and asked him to make music that sounds like it, but wasn't the same as it.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

According to St Timothy Cain, he gave Morgan a mix-tape with dark ambient stuff he'd made and asked him to make music that sounds like it, but wasn't the same as it.

That old excuse never explained this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyfOv-jEhqc

https://youtu.be/Z_bIxRO0aDA?t=80



Edit: I just read that the Shark Attack 2 soundtrack was also composed by Mark Morgan, woops. Sorry Mr. Morgan

 

[The Village Loon]

According to St Timothy Cain, he gave Morgan a mix-tape with dark ambient stuff he'd made and asked him to make music that sounds like it, but wasn't the same as it.

That old excuse never explained this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyfOv-jEhqc

https://youtu.be/Z_bIxRO0aDA?t=80

This means Planescape Torment is to art what Shark Attack 2 is to art.

 

[Irenaeus]

Could it be that the quality of the walls of text matters? Or perhaps, could it be that back then, you had to write a lot due to technical restrictions which now no longer exist and therefore, much of badly written expiatory text seem redundant? Why write "The old man rubbed his chin, his eyes darting about like a scurrying rat" when you can just have a model or animated portrait do it?

If NPCs had portraits half the words in the game could have been axed.