Suspension of disbelief is dead

[Heresiarch]

In modern gaming, it is.

Quite ironic it is, though modern games are having better grafix and all the bloom and lighting and tons of polygon to create characters with, issues like objects popping up in the distance, character and item clipping, repetitive animations during combat and conversation are all becoming more and more apparent.

AI are also becoming more and more dumbfuckery even though our CPU and coding technique are improving, because AIs simply can't handle free-form moving and all the minor obstacles like barrels, campfire and cooking sets! In the old days when everything is grid based, there are just not much way to trick enemies with. But now, everyone can get bandits and ogres and dragons alike stuck on some stupid slope, rooftop or just about everything more than a few polygons big. Not mention you can always use "techniques" like clipping and kiting to kill monsters much stronger than you - that big fat Ogre is far stupider and fak-ish than the big letter O in roguelikes.

Grafix are also growing way too fancy and tiresome to look at, because a single blast from the laser cannon of noobness can fill the screen full of rainbow like explosions making me feel dizzy - even a BFG doesn't do that. WTF I'm killing monsters not looking through a kaleidoscope!

Next to audio. OMG I fucking hate most of the voice overs in modern games. Emotionless guys and gaylike voices are some of the biggest immurshon kiilers. And they often talk while standing perfectly still, ala Oblivion and FO3, like some scared the fuck out of a soldier reporting to an officer. The ones who move and wave their hands alot like KOTOR feel so lame because they're just repeating the same move over and over again like suffering from some illness. Fuck, standing still is shit, moving is shit, maybe they should just don't talk at all!

"MOD KAN FIKS TEM ALL!" This is the lamest thing ever. Everytime I play Morrowind or Oblivion or anything which can have mods, I just drop them without playing through 1/10. Because the more mods I install, there more apparent the other issues become, and I install more, both necessary like game fixes, or stupid ones like naked girls and bikini armor, and eventually I realize I'm not playing a fucking game, but a digitalized (sp?) simulator with tons of human-sized polygons having polygonized breasts and blood made by some horny otaku (or a group of otakus) with no life living in some creepy basement, uttering utterly fake and unbelievable stories written by some bald-then-growed-hair fatso with voices from some random guy who can't even pronouce English correctly.

My conclusion: I find myself easier and more enjoyble to roleplay a "@" than a handsome gay/sexy biatch with thousands of polygons.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

and I install more, both necessary like game fixes, or stupid ones like naked girls and bikini armor

Why do you dl naked girls and bikini armor mods then later complain about playing an otaku dream simulator?

I didn't want to see cat dongs so I avoided Slof's mods for Morrowind.

 

[lightbane]

In modern gaming, it is.

Quite ironic it is, though modern games are having better grafix and all the bloom and lighting and tons of polygon to create characters with, issues like objects popping up in the distance, character and item clipping, repetitive animations during combat and conversation are all becoming more and more apparent.

AI are also becoming more and more dumbfuckery even though our CPU and coding technique are improving, because AIs simply can't handle free-form moving and all the minor obstacles like barrels, campfire and cooking sets! In the old days when everything is grid based, there are just not much way to trick enemies with. But now, everyone can get bandits and ogres and dragons alike stuck on some stupid slope, rooftop or just about everything more than a few polygons big. Not mention you can always use "techniques" like clipping and kiting to kill monsters much stronger than you - that big fat Ogre is far stupider and fak-ish than the big letter O in roguelikes.

Grafix are also growing way too fancy and tiresome to look at, because a single blast from the laser cannon of noobness can fill the screen full of rainbow like explosions making me feel dizzy - even a BFG doesn't do that. WTF I'm killing monsters not looking through a kaleidoscope!

Next to audio. OMG I fucking hate most of the voice overs in modern games. Emotionless guys and gaylike voices are some of the biggest immurshon kiilers. And they often talk while standing perfectly still, ala Oblivion and FO3, like some scared the fuck out of a soldier reporting to an officer. The ones who move and wave their hands alot like KOTOR feel so lame because they're just repeating the same move over and over again like suffering from some illness. Fuck, standing still is shit, moving is shit, maybe they should just don't talk at all!

"MOD KAN FIKS TEM ALL!" This is the lamest thing ever. Everytime I play Morrowind or Oblivion or anything which can have mods, I just drop them without playing through 1/10. Because the more mods I install, there more apparent the other issues become, and I install more, both necessary like game fixes, or stupid ones like naked girls and bikini armor, and eventually I realize I'm not playing a fucking game, but a digitalized (sp?) simulator with tons of human-sized polygons having polygonized breasts and blood made by some horny otaku (or a group of otakus) with no life living in some creepy basement, uttering utterly fake and unbelievable stories written by some bald-then-growed-hair fatso with voices from some random guy who can't even pronouce English correctly.

