Whiran
Magister
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2014
- Messages
- 641
Must we? Why?
The game isn't out yet. It cannot be profitable until release. Any and all funding should be going into development and not profits.
That statement makes me wonder.
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KickStarter Shroud of the Avatar - Lord British's Not-Ultima Online 2
- Thread starter Infinitron
- Start date
That statement makes me wonder.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 99,689
grimace
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2015
- Messages
- 2,088
Have you seen the add on store?
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=9085
What about stretch goals?
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=40715
The majority of these items are available to test in live pre-alpha now.
Extended Statistics page says:
Total Raised: $7,291,439
Raised through KS: $1,919,275
Raised through SotA: $5,372,164
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=35155
Only time will tell.
166,666 New Britannians ready to play the spiritual successor to the Ultima series.
For this reason alone Shroud of the Avatard should garner more discussion (and hate?) on the codex.
Whiran
Magister
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2014
- Messages
- 641
And?
That's funding for the game. That shouldn't be considered profit. If it is considered to be profit then I have serious questions about the legitimacy of this project being a development project to build a game as opposed to a fleece the fans of the Ultima series for as much as possible without caring about delivering a product.
This will be only a spiritual successor to ultima if it has a good single player story. by now, it just an ultima corporeal successor, it still has no soul/spirit.
m_s0
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2009
- Messages
- 1,292
Ouch.
Aenra
Guest
A lot more - and playable ones, not "visionary"- than McQuaid's cocaine dream hypothesis of a game.
Sorry, that's a low blow (lol), but i could not resist your fanboying. Do you still reply to people's commentary and criticism on Pantheon by saying "Brad said it, so it will be so" or have you matured past that? You lost me with page after page of typing and ultimately saying nothing at all.
Now that said, SotA will not going to be a game anyway near as large as the MMOs we liked and played back then. In fact, it will be pitifully claustrophobic. Unity. Ring a bell McQuaid fanboy? hmm?
And that at its end mind you. Only Episode One gets to soft-launch at the end of the year-ish. Four more TBA. They were viciously sly by their hyping, i mean co-developing an "offline mode". Theywill can ship a game about as a long as today's average single player games and call themselves true to their word ^^
Judged as an MMO that purports to cater to old school old farts like moi? SotA falls short.
- Its systems are either wonky, dated, or unable to benefit the game as a whole due to i) size, ii) lack of clear direction/gaming philosophy
- The majority of its 'core' players are way, way too ignorant and/or satisfied with an a-la Second Life in the Middle Ages dressing simulator
Judged as a single player game? N/A, don't give a shit.
Sorry, that's a low blow (lol), but i could not resist your fanboying. Do you still reply to people's commentary and criticism on Pantheon by saying "Brad said it, so it will be so" or have you matured past that? You lost me with page after page of typing and ultimately saying nothing at all.
Now that said, SotA will not going to be a game anyway near as large as the MMOs we liked and played back then. In fact, it will be pitifully claustrophobic. Unity. Ring a bell McQuaid fanboy? hmm?
And that at its end mind you. Only Episode One gets to soft-launch at the end of the year-ish. Four more TBA. They were viciously sly by their hyping, i mean co-developing an "offline mode". They
Judged as an MMO that purports to cater to old school old farts like moi? SotA falls short.
- Its systems are either wonky, dated, or unable to benefit the game as a whole due to i) size, ii) lack of clear direction/gaming philosophy
- The majority of its 'core' players are way, way too ignorant and/or satisfied with an a-la Second Life in the Middle Ages dressing simulator
Judged as a single player game? N/A, don't give a shit.
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I don't give a shit about multiplayer... So we're all fucked.
If you don't give a shit about multiplayer why the fuck are you looking at an MMO.
Well, the ks promissed an offline single player ultima sucessor kind of campaingn.
Xenich
Cipher
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2013
- Messages
- 2,104
Likely because most MMOs these days are just MSOs anyway.
grimace
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2015
- Messages
- 2,088
DarkStarr (Executive Producer) says in Release 22 Instructions:
"Release 22 feels like a turning point for us. We are starting to gain real momentum on being able to tell the story through new scenes added each release. This release in particular is important for the story because one of those new scenes is the Isle of Storms—our homage to the beloved starting experiences of Ultimas, where questions answered determine your starting path. We are also expanding the breadth of our sandbox experience with new ways for players to engage with the world (fishing) and each other (musical instruments and emote teaching). This expansion in two axes is exemplary of the kind of game we are trying to make, while at the same time very illustrative of how challenging it is to do so."
