System Shock 1 vs 2 - Which is better and why?

[tormund]

The original midwife model is made from the stuff of nightmares.

Same goes for that old replacement model IMO, but for all the wrong reasons... I really don't want to know what was going on in its maker's head.

 

[DraQ]

Jacking into cyberspace to override security systems, manipulate tech and remove obstacles 'in the real world' felt very tangible and was just plain cool.

Still not as cool as hacking security, followed by a bunch of turrets to kill anything trying to creep up on you. Even if hacking itself was a simplistic minigame.

Horror aspects are a major difference. SS2 was horror in a 'it's dark and loud in here and there are insane monkeys looking to rip me to pieces'... quite overt.

SS1 was like oh shit a camera just spotted me and I hear a heavy mech activating. I have nowhere to hide! Quite different.

I'd say it's the other way around. For starters you don't have cameras that actually spot you in SS1. You also don't have nearly as bad resource attrition, so fight is a much more straightforward affair although avoidance can still be an option when faced with enemies that don't drop ammo or have a good chance of injuring you (autobombs, hoppers).

 

[Infinitron]

I really don't want to know what was going on in its maker's head.

I'm sure he feels okay about his work on that mod: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,248246/

 

[Melan]

The original midwife model is made from the stuff of nightmares.

And bits and pieces of the divine Louise Brooks, which makes it twice as disturbing.

 

[DefJam101]

Nah, Minecraft and stuff like Eldritch, Delver etc - it's fapping on mid-1990s 3D, the time for early 2000-s 3D hasn't come yet.

Some low-poly 3d is genuinely good, though.

See: basically every good horror game ever made or shit like Interstate '76

 

[kwanzabot]

if ss1 was in ss2's engine it would be better

ss1 has a way better soundtrack though

im not sure if ss2 is better but it's def easier to play, both great games though

 

[Gentle Player]

It's still a great game, and overall I enjoyed it, but SS2 was a bit of a disappointment for me. I was expecting a more minimalist and horror themed SS1 with the great level design and attention to detail of Thief. Whilst it certainly delivered on the former, I found the level design wanting when compared to both SS1 and Thief. Also, the horrible final sections of the game sullied the experience somewhat, what with it being the freshest thing on the player's mind after he's won it. Sure, I'm used to great games which have poor endgames, but SS2 was something else. The boss fight was utter nonsense and that stupid "nah" scene belongs in some sort of comedic "blooper-reel" style thing rather than the finale to an otherwise moody and atmospheric game.

I thought the SS1 Cyberspace was really cool. An alternate gameplay mode with its own set of rules and tools. I liked how you had to find those tools in the real world.

My brain may be leaking here, but I'm pretty sure most (if not all?) of the Cyberspace tools were actually picked up in Cyberspace itself.

Hmmm. I think Thief 2 being considered inferior to TDP is a semi-hipstery thing that has only recently become a kind of conventional wisdom.

I don't know what you mean by "semi-hipstery" but the arguments in favour of TDP over Metal Age are perfectly sound. Thief II desperately needed its own "Gold" version; don't forget that one level near the end of the game is essentially a repeat of the level directly before it, just with some additional objectives on the top floor and some extra guards. I was stunned when I first finished that mission. I remember starting it out and playing through the beginning without batting an eyelid, expecting there to be another Assassins! switcheroo, but no. Last level was fantastic though. Then there are also the arguments about variety and the obvious mistakes with the "world-building" aspect of Thief II (only an issue because its predecessor and most other LGS games are so fantastic in that regard).

Ultima Underworld is the only duo where I find it hard to pick a clear favourite. I adore both for different reasons.

 

[Infinitron]

Gentle Player Semi-hipstery in that it seemed like only a small group of crochety know-it-alls were saying it. I'm speaking mostly of my experience lurking the TTLG forums in the 2000s.

For a very long time people were too busy geeking out over levels like Life of the Party to notice the bad ones. Emil Pagliarulo, causing games to become overrated since 2000

 

[voodoo47]

Man how many more years are screenshots of that out-of-date model going to be circulated? voodoo47 you guys should replace that.

yeah, I really should (and I actually have access, so I can). the current model looks like this (beta02+);

everyone likes a girl with a smile on her face, right? even though technically, there is no face.

 

[Excidium II]

System Shock 1 because it's older so it makes me more monocled.

