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Vapourware Sui Generis + Exanima Early Access

Spike

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[...] but clothing is especially problematic because there's a huge number of different items of varying shapes that can be worn in any combination. Every combination needs to change the shape of clothing, and so something like a shirt needs to come in thousands of shapes. These are dynamically assembled, but even so we need as many as 500 3D models in very specific configurations. For one shirt. This part is all done by hand, and it can take weeks of confusing and tedious work, testing and adjusting [...]
not only is this insane, it goes against the notion that the team developing it are competent autists. this reads like literal wheel-spinning by code monkeys
I did not catch that. That is one of the most insane, obnoxious things I have ever read on gamedev. The novelty for that is not worth the devtime. But I mean...oh well, I guess. The game will still be 10/10 on 1.0. :positive:
 
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That is quite dumb. Tediously dumb. That shirt nonsense evokes the proverbial boy trying to empty the ocean into his dug hole. I already went through the 5 stages of grieving on this project. I'm comfortably within acceptance and simply check in on this once in awhile. I just wish they'd turn their autism towards real gameplay elements. How about sperging out on new spells, or ranged weapons? I guarantee they've spent 20x as long obsessing over velvet simulation as the time it took for them to build the engine itself.
 

Spike

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That is quite dumb. Tediously dumb. That shirt nonsense evokes the proverbial boy trying to empty the ocean into his dug hole. I already went through the 5 stages of grieving on this project. I'm comfortably within acceptance and simply check in on this once in awhile.
Maybe Madoc has OCD.
 

Technomancer

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I just wish they'd turn their autism towards real gameplay elements. How about sperging out on new spells, or ranged weapons?
Ranged weapons were always past 1.0 feature. According to Madoc "it is easy to do". Said he has no intention of doing anything overly complex with it, not to a degree melee combat is. Spells are done, other schools will get backported from SG back into Exanima. Those are according to him also easy and simple to implement compared to Mind (AI) and Force (Physics) because Light, Body, Energy and Displacement thaumaturgies are mostly VFX and scripted effects. The only powers left unimplemented for now are cut Force Jump because there is no support of even basic jumping yet, some spells for budding ranged (same reason) and combined hybrid power of Force-Mind gained through Amalgamation skill.

Actual gameplay elements will come from new level and creatures and more independent AI characters in this update. This means addition of long missing Knight story character and possible one other that was hinted towards on previous update.
 
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AdolfSatan

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Spike

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Easy to implement my ass, once/if Madoc gets to ranged weapons, he's gonna spend another half a decade sperging about string simulation physics and realistic feathers.

sometimes in 2026
Heh, wouldn't surprise me as well if these "5%" would take two years to complete :hahano:
5% of 10 years is 6 months, so...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety–ninety_rule
Hah! Wasn't aware of this. So the last 10% takes as long as the first 90%. I'm gonna be married and have children when this finally releases :deathclaw:
 

thesecret1

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I can only assume that Sui Generis will have us play the role of a velvet merchant, where spotting any irregularities with the fabric's quality will be a core mechanic, and where NPC AI will be able to dynamically evaluate the sheen and craftsmanship of shirt buttons.
 

Technomancer

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Easy to implement my ass, once/if Madoc gets to ranged weapons, he's gonna spend another half a decade sperging about string simulation physics and realistic feathers.
Could be, could be. Just saying it how I read it. Tho if you think about it, fundamentally close combat took so much time because of how tricky it is to design combat system around procedurally generated animations and dynamic control. For ranged its literally just point and click, not too different from casting Bolt power which is already in game. Only needs 3D assets for bows and crossbows, level spawn for arrow or bolts and animations for aiming and reload. The most time-consuming part I imagine would be level design, if he adds some ranged enemies as well as some tweaking with how arrows interact with armor. Do they stick in characters? Do they break? Can armor deflect projectiles? Anyway, Madoc didn't voice any particular interest in making it super complex. Close combat is meat and bones of the game, maybe thaum too. Ranged is just extra. More interested in Alchemy personally but he didn't speak about it for ages.

