Spells and Skills in Planescape

[kingcomrade]

I played as a mage on my first time through, and I never really remember having spells be all that useful. In boss fights I'd nuke the guy, but spells were too precious to use in your average encounter and usually average encounters were over almost instantly anyways. The only real use I got was casting Cloudkill in the Shadow Sanctuary after getting all of the monsters to chase me (instakill).
Also, buffing was also the only other useful thing (it's practically bonus skill points since it lasts so long, which is nice. I hate when games give you a spell, but it only works for 1.23 seconds per level).
I didn't use magic much for healing, the characters just had way too many hit points and got into combat too often.

A lot of the spells would've been really cool if they had been more useful (like Charm, or whatever it's called). Since nothing in Planescape besides combat needed magic, that's the only place I used it. And most of the spells were either useless or too weak compared to other spells, and combat was so quick and easy that it was usually over before I could even think to open the spell menu.

Same thing goes for a lot of special character skills. No enemy was so powerful that it needed the succubus's kiss except that huge monster towards the end, and I don't think it worked on him anyways (resist, maybe?). I remember using Stealth twice, to sneak my party to the next screen. I never stole anything because there wasn't much profit in it (and if you need money, there's an infinite number of thieves in the beginning area who drop tons of jewelry and money and take a heartbeat to kill).

Was just me.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

The classes and items were a bit broken IMO. Mostly the mage class was good because you could get the best AC with it. For some reason there weren't many good combat items for fighters but tons for mages, and since you couldn't wear armor your fighter regularly got pounded. I liked going to 13th level fighter for lots of hit points and grandmastery and then sticking with mage but still meleeing with grandmastery in dagger and using mostly spells mostly to buff. Since strength eventually dwarfed weapon differences it wasn't much of a damage tradeoff to go dagger vs. axe or hammer in return for a much better AC. Kinda nonsensical and one of the things I didn't like too much about the game. They could have given fighters some kind of armor to make them actually good at what they're supposed to do, but I guess then you'd be covering up those scars and people wouldn't run their hands over them, oh noes.

 

[wendigo]

"Broken" describes it right, man. Torment seemed to want specific stat levels to make a difference in converstaion (high INT/WIS/CHA mostly) and combat almost seemed an afterthought-- keep your head screwed on and you'd prevail in any situation.

Picking a mage definetly paid off since conversation was so crucial, and combat so easy. Cloudkill utterly rocked, too... I loved that magic pipe that cast cloudkill. Killed off a whole building full of Xaoscitects (SP?) with that thing. Awesome 1st/2nd edition spell, for sure.

Sounds like you picked the right class for exploring the game to its utmost. Too bad there was never a sequal that could've addressed the balance issues.

 

[bozia2012]

Succubus' kiss didn't work because you had to actually *hit* (roll against enemy defense) and then (if successful) you had to make a roll against enemy's death resistance :D Most of time Grace would just miss the enemies 'coz she's a cleric (low THAC0) but also her kiss has very low penalties... But I managed to kill myself (TNO) a few times just for practice.

EDIT: I played fighter every time (switched to mage only to complete Dak'kon's Zerthimon training and to get the generall feeling) with STR, INT, CHA and WIS as major stats (INT & WIS are most important). Maxed nearly all (except AG wich was useless beyond 18) after opening bronze sphere... When you start the game make sure you have at least 15 INT :D and high STR (to get past 18/?? shit with one point)...
If you haven't played the game with INT, WIS and CHA as major stats (in that order) you haven't played Torment.

 

[kingcomrade]

I don't get the point of the bronze sphere. You aren't allowed to open it until the very end of the game, where it doesn't make any difference at all if you're going to talk the Transcendant One into the finale.

 

[Pussycat669]

Couldn't you confront the TO with the fact that you knew your shared name by opening the sphere and thus gain power over him (leading to the destroy-with-your-will scenario)? It's been a while since I last played the game.

