So, trolling aside..

[Volourn]

"stands Action-RPG on the box of Diablo 2 (which voulourn also objects to) ."

Your defintion of Action RPG seems to be a agme that is all about combat nad has no actual role-playing in it. That's why you used games like FOBOS, and Diablo as your examples. That's retarded.

JE, like BL, is another game that combines real time combat where player skill matters but also has everything that a rpg does - actual dialolgue, choices that effect the game world, skills, etc., etc., and guess what the 'experts' label it Action RPG.

Face it, the experts don't really know what the different labels mean.

Both BL and JE are set up basically the same way yet youa re trying tco claim one is a full fledge RPG; but the other is all because of some so called 'experts'?

R00fles!

BL is an Action RPG. That's not an attack on the game. that's a fact.

Period.

 

[sportforredneck]

How long back in time do you want to go?

From what I've seen many people here include "choices and consequences" in how they define RPG, something that didn't happen to often in the past, games evolve and change and thus so do definitions and how things are. So get over yourself.

The question is where do you draw a line for action-rpg's then? Why can't you simply call Real-Time RPGs for what they are...normal RPGs in real time?

Why are there labels at all? To allow you to understand the product, basically.

But I simply won't agree on that it's an action-rpg cause it's in fucking real-time. Makes no sense. Of to bed now.

Real-time combat is only one part of it, there's other things that make an action RPG.

 

[The Dude]

Coming back to the OP, it would be pretty neat if some of our east european friends could tell us a bit about what's hot and cooking over there. Sure, many of those games turns out to be crap, but so is pretty much the whole market for western CRPGs.

 

[JarlFrank]

Easy. Player *physical* skill* largely detemerines character success in combat.

The only problem is that the combat system of Bloodlines also largely depends on skills. You got sucky skills, you will suck at combat, no matter how much of a crack you are in any shooter or thrid person fighting game.

Game over, man, game over.

 

[A_Leftist_Pig?]

Volourn listen to yourself. The experts who make the games and who review them are wrong but you are right. I rest my case.

 

[Ladonna]

Stop.Arguing.With.Volourn.

You will get nowhere.

However, you might get somewhere if you said:

'Volourn. What spacetrip did you go on to find out that ME would be the best roleplaying game Bio has ever made?'

His answer to this will be interesting. His love affair with bio knows no bounds. I still remember his little sig at the TOEE forums 'Bioware Fanboy' (Or something like that).

Now he will turn about and say 'R00FLEs!!! I sadi taht KOTOR SUCKED SUCKA!!!'.

 

[Volourn]

"The only problem is that the combat system of Bloodlines also largely depends on skills. You got sucky skills, you will suck at combat, no matter how much of a crack you are in any shooter or thrid person fighting game."

Nope. Not really. You could have a character wither ather shitty skills in BL, and still kick ass in combat just fine. Like JE, in BL, player skill can easily overcome a alck of character skill in combat.

The fact that character skill does play some part is what makes it a RPG. An Action RPG.

 

[sportforredneck]

Like JE, in BL, player skill can easily overcome a alck of character skill in combat.

It just takes more time to kill the things.

 

[The Dude]

So how would one categorize some of the old school CRPGs that are full of devious riddles and puzzles that rely a lot on the cerebral skills of the player? Puzzle-RPG?

 

[MacBone]

Not that arguing from Google proves anything, but check these Google searches out.

Results 1 - 10 of about 51,700 for Bloodlines "action RPG".
Results 1 - 10 of about 302 for Bloodlines "realtime RPG".
Results 1 - 10 of about 246 for Bloodlines "real time RPG".
Results 1 - 10 of about 246 for Bloodlines "real-time RPG".

 

[Ladonna]

So how would one categorize some of the old school CRPGs that are full of devious riddles and puzzles that rely a lot on the cerebral skills of the player? Puzzle-RPG?

An excellent point. Not so much for name but for what you said about player skill.

A lot of us look at combat and say 'Oh, it uses player skill instead of your characters skill' etc. Therefore not roleplaying.