 

[Elzair]

I am about to play through both and will vote then.

 

[Ash]

In late 1990-s/early 2000-s pixelated graphics of earlier games were considered "aged badly". Now they're back in fashion. Give it 5-10 years, and there will be hipsters and whatnot fapping on early low-poly 3D.

I already fap over early 3D games from a graphical standpoint (less so than gameplay though). Every 3D game today looks generic as fuck and indifferent from one another, though of course art direction plays a big role in that too. There's a special charm to early 3D that will never be replicated.

Also lol @SS1 beating SS2 in the poll. I guess the following explains why:

"System Shock 1 because it's older so it makes me more monocled."

 

[Ivan]

I just recently played SS1 for the first time a month ago or so, and I've had SS2 under my belt for a few years now. SS2 is clearly the more impressive title. SS1 is much more lighthearted, action focused, and generally mild.

 

[Excidium II]

I like the music in SS1 more than in SS2.

 

[A horse of course]

I like the music in SS1 more than in SS2.

This is partially the "fault" of System Shock 2 taking full advantage of sound. I turned off the music in SS2 because it made it more difficult to hear enemies moving around. But yeah it is better.

 

[Ash]

Turning off Shock 2's soundtrack is defiling the game, no other way around it. Hearing enemy footsteps is barely a concern when they make a shitload of noise beyond just footsteps (they make constant vocal barks), and there is a music volume slider anyway, so you can have the music at a lesser value to the SFX if you really must, but I never found hearing enemies a problem even with the slider at full.

 

[Excidium II]

The music is just too intense.

 

[Tito Anic]

I already fap over early 3D games from a graphical standpoint (less so than gameplay though). Every 3D game today looks generic as fuck and indifferent from one another, though of course art direction plays a big role in that too. There's a special charm to early 3D that will never be replicated.

Also lol @SS1 beating SS2 in the poll. I guess the following explains why:

"System Shock 1 because it's older so it makes me more monocled."

 

[Ash]

The music is just too intense.

At all the right intervals. The majority of the time the music is ambient, and sometimes there is no music at all. Meanwhile the intense DnB triggers at all the right points. This is great, atmosphere-establishing variety and you're spoiling the game for yourself by turning it off.

SS2 is intense in general.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

SS2 overplayed the horror aspects IMO. Not the same game at all.

 

[Ash]

For an Immersive Sim using a much improved engine based in System Shock's universe, that was the only way forward, because really being in Goggles' shoes would be a fucking horrific nightmare, and it would be if in the Hacker's shoes too.

Also immersion is multiplied by horror/fear substantially. I guarantee you if SS1 was released in 1999 it would have had a strong horror focus too.
You also say that as if it was a trade off, that we have a horror focus instead of something else? If so, what is it? Shock 1's wierd retro cyberpunk vibe? Yeah, that was cool, but there's no reason Shock 2 should have tried to replicate that given LGS' ambitions.

 

[Repulsive]

2nd game felt rushed, was also way too easy and straight forward compared to the first.

 

[DraQ]

I like the music in SS1 more than in SS2.

This is partially the "fault" of System Shock 2 taking full advantage of sound. I turned off the music in SS2 because it made it more difficult to hear enemies moving around. But yeah it is better.

OTOH SS1's music was full of random noises that weren't all that distinct from the ones made by enemies and muddled already limited audio landscape into near uselessness.
SS2's soundtrack was intense at times but not really more intense and it was always easy to filter out.
In addition to being just plain better.

SS1 was better in most, if not all, mechanical aspects it shared with SS2, but atmosphere and music in SS2 were immeasurably superior.

 

[Ash]

"SS1 was better in most, if not all, mechanical aspects it shared with SS2"

I know we've been here before, but all I remember is you repeatedly bashing the RPG systems for conflicting with realism, and subsequently immersion. And while that criticism is valid I don't neccessarily agree with it, because immersion is not the be-all-end-all and LGS understood that despite how hard they pushed for it. Anyway what I wanted to say is I want to know what you think is systematically or mechanically inferior about SS2 compared to SS1, aside from the RPG systems being flawed?

 

[Latro]

SS2 is way too rough by the end, as basically everyone agrees. Dumb ending, psychic monkeys, and did I say the last quarter-10% is bad? I did.
SS1 holds up in the end, as much as I loved SS2 (and I played it first...) it's finally starting to reek a bit after so long.