Review RPG Codex Review: Tyranny - Kyros Demands Better

[Prime Junta]

I'm pretty disappointed that the gameplay is that bad. I don't know what is with Obsidian. Sure, their gameplay design was always a bit sketchy, but they are getting worse and worse. I can't believe that with Tim Cain there, this is the best they can do. They should really push their junior level designers aside and use Tim or even Josh.

Apparently this was a side project by junior designers. Good gameplay is hard. It's not surprising they fucked it up.

IMO Obsidian's mistake was letting them make their own mechanics to start with. They could easily have told them "Sure, you can do this, but stick to the Pillars classes with cosmetic re-skinning for flavour only." Not only would that have saved a significant amount of development and testing effort, they would've gotten a mature, thoroughly play-tested system for free. I'm fairly certain they would've grumbled but gotten on with it, and the game would've been much better as a result.

Besides, it would've been easier to sell. I'm sure a lot of Pillars fans would've been delighted to get this is as a light snack while waiting for Pillars 2.

 

[Fairfax]

I don't make this stuff up. That's the impression that I've gotten, and it's hardly a positive one. Lackluster combat design and cut corners are bad things. "But you didn't say the game is totally hated!" Well, it isn't. I know what pure Codex hate looks like and this isn't it.

You said the review "closely reflects" the public opinion here, which is bullshit.

 

[hell bovine]

Lantry had over 100 lore by the time act 2 started (not sure about my mage, though). :D You can get that easily with his talents & lore trainers. What is very annoying is that the master lore trainer resides... in the infirmary.

That would prolly require running back to the trainer in the Scarlet Chorus camp every time he levels up?

I confess I didn't do that or use those trainers all that much in general; once past the Ascension Hall fight the game got so easy I didn't want to intentionally make it even easier.

Not really, I used the trainers whenever passing by, but he also gets 30 lore from his talents. I've played on PotD, however, and I wonder whether your party doesn't end up slightly higher level, because the hp bloat ensures the early combat drags on. Later the chaotic descent spells just melt everything (chained spells do too, but I found that sigil only at the very end). Unfortunately enemies don't get those sigils and that's the problem - they are stuck with basic spells.

 

[oneself]

What happened to the drama-inducing AoD bit?

EDIT ME BLIND

Companion only sigil can be taught to you if you meet certain criteria, in the case of Lantry that requirement is simply you asking it.

I don't make this stuff up. That's the impression that I've gotten, and it's hardly a positive one. Lackluster combat design and cut corners are bad things. "But you didn't say the game is totally hated!" Well, it isn't. I know what pure Codex hate looks like and this isn't it.

You said the review "closely reflects" the public opinion here, which is bullshit.

He didn't say popular public opinion. Just that there exists an opinion in the public space that shares the tone of the review

 

[vortex]

What needs to be added in the gameplay to be fun and interesting? I believe Tyranny won't be the only title in this project.

 

[Prime Junta]

What needs to be added in the gameplay to be fun and interesting? I believe Tyranny won't be the only title in this project.

Wrong thread?

I addressed some of that in the review. Can expand on it if you like.

 

[GloomFrost]

I'm pretty disappointed that the gameplay is that bad. I don't know what is with Obsidian. Sure, their gameplay design was always a bit sketchy, but they are getting worse and worse. I can't believe that with Tim Cain there, this is the best they can do. They should really push their junior level designers aside and use Tim or even Josh.

Apparently this was a side project by junior designers. Good gameplay is hard. It's not surprising they fucked it up.

IMO Obsidian's mistake was letting them make their own mechanics to start with. They could easily have told them "Sure, you can do this, but stick to the Pillars classes with cosmetic re-skinning for flavour only." Not only would that have saved a significant amount of development and testing effort, they would've gotten a mature, thoroughly play-tested system for free. I'm fairly certain they would've grumbled but gotten on with it, and the game would've been much better as a result.

Besides, it would've been easier to sell. I'm sure a lot of Pillars fans would've been delighted to get this is as a light snack while waiting for Pillars 2.

I m 99% sure that one of the reasons for changing combat system is that Tranny going to come out on consoles. (4 party members instead of 6, lots and lots of abilities you have to activate). Also young RPG gamers now days prefer classless system. Playing a strong big knight who can shoot fireballs is really cool and radical.

 

[KyivAfter12am]

I would dearly love to see more games give the kind of attention to world-building

Quick, name 3 things unique and interesting about Tyranny's "worldbuilding".

 

[Prime Junta]

I m 99% sure that one of the reasons for changing combat system is that Tranny going to come out on consoles. (4 party members instead of 6, lots and lots of abilities you have to activate). Also young RPG gamers now days prefer classless system. Playing a strong big knight who can shoot fireballs is really cool and radical.

I hope you're wrong. I fear you may not be.

I think it would be rather stupid though. Tyranny's an obvious low-budget niche title; going console with that would be a big effort with likely not all that big return. Whatever the reasons, the gameplay changes from Pillars to Tyranny certainly feel like the changes from the IE games to DA:O, skipping entirely over the NWNs.

 

[Prime Junta]

Quick, name 3 things unique and interesting about Tyranny's "worldbuilding".

(1) Power dynamics between Kyros, the Archons, and ordinary mooks.
(2) Edicts, their use in warfare, and how that affected the way wars are waged and empires built.
(3) Politics and organisation of ruling an empire when you have immortals with massive magical power at the top, but Bronze Age technology for transport, communication, and most other stuff.

 

[an Administrator]

Best part

 

[Goral]

I haven't read the review but judging by the comments the general consensus is that it's shit.