My conclusion: I find myself easier and more enjoyble to roleplay a "@" than a handsome gay/sexy biatch with thousands of polygons.

In other words: welcome to the Dark Age of the Dark, Grim, Gritty and EXTREME of nowadays games, where there is only casuals and retards.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Oh, you are talking about mainstream games? I don't go near those any more.

 

[entertainer]

Oh, you are talking about mainstream games? I don't go near those any more.

 

[bozia2012]

Eh, more advanced graphics are replaced by more hype and bloom (and particle shit). What we get nowadays:
- clipping issues (on pre-made characters?)
- magically attached weapons (just floating along with the character - no straps or sheaths)
- dumb combat animations (character just whacking away at each other - what about context-animation?)
- blurry, faded textures etc.

Fuck design, AI, VOs, writing and stuff - they can't even get the gfx done right in my AAA game! Quality doesn't matter anymore (did it ever?) - just throw more shinies for the unwashed masses. There are of course exceptions to this, but some things should already become default, eh?

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Oh, you are talking about mainstream games? I don't go near those any more.

Oh, you're talking about indie shit games with fugly graphics and no animations at all?

OP's a whiner. I won't even fucking bother. You're wrong, shut up.

Also in before five pages of people playing jRPGs complaining about immershun.

 

[lightbane]

Eh, more advanced graphics are replaced by more hype and bloom (and particle shit). What we get nowadays:
- clipping issues (on pre-made characters?)
- magically attached weapons (just floating along with the character - no straps or sheaths)
- dumb combat animations (character just whacking away at each other - what about context-animation?)
- blurry, faded textures etc.

Fuck design, AI, VOs, writing and stuff - they can't even get the gfx done right in my AAA game! Quality doesn't matter anymore (did it ever?) - just throw more shinies for the unwashed masses. There are of course exceptions to this, but some things should already become default, eh?

You forgot games that are made for people that don't like/are too retarded to play, such as rpgs with no roleplaying elements, fps with regenerating shit, etc.

 

[bozia2012]

Eh, more advanced graphics are replaced by more hype and bloom (and particle shit). What we get nowadays:
- clipping issues (on pre-made characters?)
- magically attached weapons (just floating along with the character - no straps or sheaths)
- dumb combat animations (character just whacking away at each other - what about context-animation?)
- blurry, faded textures etc.

Fuck design, AI, VOs, writing and stuff - they can't even get the gfx done right in my AAA game! Quality doesn't matter anymore (did it ever?) - just throw more shinies for the unwashed masses. There are of course exceptions to this, but some things should already become default, eh?

You forgot games that are made for people that don't like/are too retarded to play, such as rpgs with no roleplaying elements, fps with regenerating shit, etc.

No sense arguing over design decisions if the fuckers can't even make teh grafix. Once graphics were a game-seller, now we get hype wrapped in cheap DX effects.

 

[Mogar]

No sense arguing over design decisions if the fuckers can't even make teh grafix. Once graphics were a game-seller, now we get hype wrapped in cheap DX effects.

Correction, cheap, unoptomized DX effects. When will game developers learn, its not the technical power of graphics, its how you use them. In this way, abstracted games with an actual art direction from 4 years ago look better then today's games.

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

You need to be more open-minded about what is believable and what is not. Something may happen in a fantasy game that does not repeatedly occur in your daily life, such as objects and grass being drawn at closer distance than you would expect. There is a distinction to be made between events which seem unbelievable because you are not used to their repeated occurrence and events which seem unbelievable because there is no logic behind them.

So all I can say is, open your mind and enjoy the beauties and challenges of modern mainstream games.

 

[draexem]

Next to audio. OMG I fucking hate most of the voice overs in modern games. Emotionless guys and gaylike voices are some of the biggest immurshon kiilers.

John Cleese in Jade Empire and the voice of HK-47 were fucking awesome.

 

[Tails]

Oh, you are talking about mainstream games? I don't go near those any more.

 

[mondblut]

John Cleese in Jade Empire and the voice of HK-47 were fucking awesome.

John Cleese was in Jade Empire? Oh shi-

We need a Quest for the Holy Grail RPG.

 

[Azrael the cat]

John Cleese in Jade Empire and the voice of HK-47 were fucking awesome.

John Cleese was in Jade Empire? Oh shi-

We need a Quest for the Holy Grail RPG.

You didn't spot him? I didn't check to be sure, but at a guess I suspect he's the one non-party NPC who only has about 2 minutes of dialogue but in that time manages to establish himself as more awesome than all the other characters combined, on top of which his role is basically to stand there and tell the player how he's more awesome than all the other NPCs combined. And he carries a big fucking gun

 

[Trithne]

He's that english fellow you run into somewhere. I forget exactly where. And I'm not playing JE again to find out.

 

[Gragt]

John Cleese playing Sir Roderick Ponce Von Fontlebottom the Magnificent Bastard is the best part of Jade Empire, a shame the rest couldn't follow.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Oh, you're talking about indie shit games with fugly graphics and no animations at all?

