So how would you have made the last two Elder Scrolls games?

[Wyrmlord]

I was just playing Daggerfall, and I just can't help but keep thinking, "Damn, this game is fun." It's just so damn amazing.

Everything feels right in this game. A few blows is all that makes the difference between whether you or your enemy remains alive. The loot from enemies always lies within the range of slightly below average to slightly above average, enough for you to have something better to find, whilst having enough incentive to keep something that might get you a few more coins. And that is just enough money for you to save up until you blow it off on a horse or some other convenience.

The very idea of a game in which you descend into large complicated dungeons risking your neck at every corner just so you can get a little more money and just have a little better living - it's genius, really. And it's always enough to make you feel like it is worth it. For all that, whenever you find some magical item, like a Shortsword of Levitation, it feels like a huge permanent advantage, without making you feel like you have been handed an exploit, or some disposable item you can easily ignore.

So how would or should the last two ES games have been made? Well, I for one wouldn't change a single thing about the game's mechanics. Leave it as it is. However, it was unfortunate enough that Daggerfall reused Arena's music, so the game definitely needs a whole revamp in terms of music and soundsets. A change in technology would be welcome provided they do not require the mechanics to be changed. Though I think that it may well be better to have better drawn sprites than simply go for second rate ugly 3D models.

One thing I would definitely do is build twisting, dense, and complicated cities, which are meant for you to use wall climbing and jumping to get from one place to another. Like those cities we see in Alladin. Seriously, why did they have to remove wall climbing? A reasonable feature that no one ever would object to. And you would think that mainstream games would hold the vanguard in pushing technology. Yet, we saw the removal of wall climbing and jumping through city rooftops, reducing the whole city to nothing more than unusable props. Even though an older game had the decency to implement such a thing with less technology.

 

[spacemoose]

morrowind:

* add party npcs
* flesh out npcs
* dialogue trees
* dungeons with histories/purposes, not just bandit cave #34
* turn based combat system with terrain divided into hexes
* overhaul magic system completely so that magic is costly, time consuming, and very powerful. almost quest-level. so that there are no artillery-mages

I wouldn't make oblivion

 

[Wyrmlord]

Here's one thing about Oblivion. The Imperial Province seems to be the most tame part of Tamriel. Nords are not hunting animals in harsh winter lands. They are baking in sunny places, doing menial work for a living. Redguards are not warriors in the desert. They wear fancy tunics and attend parties. The whole place is just too simple and civilized.

It also really would have been much better if the latter games continued the same plotline from the first two games. The Champion of the Emperor, who rescued him from Jagar Tharn's grasp, and then banished the ghost of his old friend now returns to him again as an accomplished hero. Perhaps now, he could be a lord of rank, and can now start building his own keep, by exploring all over Tamriel and recruiting people. It could have the same nonlinear main quest structure of Daggerfall, again about traversing several provinces, investigating into certain matters or political conspiracies.

But most of all, there were never any furries in Elder Scrolls. Khajits were not cat people. They were humans with mutations. The most needed thing for the later ES games is a de-furrification.

 

[Hobo Elf]

For Morrowind:
C&C and multiple endings. If you read the lore books in Morrowind, you start realising that there are several legends about you, Dagoth Ur and the other gods. In some legends, Dagoth betrays you. In some legends, it's the other gods. I'd lke to have a choice with whom I ally with. Or go against all of them as punishment for their insolence.

 

[Fat Dragon]

Morrowind is pretty damn good as it is, it only needed more branching quests.

Haven't bothered playing more than a few hours of Oblivion so I'm not really certain of what it does right and wrong.

 

[JarlFrank]

Here's one thing about Oblivion. The Imperial Province seems to be the most tame part of Tamriel. Nords are not hunting animals in harsh winter lands. They are baking in sunny places, doing menial work for a living. Redguards are not warriors in the desert. They wear fancy tunics and attend parties. The whole place is just too simple and civilized.

No. No, it's not. It was originally supposed to be a wild jungle instead of cookie cutter medieval fantasy land.