And single player storyline SPOILERS:
"Long ago, incredible magical forces crafted this island on shards of the shattered moons where it still floats high above New Britannia. Arabella greets new avatars coming from Earth and guides them with a series of questions that will determine which path they start down: Truth, Love, or Courage. These paths not only determine which plot thread you begin with, they also determine what your starting abilities are and what equipment you have."
And for PVP fans:
"The Oracle’s Price: PVP finally has some real risk! Dead players can be looted! Looted items include gruesome trophies (skulls, jawbones, etc.) and gear. Players will have an opportunity to pay a ransom to get their loot back."
You might enjoy this sexy bit:
Coconut Bra: Ever since we introduced the coconuts “mount” for our April Fool’s joke/not-a-joke, players have been asking “Why can’t I make a coconut bra out of them?” Well now you can.
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/release-22-instructions.37891/
Aenra
Guest
On a fresh note.. reading between the lines only confirms my fears, but will post it whole here for anyone else concerned to judge by themselves;
This is from a private conversation between myself and Starr Long, where i was 'voicing' my concerns regarding a lack of clear direction, a lack of pushing for a target audience, and/or financial ramifications thereof due to the above. His reply in full:
This "all-in-one" deal, it never ended well. He deviated from the issue, replied pretty much as you'd expect him to; he has an official function there, so ok. But the notion is still present, just left ultimately unanswered, as it was the consequences of this i highlighted in my question, not the way they are trying to sell it.
And equally obvious, point two being that UO (for whatever it had and/or lacked) really, really was a gankfestbox. Whether one liked that or not, different story. But it was definitely NOT the game where everyone could join and find themselves entertained. A game for "all" audiences my ass..
I find it troubling that all this time has passed, yet it's the very same old 'tales' being spun.. Still, props to him for at least engaging in such a conversation, am not exactly their warmer supporter, lol, so he could just as well have ignored me entirely. Thoughts your own.
This is from a private conversation between myself and Starr Long, where i was 'voicing' my concerns regarding a lack of clear direction, a lack of pushing for a target audience, and/or financial ramifications thereof due to the above. His reply in full:
This "all-in-one" deal, it never ended well. He deviated from the issue, replied pretty much as you'd expect him to; he has an official function there, so ok. But the notion is still present, just left ultimately unanswered, as it was the consequences of this i highlighted in my question, not the way they are trying to sell it.
And equally obvious, point two being that UO (for whatever it had and/or lacked) really, really was a gankfestbox. Whether one liked that or not, different story. But it was definitely NOT the game where everyone could join and find themselves entertained. A game for "all" audiences my ass..
I find it troubling that all this time has passed, yet it's the very same old 'tales' being spun.. Still, props to him for at least engaging in such a conversation, am not exactly their warmer supporter, lol, so he could just as well have ignored me entirely. Thoughts your own.
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Aenra
Guest
It's a B2P, only footnote being that since it's still in "early Alpha", if you purchase now you are allowed an early access of sorts.
("Alpha" in quotes and early access of sorts because -and people seem to forget this- what they are now is nothing like an alpha stage. At all. They have just branded it so in order to both minimise liability, and accrue profit sans consequences. Fact is they are well beyond a true alpha. I like SotA's potential, but truth be told)
Do however note that the lowest tier of said pricing model only includes the first episode, ie the one they will be launching with. There are (as of now) four more already planned for (and budgeted, so no chance of their not coming out). These you will either have to purchase separately in the future, or secure through an upgrading of your current financial tier. It can be quite tricky, as the milking is strong with this one. I'd advise you to have a thorough look in their FAQ page.
("Alpha" in quotes and early access of sorts because -and people seem to forget this- what they are now is nothing like an alpha stage. At all. They have just branded it so in order to both minimise liability, and accrue profit sans consequences. Fact is they are well beyond a true alpha. I like SotA's potential, but truth be told)
Do however note that the lowest tier of said pricing model only includes the first episode, ie the one they will be launching with. There are (as of now) four more already planned for (and budgeted, so no chance of their not coming out). These you will either have to purchase separately in the future, or secure through an upgrading of your current financial tier. It can be quite tricky, as the milking is strong with this one. I'd advise you to have a thorough look in their FAQ page.
Aenra
Guest
Further ammendments for the unwary:
(gameplay is a different matter, will refrain from posting impressions until it's launched)
1) Whether you areone of the many pathetic, ego-centric, shallow virtual bullies just dying to show your epeen off a PvP player, or someone that takes their PvE gearing/ home decorating/ crafting seriously because it's the journey and not the destination, ie you play it old school like we used to? And you better, for there's no rushing in SotA?