However, unless you have a system in place where you have the right stats and therefore get the answer correct straight away (Which seems somewhat boring) then it turns into the game asking the player directly for the answer to a riddle. Character becomes waiting corpse and that player has to use their own 'stats'.

Hmm

 

[A_Leftist_Pig?]

Now lets have my little search here:

Resultat 1 - 10 av ungefär 394 000 vid sökning efter Bloodlines RPG.
Resultat 1 - 10 av ungefär 1 380 vid sökning efter "Bloodlines RPG".
Resultat 1 - 5 av 5 vid sökning efter "Bloodlines action RPG".
Resultat 1 - 5 av 5 vid sökning efter "Bloodlines action-RPG
Din sökning - "Bloodlines actionRPG" - matchade inte något dokument. (Matched nothing)

The Difference between:
Resultat 1 - 10 av ungefär 199 000 vid sökning efter Bloodlines action RPG

Resultat 1 - 10 av ungefär 127 000 vid sökning efter Bloodlines Real time RPG

Is also quite small. Obviously people don't always say "BL Is a Real time RPG" they might say things such as BL is considered a RPG in real time" or something. Anyway it just shows how wrong Action-RPG is compared to simply RPG and how quite similar Real-Time RPG is compared to Action RPG.




So as we can see, almost 400 000 people call it a RPG out of those 50 000 also add Action RPG.
When searching for the exact line of words including both BL, Action and/or RPG the difference is amazing and my number one choice wins long past yours.



Which is what I want to call it. Simply RPG.
I'm just saying that if he must call it something ellse he should call it for what it is. A Real Time RPG.

 

[sportforredneck]

So as we can see, almost 400 000 people call it a RPG out of those 50 000 also add Action RPG.

Wait you mean people actually use the broad term to describe something? Holy shit!

Look at my research:

2,230,000 for final fantasy rpg.

137,000 for final fantasy jrpg.

People know that Final Fantasy is a JRPG game, yet more for RPG pop up. How about that then?

 

[A_Leftist_Pig?]

Why do I get bashed when I didn't come up with the whole Google Search part? -g-

Besides Final Fantasy is a RPG not a JRPG. The definition of JRPG is dumb. So just since it comes from Japan it is a Japanese-Roleplaying game? If anything you could label games ARPG as in Anime RPG but not fucking japanese. Do you expect all games and movies to include their nation of origin now?


God your dumb! You retarded fucktard with a big lack of braincells. Stop posting bullshit.


Second EDIT: If you are refearing to a CRPG then that isn't the point. It has shit to do with anything discussed in this thread. a CRPG can be an action-rpg, a rpg, a fucking chicken simulation/rpg. And nobody uses the word JRPG anymore anyway.

 

[sportforredneck]

Why do I get bashed when I didn't come up with the whole Google Search part? -g-

Because you're the most obvious idiot.

Besides Final Fantasy is a RPG not a JRPG.

Is that like every game is an RPG because you play a role? I'M MASTUR CHIEF THATS A ROLE SO ITS AN RPG!

The definition of JRPG is dumb. So just since it comes from Japan it is a Japanese-Roleplaying game?

No, because it's from Japan it's shit. There's a difference.

Do you expect all games and movies to include their nation of origin now?

No, but when people hear JRPG, they automatically know on-rails furry and "trap"-fest. And that the game is idiotic and nonsensical. With RPG, people would get the wrong idea.

God your dumb! You retarded fucktard with a big lack of braincells. Stop posting bullshit.

Once again with the tourettes? Fuck, shit, dumbass, jew!

 

[Section8]

Volourn listen to yourself. The experts who make the games and who review them are wrong but you are right. I rest my case.

Actually, Volourn speaks more wisdom than a lot of "experts" who make games, and more truths than the entire fraternity of "experts" who "review" them.

:honourblade:

 

[MacBone]

Why didn't I get bashed when I did come up with the whole Google Search part? -g-

Besides Star Wars is a movie not a science-fantasy movie. The definition of science-fantasy is dumb. So just since it comes from Skywalker Ranch it is a science-fantasy movie? If anything you could label movies Jedi as in Jedi movies but not fucking science-fantasy. Do you expect all games and movies to include their nation of origin now?