 

[somnium]

Couldn't you confront the TO with the fact that you knew your shared name by opening the sphere and thus gain power over him (leading to the destroy-with-your-will scenario)? It's been a while since I last played the game.

Yes you could do that, but maybe you have to talk to that story telling npc in the Hive, that has something with smell, first (I don’t know his name). because He tells you about the powers that knowing someone’s true name hold.
You can use that power on TO if you have a high enough intelligence (or willpower) since he has the same name and all. Not to mention that you got something like 1000000 exp points for "reading" the thing

 

[Pussycat669]

Yes you could do that, but maybe you have to talk to that story telling npc in the Hive, that has something with smell, first (I don’t know his name). because He tells you about the powers that knowing someone’s true name hold.

Not necessarily. You would get a similar hint from the stone tablets in your crypt which you will have to read anyway in order to escape.

@kingcomrade
Oh that.
Well, there are one or two possible explanations for the XP (beside the impressive stat boost you get as a bonus for carying it around for so long) but I'm afraid they are all born from a narrative point of view and have nothing to do with the actual gameplay.
The first and most bluntly obvious one would be that they are a result of the sheer wisdom your character receives. Something quiet impressive considering that you gain more XP than from the three assimilated incarnations combined (?).
Then there is the (unlikely) possibility that by remembering his true name the NO reaches an important milestone in his quest of finding his lost identity. By this he manages to strenghten his grip on reality as an individual personality. Not by being absorded from the memories like he absorbed the incarnations but rather by being lifted from the self doubt of becoming his 'old self' he hardly knew so far and who could have been a completely different person.
That is to add, I speculate in this direction because disbelief seems to be one of the most hindering elements in the progress of self recognition/development in the game. For example Morte who continually lies to the NO despite the fact that he feels guilt about his dishonesty as it killed an inocent and the NO creating the image of a conflicted mind. D'ackon who is torn between his ideals and the imagined truth that theiy are all nothing but illusions (actually I'm not sure if you can put it that way. I've got to refresh my memory sometime).
Freed from their contradictionaly situation they are able to recognize their full potential or even surpass them (and thus raise their stats). It might be that something similar happens to the NO in that moment when he remembers his name (then the XP might be explained that the developers wanted you to raise your stats as you please instead of predetermine them like they did with your party members).

 

[kingcomrade]

I just meant the million EXP you get. What was the point of that. Just so you could beat the final boss in case you went for combat instead of dialogue?

 

[Thydron]

I like to think of it as being more sort of symbolic- you've finally remebered who you actually are/were, so your sort of completed, and get uber-strong.

 

[Mantiis]

I don't get the point of the bronze sphere. You aren't allowed to open it until the very end of the game, where it doesn't make any difference at all if you're going to talk the Transcendant One into the finale.

For someone that has a go at fallout 2 immersion you seem to be missing the point in Planescape. The sphere lets the NO finally 'get it'; he is no longer half a man, he has his memories and he knows what he has done and what now must occur. He knows his name for gods sake! That alone was one of the most powerful parts of the game for me.

Its not about XP, its about completing a story. The XP is just a DnD representation of what has transpired.

 

[kingcomrade]

For someone that has a go at fallout 2 immersion you seem to be missing the point in Planescape.

Yeah I missed the point in Planescape. Way to not read the entire thread before you reply.

 

[ad hominem]

I dunno, I didn't think the spells were all that broken, PS not being a terribly combat-oriented game. If you're trying to compare it to BG 2 or something, yeah, it'll look a little lack-luster. But with the right tattoos and such I found myself being able to complete most battles without having the Nameless One wade into melee thanks to Cone of Cold (saved my ass so many times in the Modron cube), Chromatic Orb and the like (I really liked the orb in the last dungeon; those shadows almost always failed save and were paralyzed until I'd killed them).

 

[Mantiis]

For someone that has a go at fallout 2 immersion you seem to be missing the point in Planescape.

Yeah I missed the point in Planescape. Way to not read the entire thread before you reply.