You will really really need to have purchased the three crafting tool sets (you will find me saying a few pages back that if one has patience, they are not a 'must'. Consider me re-educated, lol). Much for your convenience and sense of financial health, there are as mentioned three packs, entailing a matter of choice in regard to your purchases. Much to your disappointment, you really do need all three sets! And the House wins! Who'd have thought, lol
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=9085
At a whooping one time onleh, chance of a lifetime, yesiree, 135 bucks! Woohoo, i feel the Lord, donate now my brothah, let that love flow! Hallelujah!
(just scroll down until you see the 'tools of prosperity', it's a 50+50+35)
2) Although already mentioned, bears repeating, your housing is not permanent a situation. Yeap. There is a form of rent involved. Unless you want a clock alarm on your head be you in the game or at work, lifting of said responsibility comes at the overly generous price of 550 bucks! Lowest tier (Citizen) at which you build, and that's it. Done. Below that, you better organise. Housing is limited in SotA, you got no escrow. Someone will go and rent your land and then it's funtime all over again, and you better pray there's an empty slot somewhere just waiting for you, the special snowflake of this universe. And only you.
Your mileage will vary of course, but the above do sum up to a pleasant 685 bucks total. Smile like you mean it folks.
(exceptions apply if you are a Paulo Coelho fan or Lord British's best friend. With the universe on your side, who needs worrying)
(gameplay is a different matter, will refrain from posting impressions until it's launched)
1) Whether you are
You will really really need to have purchased the three crafting tool sets (you will find me saying a few pages back that if one has patience, they are not a 'must'. Consider me re-educated, lol). Much for your convenience and sense of financial health, there are as mentioned three packs, entailing a matter of choice in regard to your purchases. Much to your disappointment, you really do need all three sets! And the House wins! Who'd have thought, lol
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=9085
At a whooping one time onleh, chance of a lifetime, yesiree, 135 bucks! Woohoo, i feel the Lord, donate now my brothah, let that love flow! Hallelujah!
(just scroll down until you see the 'tools of prosperity', it's a 50+50+35)
2) Although already mentioned, bears repeating, your housing is not permanent a situation. Yeap. There is a form of rent involved. Unless you want a clock alarm on your head be you in the game or at work, lifting of said responsibility comes at the overly generous price of 550 bucks! Lowest tier (Citizen) at which you build, and that's it. Done. Below that, you better organise. Housing is limited in SotA, you got no escrow. Someone will go and rent your land and then it's funtime all over again, and you better pray there's an empty slot somewhere just waiting for you, the special snowflake of this universe. And only you.
Your mileage will vary of course, but the above do sum up to a pleasant 685 bucks total. Smile like you mean it folks.
(exceptions apply if you are a Paulo Coelho fan or Lord British's best friend. With the universe on your side, who needs worrying)
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Aenra
Guest
Seriously what the fuck moment... and here i was, blaming you Angthoron .. colour me erm, ammenable to re-evaluating my views, lol
Read the following, as posted in the SotA forums; and try and tell me (anyone) why it got me a moderator warning, a possible 'furthering' of my account for review higher up above, and a whole thread currently unreadable as it is "awaiting further moderation":
(i mean i am practically licking their balls, how much more polite need one be to fucking post there for fuck's sake)
(this is about the unfairness, i'd like to think, of the current housing lot selection process. Won't bore with details)
I am assuming nothing has really changed, and that plans as formed thus far entail more of the same old, ie first day after a wipe/first day of official launch, and everyone runs crazy/first come first served.
(if no longer the case, do please feel free to inform me?)
Personally speaking of course, i think we need to define this game aspect a bit further:
- saying "devs are busy" so they cannot organise it any better (i.e. it's up to us collectively), is insulting at best. This is a main feature of this game, and doubly so as it is additionally the main income generator for SotA. You pronounce one concept this heavily, i'd actually expect you to put some effort in not only creating it, but serving it too if you will. We pay not for content made. We pay for content served, made accessible due to our paying. 'It's out there and go eff yourself' does not exactly signify a stressing of this main feature's accessibility aspect.
- praising the 'good ole days' and 'quality above quantity' seems rather hollow when the above entails nothing but a "gogogogo" mentality best encountered ..elsewhere. Unless people running, skipping zones and focused on a 'me me me' mentality is something you'd describe otherwise?
