Spec Ops: The Line - Heart of Darkness with guns

[Metro]

I do hope the irony was on purpose.

There would have to be irony in the first place, and there wasn't.

You're the one being intentionally vague here. Do you really think a few stat-checks elevate Torment to brilliance and the lack of them damns Spec Ops? In that case, your adherence to the labels which you refuse is more pronouced than I thought. Otherwise the burden of proof is on you to tell us exactly which gameplay elements "saves" Torment. Personally, I just like the RPG elements more than the cover shooting. But that's still personal preference.

If you're unwilling to concede there is a difference between a first person shooter and a role playing game then there's really nothing more I can say.

 

[Dexter]

This is what I don't understand. We're on a video game forum and -- for the most part -- discuss video games. If you're willing to concede it's a poor 'game' or not a 'game' at all then why even bother discussing anything else? Stick the Spec Ops topic on GD and talk about it like you would The Hobbit or Breaking Bad or any other movie or television series. As a game I think Spec Ops has little to no merit at all. As something else... I couldn't care less where its merit ranks.

Because it is a game and succeeds (and is praised) mostly for what it does as a game.

Being interactive and putting the player into the perspective of the protagonist, giving him various choices throughout the game that are often even represented through gameplay alone e.g. shooting someone that is talking to you or letting him go, killing a bunch of civilians or shooting in the air making them flee in terror instead of multi-choice dialogue options.

When presented with a choice to choose between two people hanging from a pole there's at least ~5 slightly different outcomes from what the player does. There's also ~4-5 different endings players can get.

A lot of what Spec Ops is doing and trying to do wouldn't work great in any other medium where the viewer is inherently detached from what is going on on the screen and can't look and walk around freely.

To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if you even played it at all or are just discussing on the basis/notion of "D'uh, console shooter! It's gotta be shit!".

Especially since you apparently "don't see any difference" between it and most MMS like Medal of Honor, Call of Duty, Battlefield: Bad Company/Battlefield 3 etc.

Comparing games to books or movies is retarded. They're completely different mediums with different rules, trying to do and evoke different things in people and with often formulaic lenghts (for instance movies often not being much longer than 1 1/2 hours).

 

[Metro]

 

[Dexter]

That's exactly what it doesn't do, all potential choices are most of the time smoothly embedded in the gameplay itself and will often not even be obvious.
As LundB also said there's not that many cutscenes and you can even preface a lot of them by just shooting people prematurely.

 

[RK47]

 

[Metro]

That's exactly what it doesn't do, all potential choices are most of the time smoothly embedded in the gameplay itself and will often not even be obvious.
As LundB also said there's not that many cutscenes and you can even preface a lot of them by just shooting people prematurely.

C&C and resulting cutscenes as subtle as in Witcher. But hey, people herald that as one of the top RPGs of all time here.

 

[villain of the story]

I haven't played this game and I have no idea about it but it seems to be the kind of game that leaves a lot of Codexers butthurt4life.

 

[Metro]

4 lyf.

 

[Angthoron]

To be more in-line with the game (I guess): Butt-shocked.

 

[RK47]

I haven't played this game and I have no idea about it but it seems to be the kind of game that leaves a lot of Codexers butthurt4life.

It's not simple.
It's like Torment, in FPS format.
I'm looking forward to LP-ing this baby when my favorite retailer finish delivering it to my desktop.

 

[buzz]

snip

This is what I'm talking about. War is teh bad, you are the demons john, this game has them all.
Did you like the part when Konrad talks directly to the gamers? YOU COULD'VE STOPPED FROM KILLING ALL THOSE PIXELS BRO
edit: Personally I think that Planescape Torment is pretty much the most overrated game in the RPG fanbase for similar reasons, even though the game is much more solid in writing and mechanics that facilitate the story than this POS. Never understood though why would PT trump people's lists, going over stuff like Arcanum or Jagged Alliace 2. I mean, does anyone disagree that Planescape Torment would have been better as an adventure game with C&C?

 

[Angthoron]

Oh, you mean that Arcanum with combat that trumps Obsidian's camera in awkwardness and has graphics from mid-nineties? I don't think there's anyone that would disagree that it should've been a text adventure.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

I wanted to get it because of art direction, but then saw that it's a cover based shooter. How bad does the gunplay suffer?

 

[Grunker]

I do hope the irony was on purpose.

There would have to be irony in the first place, and there wasn't.

You're the one being intentionally vague here. Do you really think a few stat-checks elevate Torment to brilliance and the lack of them damns Spec Ops? In that case, your adherence to the labels which you refuse is more pronouced than I thought. Otherwise the burden of proof is on you to tell us exactly which gameplay elements "saves" Torment. Personally, I just like the RPG elements more than the cover shooting. But that's still personal preference.