That's how I would do Oblivion. And I'd make some of the combat options make more sense. You take damage while blocking? The fuck? Much rather make your shield take more damage and make it breakable. Then, of course, away with the horrendous level scaling system! Larger dungeons, adding levitation and climbing back to the game. More interesting items to find. The level scaling ruined the game. All in all, Oblivion, if I made it, would've been a combination of the best from Morrowind with the best from Daggerfall. As it is now, it's a combination of the worst features from both.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Morrowind: Choices and consequences, and alternate endings. Also a better combat system. Besides that, nothing. It's an incredible game.

Oblivion: I don't know where to start. Keep all the skills from Morrowind, dumb nothing down. Completely change the plotline. Keep Cyrodiil more faithful to the lore (it would be more interesting too, in the lore Cyrodiil is mostly tropical jungle with several tribes - that would be so much better than rustic medieval villages and forests). Get rid of fast travel and pop-ups.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Morrowind is pretty damn good as it is, it only needed more branching quests.

Haven't bothered playing more than a few hours of Oblivion so I'm not really certain of what it does right and wrong.

In the reasonable amount of time I spent on Oblivion, I just spent some time having a little fun as stealthy marksman firing arrows while hiding in the darkness for Sneak Attacks. Apart from the Dark Brotherhood and the Thieves' Guild quest.

But even for going around in dungeons and killing things, there are a few things that bring even those simple joys down. Stealth in this game had terrible implementation, despite the input of a guy who worked on Thief. Even if you get spotted briefly, you can never be unseen, because your position will be known wherever you go. And once your Sneak Attack kill on one person is completed, the rest will know where you are.

For even fighting and killing things, you will not find much variety in the enemies you face. Because of the said level scaling, you will only have a limited set of homogenous enemies throughout the world. To the point that it gets quickly stale to go around fighting them. And at higher levels, simple enemies are too much of a timesink to kill.

Believe me, these are the only things Oblivion needs to take care of, and I would be able to enjoy it longer, everything else be damned. Fun combat is all I need.

Daggerfall's level scaling made sense. There were a variety of difficulty and easy enemies in one dungeon for each difficulty level. And only just enough parity between you and enemies for fights to still be short, quick, and challenging. And even with level scaling, a very high meelee attack skill would mean that you could still kill people in one blow.

 

[kingcomrade]

turn based isometric choices consequences good writing space marines

 

[JarlFrank]

Wyrmlord, you should get the POOP modpack for Oblivion. Makes it a lot more fun. And search for some better sneaking mod, I think it's called "Attack and Hide" and does exactly what the title describes: you can attack and then try to hide. And while some of the mods included in POOP fix the horrible level scaling, it's still not a perfect game. Most characters are just too stupid and the voice acting still sucks.

 

[Andhaira]

Arena was a great game. A real revolution in m any regards. Dagger fall was unpolished and rough, but ok. Could have been better though. Morrowind took the best things of both and presented it into a polished package. It did nothing new, and was same old same old, but the package was quite polished. Combat sucked though.

Oblivion was raped by level scaling and beth will be feeling the pain in their next elder scrol game as sales will fall.

Bethesda are working on the same principal as Jeff Vogel: if it aint broken, don't fix it. Exceptthey did try to introduce lvl scaling (a STUPID concept) and it blew up in their faces.

 

[Tails]

I was just playing Daggerfall, and I just can't help but keep thinking, "Damn, this game is fun." It's just so damn amazing.

I started playing yesterday and have the same feeling. Daggerfall has great atmosphere - like, I get to town at night and some ghost was charging at me so I had to climb on city walls to survive. Stuff repair takes days not "sec" like in Morr/Obl. Towns are Towns, lot's of people and buildings, also the dungeons are challenging. Player avatar looks great (especially sexy females) - My current char:

Really, Daggerfall devs had skill. Current Bethesda staff is like bunch of newbies trying to make good/great games, without any success.

Still, there are few flaws that should be changed..
* Didn't like that "kill vermin's in house" quests. Some houses have about three rooms, so player have to walk around and "wait" for rats/bat/whatever to spawn. If player leaves house or enter other building those vermin's will spawn outside/in current building.
*Music should be changed. I didn't mind track in first Dungeon but after hearing one in temple made me quit game and turn music off. Horrible midi...
*Folks in town - I didn't see any other race then Bretons/Imperial etc. on streets. Once there was a Redguard in shop and that's all.
*Too bad that it's not possible to kill npcs in houses (well except quest related), like in Morrowind. And that's all for now...