- when something is defined (and planned as) a main feature of any a game, one expects some amount of thinking having gone over it. We pay people responsible, able and mentally fit to organise and bring to life a complex mechanism of many a part. That is definitely found lacking when the indirect reply appears to be "we did not think it through this much, nothing in the works yet, sorry"/ "but we are so busy!". No one expects it to be implemented this early. Someone however would expect it to have been a matter of some concern, and in due time!
(see towns and the 'instanced' fiasco. Two people paid the exact same amount, yet one we can see, the other is instanced)
- i will make some people uncomfortable but i believe it is evident one cannot dismiss it, this can also be interpreted as a purposeful omission. Purposeful as, combined with limiting/monetising housing, it allows for pushing people into parting with more money, it allows for an economy all the more directly (if not solely, see crafting as is) influenced by the store, rather than the ingame comings and goings of the players.
I proposed a few months back a very, very simple solution, namely that just a few weeks shy of the official launch of episode 1, the team here opens up a page where current RFs/Fs/BFs can login, see a list of the entirety of available slots (by then the team will have an exact number of Lots available per region), and "book" them online. According of course to each category's rights and purchases. Said page to be online well in advance, said page to be advertised well in advance, so that everyone is informed of it:
1) It's organised
2) It's fair(est). Knowing the game less, having less time, having your baby getting sick that very evening, will NOT result into your losing a Lot. A Lot you paid dearly for.
3) It promotes an image in line with a qualitative, mature-oriented title. No "gogogo-ing", no people rushing past everyone else without a word uttered, because 'house, lolol'
4) It still allows for as heavy-handed and unfair a monetary handling of this title as we have right now. No, no incentive to pay even more for SotA is lessened through this. Be it for the richest or poorest of your customers. One still has to pay, one still has to make further effort after paying. What was of increased value prior to this (ie limited), will remain so.
5) Content skipping is no longer indirectly endorsed. Which for a game like SotA, i would assume is a major plus.
6) Lack of ensuing complaints (which do tend to 'circulate'), drama, etc.
7) Pure benefit for everyone involved (minus those 5,6 few that just need that very anti-social streak of the 'first come first served' idea to feel good about themselves).
8) Excellent advertisement for the potential buyers. Just for this once in this game's history, advertise one thing where first come means not first served. One thing where a semblance of equal chances/rights is made concrete. If you think this is of minor import, merely peruse through Steam reviews/SotA forum posts and check how many people are worried due to this very concept. Or rather, lack of.
Thoughts dear Avatars?
(and again, if something has transpired in the meantime that i'm unaware of, do let me know, lol)
Read the following, as posted in the SotA forums; and try and tell me (anyone) why it got me a moderator warning, a possible 'furthering' of my account for review higher up above, and a whole thread currently unreadable as it is "awaiting further moderation":
(i mean i am practically licking their balls, how much more polite need one be to fucking post there for fuck's sake)
(this is about the unfairness, i'd like to think, of the current housing lot selection process. Won't bore with details)
I am assuming nothing has really changed, and that plans as formed thus far entail more of the same old, ie first day after a wipe/first day of official launch, and everyone runs crazy/first come first served.
(if no longer the case, do please feel free to inform me?)
Personally speaking of course, i think we need to define this game aspect a bit further:
- saying "devs are busy" so they cannot organise it any better (i.e. it's up to us collectively), is insulting at best. This is a main feature of this game, and doubly so as it is additionally the main income generator for SotA. You pronounce one concept this heavily, i'd actually expect you to put some effort in not only creating it, but serving it too if you will. We pay not for content made. We pay for content served, made accessible due to our paying. 'It's out there and go eff yourself' does not exactly signify a stressing of this main feature's accessibility aspect.
- praising the 'good ole days' and 'quality above quantity' seems rather hollow when the above entails nothing but a "gogogogo" mentality best encountered ..elsewhere. Unless people running, skipping zones and focused on a 'me me me' mentality is something you'd describe otherwise?
- when something is defined (and planned as) a main feature of any a game, one expects some amount of thinking having gone over it. We pay people responsible, able and mentally fit to organise and bring to life a complex mechanism of many a part. That is definitely found lacking when the indirect reply appears to be "we did not think it through this much, nothing in the works yet, sorry"/ "but we are so busy!". No one expects it to be implemented this early. Someone however would expect it to have been a matter of some concern, and in due time!