Not at all. I am talking about games with excellent gameplay and challenge. Best of luck on your graphics and animation quest, though quite a lot of movies are mainly just this, made on computer. You should just head to the cinema from now on.

 

[GarfunkeL]

John Cleese playing Sir Roderick Ponce Von Fontlebottom the Magnificent Bastard is the best part of Jade Empire, a shame the rest couldn't follow.

Yes, the only part I played twice just co I could make sure I didn't miss any of the dialog with him. Definately highlight of the game.

 

[Keldryn]

This is an unfortunate side-effect of the drive towards ever more "realistic" games. The closer that games get to emulating reality, the more glaring the flaws become.

When games are less abtract in their representation of real-world constructs, we naturally expect a greater degree of fidelity. Movement must be animated fluidly and naturally. Objects and environments must be modeled in exquisite detail and must be fully interactive in the ways in which we expect. There must be no pop-in, blurred textures, visible seams, and the like. Characters must not get stuck on a tree root or potion bottle and keep running in place. Intelligent creatures must behave intelligently and respond to the player's actions -- their direct and indirect effects -- appropriately.

I don't really think that AI-controlled characters in the old 2D games behaved any more intelligently or realistically than they do in modern games; monsters typically just charged at the player, ran away when hurt, and sometimes would hold back and use ranged attacks. Behavior that was acceptable from a 1-inch high 2D representation suddenly looks very stupid and unbelievable when it is exhibited from a highly-detailed, stunningly-animated 3D representation that takes up half of your on-screen view. Particularly when said creature gets stuck on a corner and can't navigate around it, or you climb up on a rock just out of reach while the creature stands at the base of the rock swiping just below your feet repeatedly.

Modern games have far more sophisticated AI routines than do games of even 10 years ago; unfortunately the development of AI doesn't seem to have been able to keep up with the growing complexity of the game as a whole. Modern games have a much wider variety and greater number of far more detailed animations, yet they seem more repetitive. The games of today present a much more highly detailed world than before, yet they seem less fully-realized, as the tricks and techniques of the past just don't cut it anymore.

Human characters still tend to look more than a little "off" at the best of times. The human brain has significant structural areas specialized in the recognition and perception of human faces. More realistic 3D models are naturally subject to a greater degree of scrutiny, and it's incredibly difficult for a 3D artist to create a model that stands up to these unconscious processes that our brains are constantly performing. And what looks right at a certain angle or with a neutral expression can suddenly look hideous as soon as that changes slightly.

The more "realistic" that a game tries to be, the more ... stuff (for lack of a better term) needs to be put into the game. And all of that needs to be thought of, organized, and created by artists and designers. Budgets and schedules are limited, and the more time and effort spent getting all of this scaffolding into the game, the less is available for other elements that really make a game stand out.

The real world is an extremely complex and detailed place. I don't think that trying to simulate it as fully as possible is a very good game design paradigm. The best games limit their scope and have a strong focus. Games with an overhead/isometric perspective drastically limit the scope of the visual fidelity required to bring the game world to life. This is the main issue I have with the Elder Scrolls games; they focus so much on having expansive, free-roaming worlds that there aren't enough interesting and unique things to see and do before the game gets very repetitive.

Too many games fall into the trap of trying to be ultra-realistic over trying to be well-designed. Artistic design and game design are always more vital to a good game than pushing the latest technology to be as "realistic" as currently possible. Those games are only impressive until the next "most realistic" thing comes along, and almost always age poorly.

Suspension of disbelief can still be alive and well in modern games -- but the games need to actively keep you believing in the fantasy and not focus on the quirks that draw you out of it.

When I would initiate conversation with a character in Ultima VII or Baldur's Gate, it didn't bother me in the least that everybody on the screen stopped moving. When I initiate conversation in Oblivion or Fallout 3 and there are no other characters on-screen, I don't notice that the world is paused; when there is another character on-screen and I see them frozen in time while the character I am conversing with continues to gesture and move around, it totally breaks the suspension of disbelief. Mass Effect does not do this; it's a seemingly trivial point, but one that I very much appreciate. Not that Mass Effect doesn't have jarring elements that ruin suspension of disbelief, but the way conversations occurs is not one of them (for me).

If Ultima VII had required unique, highly detailed character models for every NPC, full voice acting, fluid animations for all of the world interactions, a fully-3D world rendered in enough detail such that even a spoon or bit of spider's silk looked good on a 52" 1080p screen, an even semi-realistic physics engine, and an AI advanced enough to handle the extra world complexity, it would likely not have been the game so fondly remembered today (and that's assuming that the technology and know-how existed in the early 90s). It was able to portray a world as believable as many of us found it because it was at a higher level of abstraction than a game like Oblivion.