Initially you were talking about skills then you asked a question about the bronze sphere and why you get a ton of XP before the final battle. I quoted it to point out what I was addressing. Others did the same but you only had a go at me.

You sir are a dick.


*Waits for data4*

 

[bozia2012]

You get 2,000,000XP for opening the bronze sphere (+ massive bonus for high wisdom).
It has rather symbolic meaning - it was your goal to learn about your past and the bronze sphere is a memory of the original "incarnation". You can open the sphere only when you did some things earlier in the game that required INT and WIS. In my first 2 playthroughs I missed some stuff on the way and couldn't open it despite high intelligence and wisdom. You get the satisfaction of being complete - and you're ready to die or to live forever.(Also you gain about 11 levels by opening it (in my case: from 31 to 42 :D) or even more if your level is smaller than 20 or so).
Spells are not broken in PS:T but the magic is only supportive (I can't imagine defeating Agril-Shanak without magic missiles ) Enemies have insane saving throws so the only way is to use no-save-spells. Heart Grinder + axe mastery is better than any magic trick
The most fun in Torment was gaining knowledge (about the plot, your past, your companions).

 

[kingcomrade]

Others did the same but you only had a go at me.

Jee, you mean people already pointed something out, I clarified my question, and then you came in and posted the same thing just to be snotty? Yes, I'm the dick.

 

[Gambler]

Again, just out of curiocity, how many HPs did you have when you played a mage?

 

[suibhne]

The only time I had any trouble with combat was in the crypt (whatever it's called - I've forgotten) right after meeting Pharod the first time.

I felt the same way about playing a Mage - I was overpowered almost everywhere, and I regretted having little opportunity to cast any of the big-bang spells with cool animations. I replayed the final fights just so I could view spell animations I never got to see.

I did find the Bronze Sphere meaningful, otoh. As others said, the XP reward was merely symbolic of the sudden remembrance/growth; more to the point, it would have felt a bit underwhelming if you were simply told of this and your character didn't grow at all (even tho the resulting levels really weren't essential at that point).

 

[kingcomrade]

Again, just out of curiocity, how many HPs did you have when you played a mage?

I used the Max HP mod, which gives you the max HPs every time you level up (because getting 1 HP per level when I was a fighter over and over was gay) so I had plenty.

 

[Gambler]

I used the Max HP mod

I remember that. I just want to hear a reference number from someone.

By the way...

I didn't use magic much for healing, the characters just had way too many hit points and got into combat too often.

You should not complain about overabundance of hitpoints if you consciously used a third-party mod to get as much of them as possible.

 

[Thydron]

Before i went to the fortress i had about 60 HP as a mage i think .

 

[kingcomrade]

Who was complaining about the "overabundance" of HP, rather than the frequency of combat and the limited number of healing spells?

 

[Mantiis]

Others did the same but you only had a go at me.

Jee, you mean people already pointed something out, I clarified my question, and then you came in and posted the same thing just to be snotty? Yes, I'm the dick.

OH MY GOD! This was your last post before mine:

I just meant the million EXP you get. What was the point of that. Just so you could beat the final boss in case you went for combat instead of dialogue?

And this is what I said:

For someone that has a go at fallout 2 immersion you seem to be missing the point in Planescape. The sphere lets the NO finally 'get it'; he is no longer half a man, he has his memories and he knows what he has done and what now must occur. He knows his name for gods sake! That alone was one of the most powerful parts of the game for me.

Its not about XP, its about completing a story. The XP is just a DnD representation of what has transpired.

I underlined the bits so your awesomeness can comprehend it.

Oh and after level 10 in DnD 2nd Edition you are only supposed to gain 1hp per level.

 

[Spazmo]

Oh, geez, 2nd Edition rules qubbling ahead. Mages would only get 1 hp per level. Other classes would get more to reflect the fact that they're tougher. I *think* it went mage 1, thief 2, cleric 3, fighter 4. I think.

 

[Mantiis]

I believe the only difference in hp gain after lvl 10 (or 9) was the constitution bonus. Lemme check....