All you smart guys, your dumb! You retarded fucktard with a big lack of braincells. Stop posting bullshit.


Second EDIT: If you are refearing to a scifi movie then that isn't the point. It has shit to do with anything discussed in this thread. a scifi movie can be an action-scifi, a scifi, a fucking chicken simulation/scifi. And nobody uses the word science-fantasy anymore anyway.

 

[JarlFrank]

Besides Final Fantasy is a RPG not a JRPG. The definition of JRPG is dumb.

The definition of JRPG is the definition of the whole genre of Eastern RPGs, which usually have differences compared to European and American RPGs. It's as much a genre classification as the terms Action RPG, Party Based RPG or First Person RPG.

The difference between JRPG and [western] RPG is as big a difference as the difference between a Strategy and a Tactics game. Both are similar, but both have differences.

 

[Ahzaruuk]

All articles on Wikipedia and all PC reviews in magazines have agreed with me. I don't give a shit about your opinion. Espesually when you and she can't back it up with facts while I can.

I think that's going into my Signature.

 

[A_Leftist_Pig?]

I don't get you guys. Some of you say that they can't trust experts (Those who make and those who review games as their living) and then you also say we can't trust the biggest open source community in the world.


So all we can trust is the holy grail...the RPG Codex! Aye.

 

[The Dude]

I will be nice and offer an explanation.

Just as when it comes to music, movies, art or whatever other form of entertainment or art, most things that can be said about games are subjective. In short, there are no easy truths, and no "experts" to trust.

Secondly, even though open source is a nice idea, it is not the best way to make authorative statements of facts. Since anyone can change stuff in any way they want, the credentials for any wikipedia article is heavily questionable, especially when the facts are discussable and not set in stone.

And about the Codex, there is no hivemind, but at least there is a shadow of a conscencus when it comes to many things CRPG. Numerous interesting discussions have been held here through the years, and I (and probably many of the other posters and lurkers) value the opinions of the Codex infinitely more than the opinions of the "experts" as you call them. You just have to wade through mounds of juvenile shit to find those opinions lately.

Anyway, read this, I promise it would do you a world of good for your continued stay here.

Of course, all this is just IMHO and POV and whatever, just a guys two cents.

 

[MacBone]

I don't get you guys. Some of you say that they can't trust experts (Those who make and those who review games as their living) and then you also say we can't trust the biggest open source community in the world.


So all we can trust is the holy grail...the RPG Codex! Aye.

ALP - arguing from an authority is the weakest argument one can make. Instead of relying on what reviewers, PR people, Wikipedia, or the dictionary says, rely on reason and clear thinking to make your point.

And don't take yourself so seriously, mon frère.

 

[A_Leftist_Pig?]

-g- Thanks. Though I simply didn't like what ever "mind" - set there was here. Reading the forum I laughed, writting here just made sad to be honest, felt as a waste of time and space. Espesually when the admin ( what ever differences in opinion we have ) couldn't do his job as an admin and transfer the discussion into a new thread after I had said sorry to you for being off topic. Just kept on posting there.

Don't know what POV means but the sad thing is that few except you actually think it's their humble opinion. They belive it's obvious fact no matter what bullshit they later bring up about that its just a joke or act (for the most part). I started out here not trying to impose my opinions on anyone but ended up trying to impose them on everyone which even though it's just a lousy old forum made me disapointed on my self.

Not to mention that when I for the first time in a long long time checked the General Board (for which I also registered, to reply there) instead of just checking the RPG boards as I used to I found to my disgust a post totaly humiliating the workingclass person. Being so rude and so hurtfull that the folks who actually were members of that class or even more specificly in the food-service part of it got hurt and it showed in their replies.

And that, my first, most serious and most well written reply I ever made here was never responded to. The most idiotic and stupid things I said were replied to in masses.


So thanks for your two cents but keep them to yourself, they'll do you more good than me who now leaves.

 

[The Dude]

Teh Drama!

Obviously this place isn't for you. If your feelings are hurt through discussing politics and CRPGs on a forum I'm not sure the bloody internet is for you.

 

[Volourn]

"All you smart guys, your dumb!"

Hilarity ensues!