(see towns and the 'instanced' fiasco. Two people paid the exact same amount, yet one we can see, the other is instanced)
- i will make some people uncomfortable but i believe it is evident one cannot dismiss it, this can also be interpreted as a purposeful omission. Purposeful as, combined with limiting/monetising housing, it allows for pushing people into parting with more money, it allows for an economy all the more directly (if not solely, see crafting as is) influenced by the store, rather than the ingame comings and goings of the players.
I proposed a few months back a very, very simple solution, namely that just a few weeks shy of the official launch of episode 1, the team here opens up a page where current RFs/Fs/BFs can login, see a list of the entirety of available slots (by then the team will have an exact number of Lots available per region), and "book" them online. According of course to each category's rights and purchases. Said page to be online well in advance, said page to be advertised well in advance, so that everyone is informed of it:
1) It's organised
2) It's fair(est). Knowing the game less, having less time, having your baby getting sick that very evening, will NOT result into your losing a Lot. A Lot you paid dearly for.
3) It promotes an image in line with a qualitative, mature-oriented title. No "gogogo-ing", no people rushing past everyone else without a word uttered, because 'house, lolol'
4) It still allows for as heavy-handed and unfair a monetary handling of this title as we have right now. No, no incentive to pay even more for SotA is lessened through this. Be it for the richest or poorest of your customers. One still has to pay, one still has to make further effort after paying. What was of increased value prior to this (ie limited), will remain so.
5) Content skipping is no longer indirectly endorsed. Which for a game like SotA, i would assume is a major plus.
6) Lack of ensuing complaints (which do tend to 'circulate'), drama, etc.
7) Pure benefit for everyone involved (minus those 5,6 few that just need that very anti-social streak of the 'first come first served' idea to feel good about themselves).
8) Excellent advertisement for the potential buyers. Just for this once in this game's history, advertise one thing where first come means not first served. One thing where a semblance of equal chances/rights is made concrete. If you think this is of minor import, merely peruse through Steam reviews/SotA forum posts and check how many people are worried due to this very concept. Or rather, lack of.
Thoughts dear Avatars?
(and again, if something has transpired in the meantime that i'm unaware of, do let me know, lol)
Aenra
Guest
Yeah, just too fucking stubborn to give up without pinpointing them first. Little to no good as that may do, least i did something..
Roobenator
Novice
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2015
- Messages
- 48
Maybe we played a different game with UO and were expecting something different altogether. It just seems odd that you feel that UO was a "gankfest" and a failed game, yet waste your time with the spiritual successor. Perhaps I'm terribly wrong here with speedreading your text, sorry. All I know, is that I was about 12 years old when UO was at it's prime. It was also the only MMORPG I truly enjoyed, besides maybe a few weeks of SW Galaxies.Yeah, just too fucking stubborn to give up without pinpointing them first. Little to no good as that may do, least i did something..
Aenra
Guest
Failing even a reading comprehension check (and at a leisure in accordance with forum browsing) speaks a touch low about your person. However, since like most humanoids you will find yourself unwilling to even consider the veracity of my conclusion, let me help you by quoting the post you seem to have got a hard on for; am talking about UO here:
Does that seem to you as condemnation of a game, or as a statement regarding its target audience?
(unless you are paranoid enough to consider UO mainstream/a-game-for-all. In which case, please attempt killing yourself. We shall survive the loss, am sure) (won't even ask where you got the "failed" part)
To assist you further, in said same course of verification you shall never embark on, neither post was about praising or condeming UO. ALL posts have been about SotA's financial, let me help you, financial model. Even ingame aspects discussed by me are discussed in light of said financial model. The post you seem to have focused on only mentions UO since it is used by Darkstaar as a blanket statement to cover for legitimate issues in SotA. A game which by the way is almost entirely unlike UO. Please consider a lobotomy. And welcome to the Codex
Does that seem to you as condemnation of a game, or as a statement regarding its target audience?
(unless you are paranoid enough to consider UO mainstream/a-game-for-all. In which case, please attempt killing yourself. We shall survive the loss, am sure) (won't even ask where you got the "failed" part)
To assist you further, in said same course of verification you shall never embark on, neither post was about praising or condeming UO. ALL posts have been about SotA's financial, let me help you, financial model. Even ingame aspects discussed by me are discussed in light of said financial model. The post you seem to have focused on only mentions UO since it is used by Darkstaar as a blanket statement to cover for legitimate issues in SotA. A game which by the way is almost entirely unlike UO. Please consider a lobotomy. And welcome to the Codex
Angthoron
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2007
- Messages
- 13,056
Who summons me and why.
Oh.
Well I can always make posting in this thread premoderated too, if you like.
Aenra
Guest
^^
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