About Morrowind/Oblivion - Should be like Daggerfall, just better.

Btw. A must see project: DungeonHack - it's a open-source project to create a large scale, open-ended role-playing game "forged in the Spirit of Daggerfall".

 

[Wyrmlord]

To all those guys, talking about dialogue, NPCs, and turn-based combat in Elder Scrolls, sheesh.

I mean, you don't go to an Italian restaurant and ask for Chinese.

Realistically speaking, I was just asking about the changes within the same groundwork of the series and the genre. How would you make it a better first-person action RPG?

 

[Kingston]

Daggerfall is an awesome game.

If I made Morrowind and Oblivion I'd just make them remakes of Daggerfall with added content.

 

[JarlFrank]

Actually, a game with Daggerfall's gameplay and Morrowind's rich exotic lore would be a perfect Elder Scrolls game.

 

[Luzur]

But most of all, there were never any furries in Elder Scrolls. Khajits were not cat people. They were humans with mutations. The most needed thing for the later ES games is a de-furrification.

actually, the Khajiit was on lore since Daggerfall, the ones you saw in Arena and Daggerfall where one of the more human ones, the Khjaiit race range from smart speaking housecats, big smart tiger mounts (battlecats) to humans with a tail, since their births are controlled by the moons or something. (read it in a book ingame)

Morrowind is good as it is, tweak the combat and add some more land to explore (the mainland perhaps?)

Oblivion...remake the whole game, bigger landmass, add the lore jungle, flesh out the NPC ALOT, political intrigue, bigger Imperial Capitol, different Oblivion planes (fiery hell has been done SO much now.) etc etc.

Actually, a game with Daggerfall's gameplay and Morrowind's rich exotic lore would be a perfect Elder Scrolls game.

Oblivion = this.

 

[lightbane]

I think everyone of you forgot an important detail (specially for Oblivion): NO FUCKING MASS HORDE OF PSYCHIC GUARDS!!!

 

[mondblut]

I'd just take Daggerfall as a base and go detailing it in depth.

 

[Wyrmlord]

I'd just take Daggerfall as a base and go detailing it in depth.

That's all anyone ever needed to do. At all.

Actually, there is no need to understate it. Daggerfall is perfect. Absolutely perfect. There has never been a boring moment while playing Daggerfall.

With Arena, yes, but that's probably because finding anything to do in that game is not as easy as it is in Daggerfall. Just ask a few commoners if there are any jobs to do, and you are off.

 

[JarlFrank]

Actually, a game with Daggerfall's gameplay and Morrowind's rich exotic lore would be a perfect Elder Scrolls game.

Oblivion = this.

lolwut?
Oblivion is neither as complex as Daggerfall, nor does it have Morrowind's deep lore.

 

[Luzur]

Actually, a game with Daggerfall's gameplay and Morrowind's rich exotic lore would be a perfect Elder Scrolls game.

Oblivion = this.

lolwut?
Oblivion is neither as complex as Daggerfall, nor does it have Morrowind's deep lore.

Oblivion...remake the whole game, bigger landmass, add the lore jungle, flesh out the NPC ALOT, political intrigue, bigger Imperial Capitol, different Oblivion planes (fiery hell has been done SO much now.) etc etc.

Actually, a game with Daggerfall's gameplay and Morrowind's rich exotic lore would be a perfect Elder Scrolls game.

Oblivion = this.

but i see i worded it wrong it should have been more like "Oblivion could have been this"

 

[MetalCraze]

Both last two Elder Scrolls after Morrowind weren't worth making.

 

[St. Toxic]

I'd build a death-camp, and try it out on the Beth-crew. Then we start with the jews. B)

 

[racofer]

So how would you have made the last two Elder Scrolls games?

I would disguise the Fallout1/2 game files into the cds, tamper the installer, change the title screen to "Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, a post nuclear role playing game., and call it a day.

 

[Forest Dweller]

So what does everyone think of Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul?

I thought it was a significant improvement.