I can only assume that Sui Generis will have us play the role of a velvet merchant
I love how velvet became a meme of this thread :-D
 
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Technomancer

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Ranged weapons were always past 1.0 feature.
Nvm, looks like it changed a few years ago.

Current roadmap is:

0.95 will come with new level called the Gardens, new characters, new AI "role" system (backbone of what is supposed to make SG a believable immersive world)

1.0 last story level (more optional sublevels will come after release) and ranged combat

Testing for 0.95 will likely begin early next year, in January-March. With public release coming somewhere near summer.

Final update will take awhile as usual but its the finishing line at last, so game could release in 2026 or 2027.
 

Spike

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Ranged weapons were always past 1.0 feature.
Nvm, looks like it changed a few years ago.

Current roadmap is:

0.95 will come with new level called the Gardens, new characters, new AI "role" system (backbone of what is supposed to make SG a believable immersive world)

1.0 last story level (more optional sublevels will come after release) and ranged combat

Testing for 0.95 will likely begin early next year, in January-March. With public release coming somewhere near summer.

Final update will take awhile as usual but its the finishing line at last, so game could release in 2026 or 2027.
2026 or 2027...:roll:
 

Technomancer

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2026 or 2027...:roll:
Usually big content updates take around 20 months or so. Seems like a reasonable guesstimate if you add that to next year pre-final update. Of course you can still play it next year with 0.95 update and finish it later. Enough time to git gut.
 

Spike

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2026 or 2027...:roll:
Usually big content updates take around 20 months or so. Seems like a reasonable guesstimate if you add that to next year pre-final update. Of course you can still play it next year with 0.95 update and finish it later. Enough time to git gut.
I want to play on a clean-slate 1.0. The last time I played the game was like 2014 lol. I am excited to see how massive the improvement is and I am delaying my gratification to the ultimate :greatjob:
 

Technomancer

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I want to play on a clean-slate 1.0. The last time I played the game was like 2014 lol. I am excited to see how massive the improvement is and I am delaying my gratification to the ultimate
Makes sense, though it wouldn't really be the ultimate version. Ultimate is post 1.0 with multiplayer, extra levels, more post release content and after that, back ported thaum from SG. So can pretty much wait forever for that "best version" for ultimate first time experience or gratification +M
 

Spike

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I want to play on a clean-slate 1.0. The last time I played the game was like 2014 lol. I am excited to see how massive the improvement is and I am delaying my gratification to the ultimate
Makes sense, though it wouldn't really be the ultimate version. Ultimate is post 1.0 with multiplayer, extra levels, more post release content and after that, back ported thaum from SG. So can pretty much wait forever for that "best version" for ultimate first time experience or gratification +M
Don't care about multi :salute: 1.0 is 1.0, so anything after is bonus.:positive:
 

Technomancer

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Don't we have them padded gloves already?

They don't really do anything for damage. Just offer superior protection for the arena item tier you can wear them in. But fist weapons as a class are not implemented yet at all.
 

Technomancer

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January 2025

Since we started working on roles a few months ago we've been focusing on a few specific goals. This is good, because what we've learned in years of theory crafting the system is that it's all too easy to get lost in hypotheticals and go down rabbit holes without really reaching a conclusion. Fundamentally the idea is that we can keep expanding our collection of roles, adding more nuance and situationally appropriate behaviours. Ultimately the complexity lies not in the system, but in the quantity and variety of roles, and when asked "what does the role system do?" the best answer we can give is "depends what you tell it to do". By focusing on few specific problems we can make progress without worrying too much about the endless potential applications. However, this is a critical moment in which we're defining not only a limited set of behaviours, but also the capabilities and details of the system.