 

[Delterius]

He didn't say popular public opinion. Just that there exists an opinion in the public space that shares the tone of the review.

I'm starting to see why you were sent to jail.

 

[Grinolf]

Other than Age of Decadence, coincidentally also set in a grim pre-Medieval world, this hasn’t been done in this scale in recent years.

Neither of games are set in "the grim pre-Medieval world," neither they are even set during the same time period, as both games are set apart by around thousand years in the real world. I have no idea how some non-issue created a very big drama during editorial process, but everyone overlooked this very triggering part.

 

[Infinitron]

lol, that's exactly the non-issue you're referring to.

 

[Prime Junta]

Neither of games are set in "the grim pre-Medieval world," neither they are even set during the same time period, as both games are set apart by around thousand years in the real world. I have no idea how some non-issue created a very big drama during editorial process, but everyone overlooked this very triggering part.

Sometimes I wish I did this kind of thing on purpose.

 

[Whisper]

I haven't read the review but judging by the comments the general consensus is that it's shit.

It is.

 

[Whisper]

Game is just bad, most of choises are Bioware-types.

For example you CANT stay loyal to Kyros. No matter what you do.
Most of things that change is that you either fight red guys with blue guys or fight blue guys with red guys.

Also, dialogue choices (Athletics, Subterfuge, Lore) are available in 1 playthough, you can easily get access to every choice in dialogue with 1 character. Compare this to AoD where you stats and skill did matter in dialogues and different characters had different choices.

There are 4 paths: lawful evil, chaotic evil, anarchist and rebel. Difference is mininal. Most important is that you get 1 area locked in your playthough (or do not get locked at all in anarchist).


Why none of this is mentioned in "review"?

 

[KyivAfter12am]

Quick, name 3 things unique and interesting about Tyranny's "worldbuilding".

(1) Power dynamics between Kyros, the Archons, and ordinary mooks.
(2) Edicts, their use in warfare, and how that affected the way wars are waged and empires built.
(3) Politics and organisation of ruling an empire when you have immortals with massive magical power at the top, but Bronze Age technology for transport, communication, and most other stuff.

Thanks for taking the time! Edicts are a nice touch, as for the rest unfortunately it seems we have different ideas about interesting power dynamics or about what bronze age technology is

 

[Trashos]

Thanks for the review, PJ!

I generally value combat very highly. In spite of this, 2 of my favorite RPGs happen to be PST and Arcanum, both of which dropped the ball with regards to combat. But they were so brilliant in other aspects, that they forced me to forgive their serious shortcomings.

Do you think that something similar can be said about Tyranny? Is it THAT good in what it does well? Did it give YOU the "here we have something really special" vibe? Your review overall made me think that it is not THAT level of special, but it is not very clear to me.

 

[agris]

Is it true there are are only a small handful of the same enemy NPCs that you fight over and over? Haven't read the review yet, but I remember this was a common criticism in the release thread.

 

[Grinolf]

lol, that's exactly the non-issue you're referring to.

1000 years of difference and complete disregard of what "medieval" means are pretty big issues. I don't see any reason why this phrase couldn't be changed on something like "both games aren't set in overrepresented in fantasy high and late medieval setting and instead preferred completely unexplored earlier time periods." That's probably what reviewer meant in the first place. Or it could be left as it is out of some stupid stubbornness, which could be also seen as a complete ignorance and make it look like everyone involved in writting this slept on history lessons.

 

[Whisper]

Is it true there are are only a small handful of the same enemy NPCs that you fight over and over? Haven't read the review yet, but I remember this was a common criticism in the release thread.

As "review" failed to mention: there are only human enemies (95% of time), golem/elemental enemies (4% of time) and wolf-men (1% of time).

So 95% of time you will battle same "2-3 fighter/1-2 archer/ 1-2 mage" groups, who are copy-pasted.



If you think that PoE overused some enemies like animals... here you will wish they added wolves or bears.

 

[Infinitron]

The rote combat is compounded by a lack of variety in enemies. In contrast to Pillars’ enormous bestiary, Tyranny only has three categories of enemies: humans, Beastmen (who fight more or less like humans), and wraith-like Banes. You will face more or less similar groups of tanks/damagers/ranged attackers/casters (when facing humans) and scrubs/bosses (when facing Banes).

 

[Whisper]

The rote combat is compounded by a lack of variety in enemies. In contrast to Pillars’ enormous bestiary, Tyranny only has three categories of enemies: humans, Beastmen (who fight more or less like humans), and wraith-like Banes. You will face more or less similar groups of tanks/damagers/ranged attackers/casters (when facing humans) and scrubs/bosses (when facing Banes). Some of the set-pieces – capturing a river crossing, village, or fort – are enjoyable enough, as pushing through a map to capture an objective gives the fights a sense of purpose and direction. Most, however, just have you doing the same thing over and over again. There are a few boss fights, but they are extremely formulaic; you will have to polish off a few waves of minions while avoiding the boss’s nastiest special attacks (helpfully broadcast in a tooltip over the boss), and then whittle away his massive mountain of hit points.

Beastsmen and Banes are like 5% fights max. 95% of fights are same human group with same "party composition", i cant think any game with worst diversity.


Also reply to "Lore/Athletics/Subterfuge" system that available to 1 character at start - you will pass ALL checks easily. All checks in dialogue and in events on map.

Also reply that in this game you cant join Kyros (choices?), and different between 4 paths (disf, chorus, anarch, rebels) is minimal. Same as in Bioware games.