If you're unwilling to concede there is a difference between a first person shooter and a role playing game then there's really nothing more I can say.

Really? Wow.

 

[Metro]

 

[J_C]

Spec Ops is Yahtzee's game of the year, this means it is a great game.

Anyway, it is unfair to say that the game is shit because the gameplay is bad. The gameplay is not bad, it is an avearge shooter. Someone said above that this is the PST of shooters. Although it is a bit of a stretch, it is something like that.
PST: good story + average RPG elements
Spec Ops: good story + average shooter elements.

You can say that "but PST had dialogue choices and stat checks", but you can't expect those from Spec Ops, since it is not an RPG, but a shooter. Not a hybrid shooter RPG, but a pure shooter.

 

[buzz]

Depends what counts as average, I guess. For me, Spec Ops felt bad even by cowadoody standards (which I already find sub-par compared to shooters of over 2 decades)

 

[LundB]

Anyway, it is unfair to say that the game is shit because the gameplay is bad.

I know it's unfair to take sentences out of context, but this line is too funny not to quote.

The gameplay is not bad, it is an avearge shooter. Someone said above that this is the PST of shooters. Although it is a bit of a stretch, it is something like that.
PST: good story + average RPG elements
Spec Ops: good story + average shooter elements.

This is where we disagree. The gameplay is NOT average. At this point it's expected that a third person popamoler at least encourage the player to move around reasonably often instead of hiding behind the same chest high wall shooting enemies for the duration of a firefight. A genuinely GOOD one would require regular movement, minimizing the time you spend sticking to a single wall and reducing the similarity to a game of whack-a-mole. A good tps would also have better enemy variation than you find in Spec Ops. Spec Ops does none of this, and is therefore poor even by third person cover shooter standards.

I'm not one to say something has a 'good story for a game', it's ridiculous to set the bar that low. So what I see is:
PST: good (though not on the level of true greats) story + average gameplay (could be considered below average depending on how much you feel the poor combat elements drag it down).
Spec Ops: mediocre at best story + poor gameplay (The bad combat is all there is to the game).

 

[Darklife]

Just out of curiosity LundB. What difficulty did you play the game on?

 

[LundB]

Just out of curiosity LundB. What difficulty did you play the game on?

The second highest, since the absolute highest is locked out until your 2nd playthrough. I'll admit I did switch down for one portion towards the end, where you take off in the heli and circle around the pool, since I had been getting murdered by a machine gun turret that turned out to be immortal unless you shot at the tv above it instead. I kept it down for the remainder of the game, since I was near the end and by that point, I just wanted to get it over with. The game doesn't encourage mobile non-'shooting gallery' play on any setting, and on the higher difficulty it actively discourages anything but hiding behind the same piece of cover until no more enemies are in view.

 

[Darklife]

I played at the same difficulty level (although I did keep it up there until the end ) and I couldn't really get by with just hugging the same chunk of concrete throughout entire firefights. Enemies were always trying to flush me out, either by bum rushing me or simply flooding my position with grenades. That was especially true for the part where you have to defend the black guy.

 

[Grunker]

same piece of cover

Now I know you haven't played the game. The gameplay is pretty crappy, I agree, but this is impossible. Heavies walk around your cover, grenades are constantly being thrown, knife-dudes run up to you. Even if you killed Heavies and Knife-dudes, the amount of grenades in this game is hilarious.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Spec ops had shit gameplay and an average story.

There, i've just broken your autistic, endlessly argumentative feedback loop...move on with your lives. I refuse to let torment be dragged into this nonsense any further.

 

[Grunker]

 

[MetalCraze]

Anyway, it is unfair to say that the game is shit because the gameplay is bad.

Yep. Who cares about that stupid thing called gameplay in a game.

The gameplay is not bad, it is an avearge shooter

Average for a retard like you, who plays games only for 3 years and refuses to acknowledge any other genre but cover-based popamole - perhaps.

Oh shit it's a generic popamole shooter where you kill AMERICANS. ZOMG it's so DEEP. It's totally not a ripoff of 28 Days Later / Avatard and even MW2. Your own are the true enemy! Best plot ever, not seen in every 2nd hollywood fodder.

Now I know you haven't played the game. The gameplay is pretty crappy, I agree, but this is impossible. Heavies walk around your cover, grenades are constantly being thrown, knife-dudes run up to you. Even if you killed Heavies and Knife-dudes, the amount of grenades in this game is hilarious.

Yes this makes the plot so deep and believable. With retards blindly running at your gun a normal person would wonder how they managed to survive the sandstorm in the first place.

 

[Grunker]

I was commenting on LundB's comment about sticking to the same piece of cover, but then you only care about your own delusions so why do I even care.