Shogun: the only worthy Total War ?

[LizardWizard]

Also, play as the Crusader Kingdoms. Cool units from both Kingdom of Jerusalem and Principality of Antioch (from the expansion) on a Grand Campaign with mudslimes everywhere trying to murder you DED. Tons of fun.

That start plus the BGR submod which adds a supply system and some other CK-esque shit to generals can be sort of challenging for a total war game.

 

[Eyestabber]

That start plus the BGR submod which adds a supply system and some other CK-esque shit to generals can be sort of challenging for a total war game.

Gonna look that up, thanks.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

The campaign map was a mistake. The uniqueness of this game was its giant historical battles, not a crappy board game which turned 3d, with you slugging through 30 repetitions of the same fight and getting no feeling of historical accomplishment. If only they had dropped the civ like empire building part, which has always been bullshit in the historical setting, instead working on a proper pre battle context where you would be working diplomatically and maneuvering toward a few decisive battles, like Sekigahara. You could even have supply lines to take care of.

They didn't and now I see youtube videos where the tuber autoresolves all the battles. Really idiot, play civilization instead.

 

[Silva]

Yep, I said something similar on the Warhammer thread (see the "real war" idea). I don't think the fantasy mode the series went for is inherently crappy, specially as seen in the more simplist (but AI competent) iterations like Shog1&2 and Med1, but I definitely agree the core idea of tactical battle simulations would be more fitting to historical setups with focus on the tactical level and its immediate operational/logistical periphery.

 

[Silva]

(transcribing my last post that got buried in last pg)

Funny. I've heard a lot of people say this game is the least replayable in the series, but after trying a handful more games with different clans it seems each one is pretty distinct in playing style. E.g: Takeda and Date lean to direct blitzkrieg, Hattori is all about sabotage, ambushes and night attacks, Oda Nobunaga is a fucking Zerg-swarmer of doom (well, at least if you survive the first turns), and Ikko-Ikki is like that bitch Sister Miriam from SMAC only here they are actually better at religiously converting the shit out of your people and making revolts pop everywhere. Not only that, but each clan also incentives different routes through the tech tree and generals/agents skill tree, as it seems fairly advantageous to potentialize each clans particular strengths.

Frankly, this may sound absurd, but I played the hell out of Rome 1 both vanilla and modded, and I dont remember it having this much replayability and diversity in playstyle between factions. I remember the bigger difference was in the tactical level where some armies were hoplite-based and others infantry-based, but besides that it was mostly a matter of different colored units and buildings with slightly different bonus here and there. I really dont remember the strategic layer having this degree of nuance and distinction between factions playstyles that Shogun2 has. But then, perhaps my Im just too excited by the game right now and its clouding my perception. Time will tell, I think.


EDIT:
oh, and I've found two cool aesthetical mods that make the game even prettier. One is a events mini-mod for Fall of the Samurai that adds beautiful yet subtle new images to it. And the other is a "kabuki" portrait pack for the default/sengoku campaign (I was looking for some portraits in the style of KOEI games, but ended up stumbling with this one and liking it better). It's beautiful and I think it complements the original art of the game really well.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?565469-FOTS-Campaign-event-pictures-updated

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?490124-Kabuki-Portraits-Mod

(preview of the latter, as that thread pics vanished )

Spoiler

 

[spectre]

Funny. I've heard a lot of people say this game is the least replayable in the series, but after trying a handful more games with different clans it seems each one is pretty distinct in playing style.

^I think people get this impression after simply looking at the unit roster, not taking into account all the special abilities, access to resources and geography. Easy mistake to make when you try to learn about the factions
by firing up custom battles and checking what's to be had (I used to do this in every Total War and it made me ditch Alexander.... I still don't know if its actually any good).

Another thing is that the map of japan is pretty linear, most often you only get a few possible directions to expand, trying to get to the map edge at some point to avoid war on two fronts.

 

[Mr. Pink]

Shogun 2 is definitely the most "gamey" total war. Not having to consult unit cards because every unit did exactly what you expected them to do is quite nice (coming from someone who has to squint at the screen to compare stats between 40 variations of hoplitai in europa barbarorum). It's the only total war game that actually solved elite unit spam and had tier 1 peasants be worth recruiting lategame. I just wish I didn't have to play the game at half speed all the time, because everyone seems to be an olympic sprinter in sengoku japan.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Rome 2 is worse when it comes to speed because of the focus on cavalry. Also both Rome 2 and Shogun 2 have the spear wall/shield wall super micro charge abuse.

 

[Silva]

Another thing is that the map of japan is pretty linear, most often you only get a few possible directions to expand, trying to get to the map edge at some point to avoid war on two fronts.

True.

Shogun 2 is definitely the most "gamey" total war. Not having to consult unit cards because every unit did exactly what you expected them to do is quite nice (coming from someone who has to squint at the screen to compare stats between 40 variations of hoplitai in europa barbarorum). It's the only total war game that actually solved elite unit spam and had tier 1 peasants be worth recruiting lategame. I just wish I didn't have to play the game at half speed all the time, because everyone seems to be an olympic sprinter in sengoku japan.

Take a look at Darthmod, it slows the speed a bit.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

I made a meme you guys xDDDD

 

[Silva]

Stupid joke. You should feel bad.

Spoiler

Man, I must suck at this game. I managed to finish FOTS alright but the default Sengoku campaign is hard as hell. Got checkmated by the AI with Oda (twice), Hanzo (twice) and now with Uesugi.

I even went back to Normal difficulty. Shamefur dispray, I know.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

Try as Chosokabe, early game is much easier, although you might not get 25 provinces in time.

 

[Dead Guy]

Shimazu is really easy as well, easy to protect all them trade nodes behind Kyushu, pretty easy to secure all Kyushu and then a relatively comfortable 2-front advance along Honshu (ie one front on each side of the mountains).

 

[Jick Magger]

Plus if you've got the faction unit dlc, then you get the Shimazu heavy gunners late game, which are able to just tear through units like wet tissue paper.

 

[Trash]

The campaign map was a mistake. The uniqueness of this game was its giant historical battles, not a crappy board game which turned 3d, with you slugging through 30 repetitions of the same fight and getting no feeling of historical accomplishment. If only they had dropped the civ like empire building part, which has always been bullshit in the historical setting, instead working on a proper pre battle context where you would be working diplomatically and maneuvering toward a few decisive battles, like Sekigahara. You could even have supply lines to take care of.

They didn't and now I see youtube videos where the tuber autoresolves all the battles. Really idiot, play civilization instead.

They could've gone for a campaign map a la Ageod. Imagine Alea Jacta Est with TW battles (and graphics). Alas.

 

[Silva]

Just read that the Takeda series is more or less like that (linear story with decision pts, managing of each units captain, realistic battles, etc), except the last installment which went Total War path of (poor man) 4X.

Meanwhile, my Uesugi campaign had a surprising turn for better and for the first time Im optimistic for Realm Divide, as Im allied to the 3 strongest clans (and Darthmod guarantees they will stay like that after RD triggers, making the endgame effectively like FOTS). My only worry is time: Im at year 1762 and there is 11 provinces + Kyoto yet to conquer. So lets see.