We've done a lot in the past few months, much of it was building new AI features and behaviours rather than the roles themselves, but we've defined the mechanics for driving behaviours and activities with roles, how they can influence and exert control over emotions and solved various difficult problems. But the biggest obstacle in the system's design hasn't been how to make it function, but how to make its emergent complexity easy enough to make sense of and navigate for someone designing roles. It's important to understand that roles are not simple triggers and set behaviours, each one introduces possibilities, and many roles exist and are working at the same time. Basically we don't tell NPCs exactly what to do, we merely suggest things that they might want to do, but they are not limited to just a few choices that belong to expected paths.

One particular stumbling block has been "relational roles", which describe what individuals know or assume about each other, what specific relationships they might have, how they might interact under various circumstances and carry a detailed history of their previous interactions. These are usually reciprocal and often asymmetrical or dynamic pairings on both sides, which can explode into a huge number of relationships with varying affinities in both directions. This makes even apparently simple problems immediately confusing, and we've never been happy with this convoluted structure and its unclear implications. It has remained somewhat of an unsolved problem. We've been analysing many practical examples trying to narrow it down to something intuitive that could meet our requirements, and finally we've found something we're happy with.

We've also established some new mechanics for relational interactions, we simplified accessing and using complex role data by moving most of the complexity to the inner workings of our scripting language, which now has more advanced high level features and is supported by better visual tools. This also allows us to use fewer specialised roles and more intricate dynamic decision making. There's a lot of details we've established better, we have clear best practices in place of open ended problems. In finalising some of these details we've also dealt with another troublesome issue, which is that changing roles could cause historical data for them in saved games to not match up. This is inherently less problematic now and with the new tools we can easily track changes in role data allowing them to be patched.

We've completed, finally, the new AI behaviours and core mechanics to drive them. The scope of the roles is for now quite limited, but we're touching on everything the system needs to do. Having now also finalised how the roles themselves function, in a way that goes beyond our immediate requirements, we can now more quickly and confidently develop roles that aren't just placeholders. We're immediately seeing elegant solutions to introducing more complex behaviours and social dynamics for even the most basic and unintelligent encounters in the short term. We already have a very solid foundation for AI which works surprisingly well even without roles, so we're excited to see what we can do with proper roles that actually expand on this rather than hinder and limit it.

As for the clothing and cloth armour updates we've talked about recently, we completed the changes to how character models are generated and also identified and included more optimisations that will allow us to render characters more efficiently. We're very happy with some clever solutions we developed here, the entire system is much more efficient and robust. We're still replacing a couple more items, but the bulk of them is done. The new items look great, a huge upgrade from the items we replaced and with all these replacements, the new items and the material improvements, the overall upgrade to character visuals is huge. We also added a bunch of features and a tool for our new cloth physics system that allows us to use it for creating clothing assets and textures. We're able to change many parameters in real time, interact with the cloth and even dynamically change the structure. Our new cloth is very versatile and performant, we're able to do this with millions of polygons of cloth, tweaking and adjusting things in real time to quickly create some very high quality assets. We've yet to explore everything that we can do with this, but already we've gotten some very useful things out of it.

We think we're very close to being able to begin playtesting, we've been pushing the requirements for the first playtest further and further, but at this point everything looks quite final so there shouldn't be any more unexpected additions or requirements. The play test should be more about fixing issues and adding things rather than an early look at features that are still in development at this point.

Best,

Bare Mettle
 

AdolfSatan

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tbh the most exciting prospect in all of this (if it delivers on all it’s promising), will be a new paradigm on the concept of cheesing, because it seems the AI would be more reactive to a player trying to game the game.
 

Technomancer

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will be a new paradigm on the concept of cheesing, because it seems the AI would be more reactive to a player trying to game the game.

What kind of cheesing do you have in mind? Say in the open world RPG scenario of Sui Generis, in that game you basically are immortal. When you die, you will reform elsewhere naked and gearless, sure NPCs will react to it but how would that benefit you? There are bound to be some punishment mechanisms too, so far it is known that main character will always loose thaumaturgic potential on death, a rare, irreplaceable innate 'resource' from which all of your psionic powers scale. So each death makes you slightly weaker.
 

ERYFKRAD

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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
so far it is known that main character will always loose thaumaturgic potential on death, a rare, irreplaceable innate 'resource' from which all of your psionic powers scale.
Oh cool, I was hoping there would be a way to play as a dude without magic.
 

Technomancer

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February 2025

So, roles. We haven't begun testing just yet, though that's not the only thing we've been working on (more on that later). After we'd just figured out a whole bunch of stuff (see last diary) our goal was just to set up the roles that will be used in testing the main, important and difficult things. Of course as we got into the details there was a lot of wondering about how to best approach some of them and lots of interesting ideas coming up. A lot of this is about identifying things that could be considered common behavioural patterns rather than specific to a role we're adding. Sometimes this means making changes to core AI, sometimes it means more systematic role features, or standard roles and mechanics that handle a subset of common behaviours. Doing this alleviates the burden from the role designer, and creates a more robust foundation that supports more emergent elements and basically keeps things running smoothly even when there are no specific roles or cases.

The focus right now has been mainly on social dynamics, introducing the idea of social settings dictating what's considered appropriate at a higher level and also putting a greater emphasis on personality traits. Some of this gets pretty complicated, but basically it's how people modify their core behaviour and disposition depending on who they're interacting with and under what circumstances. In the short term, it's the foundation that drives how intelligent NPC companions behave with the player and how this can change, but implicitly also with and between the less intellectually inclined denizens of Exanima. It's basically ways in which different roles and situationally appropriate behaviours come into play automatically.

A lot of this also relates to aggressive behaviours. A well recognised issue we've been exploring is how AI currently tends to hold a grudge towards one particular opponent and make poor tactical decisions. This is because AI is currently purely emotionally driven, and a big part of what we're doing when adding roles is exerting control over emotions. Emotions are generally a bit too volatile as it is, and we're making adjustments, but roles can provide more context for the need or repercussions of violent behaviour, and once engaged in combat people can then make more logical and informed decisions. Dialogue could also influence this and various emotional responses might be overridden when it's considered important. We're not just trying to define a set of rules to produce a certain outcome, we always ask ourselves what would a real human do, why, and how do we simulate that?

That might sound like a lot to cover, but don't worry, we're still only focusing on some relatively simple immediate goals, but the way we approach them is important in defining how we can continue to build on them and something we take very seriously. Even if we're not doing something right now, we need to think about how what we do later will fit. While they need a lot of careful consideration, these are mostly details and adjustments within a system, and we will continue to make adjustments as we observe it and get feedback from players.

As we're taking a more and more structured approach to role mechanics and design we also saw a need for the design tools to evolve. We've come up with a new style which is much more intuitive to navigate and work with, giving a quick visual overview and access to all the behaviours and interactions a role provides. Our aim is something that anyone wanting to create story lines or characters can pick up with relative ease.

While we are trying to focus on getting the roles ready, we do also need to keep the content pipeline going in terms of features and development tools. We've been putting a lot of effort into supporting new types of content, scaling up production speed and leaning more heavily into procedural methods. There was recently a big rework of our terrain system, assets and tools, to not only improve visuals, but to more easily produce the bulk of natural environments using procedural methods. At the time there was one feature we wanted to include, but didn't: detail displacement. This creates an illusion of 3D detail on otherwise flat surfaces, something we already use for stone walls and the like, but not terrain which uses dynamically generated unique texturing. If we could make things such as stones, roots and other ground details effectively look 3D, it would save us a whole lot of work and performance inserting actual 3D details, while leveraging our already excellent procedural terrain painting systems and tools. These can also blend things together far better than intersecting 3D models. It would be a perfect fit, and this kind of effect is also very well suited to our isometric style view.

However, while displacement is great, to actually create convincing depth and shape we need another very important visual cue: shadows. Shadows also means light not reaching little places it shouldn't, you might not always be keenly aware of their absence, but something is off and your brain is not convinced. We make heavy use of dynamic shadow casting lights, so some shadow like effect is not enough, we'd need actual shadows from every light source. The shadows also need to look consistent with others, so that it's not obvious which 3D details are "real" or "fake". It sounded difficult and expensive, but extremely desirable, pivotal even, as we develop more detailed natural environments that would otherwise require lots of tricky modelling and level design work and expensive 3D elements, which still wouldn't look as good or allow for finer detail. It was definitely worth trying, and we came up with our own shadowing approach that is well suited to our particular engine and tricky requirements. We even came up with an efficient displacement solution which removes the stretchy artefacts common with these approaches. This was particularly important with our procedurally generated textures which can't be tweaked by hand. This feature is now fully implemented in our terrain, materials and tools and game ready, and the results are quite impressive. There is a performance cost, but it's very fast and more than compensates for not having to add expensive and ugly models and geometry. It's also more easily scalable, for the potato users, you can just turn graphics settings down.

We're only just discovering how powerful this can really be, especially when combined with our procedural ground detail. We've already updated some existing ground and other assets, but we've yet to really take advantage of this. From now on, it will be a critical part of our art pipeline. There are so many great examples of this, but here's a few screenshots just to illustrate the kind of difference this tech can make:

774188dc088ecfb6cfd244e3bfaedb372be44176.jpg

0328556f7ee472446a0e4b115294f72f26278eb6.jpg

268aee91467d9603b0707473b9a2c65da2ab48a4.jpg


While working on these lighting features we couldn't help but take notice of a few other things we'd been hoping to improve, but hadn't managed to yet. When we first implemented our global illumination (GI) system along with the new renderer, we wanted something fully dynamic and blazingly fast. We absolutely nailed it. For those who don't know, dynamic GI systems tend to murder your performance and have their share of problems and limitations. Our GI system certainly has its limits, but much of this is just precision and similar concerns that are performance trade-offs. The most keen-eyed players shared some of our nit-picks, mainly that shadowed areas often look too dark, which doesn't look natural, lacks depth and makes visibility in darker areas uncomfortable. Taking a fresh look at the problem, we found a performant solution to correct these shortcomings. It's quite the improvement, indirect lighting is less harsh, while actually adding more depth and detail to the image. The game's signature darkness is still very much there, but it's more realistic with partial darkness showing something and not being impenetrable, adding more to the atmosphere. Outdoor environments benefited even more, where the odd mix of dark and bright shadows looked very out of place. The lighting is more natural and reflected light more vibrant. One thing led to another, and we then made further improvements, adding more detail to indirect lighting. We also made some quality improvements to our shadows, making for a cleaner image. The overall visual impact is huge, some of the devs considered it the biggest leap in visual quality the game has seen.

Global illumination differences are harder to clearly show in screenshots and we don't have direct comparisons. The aim here is subtle realism, if nothing stands out it means we did well. Capturing the range can be tricky, but the shadows are crisp and contrast sunlight well while still showing lots of lighting detail and depth within them, and things look nicely grounded.

e3de35a1d93e56bcd4751064c3924fc7b279d980.jpg


Even in a dimly lit room, you can still see lots of detail inside the shadows, they don't just swallow up large portions of the screen. It's more realistic and immersive and you can make out quite a bit more of your surroundings even in relative darkness.

b27515c63b5b10f2fe024e0458c06afc778427f1.jpg


Clearly there was some shifting of priorities here, but both in terms of roles, AI and visuals these are very good changes and we've been working very hard to get it all in a complete state right now. We're working on one last piece of fancy new clothing, and we should hopefully be able to wrap up the role stuff up quickly. The role and AI changes are obviously very big and broad, and we definitely expect to be fleshing them out and tuning them over time rather than all in one go.

Best,

Bare Mettle
 

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