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From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

Joined
Dec 17, 2013
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Ok, I think I might have found the best build for Dark Souls 1. Or at least, one that works amazingly well for me.

Up to now, I've been mostly playing on my Dexterity based Dark Wanderer with a focus on parrying. Got the parrying buckler, light gear, etc. Would parry anything humanoid, and dodge against bosses and the like, occasionally switching to a bow. I've gotten pretty deep on that, rang the first bell (in the church), explored most of catacombs, new londo, darkroot garden, etc, beat many bosses (Taurus Demon, Capra Demon, Gargoyles, Armored Pig, Moonlight Butterfly, 3 Black Knights, Havel, 2 headless statues, etc).

But that build felt kinda weak to me because it relied so much on reflexes. I never had great reflexes to begin with, and now that im not a spring chicken anymore, they got even worse. And yet to parry the quicker enemies in Dark Souls, you need really good reflexes. Enemies like Black Knights, Hollow Thieves, and Skeletons switch up super fast attacks with really slow ones, so you can't even anticipate them. If they were always fast, I could just hit parry early, which sometimes works, but if it's a slow or delayed attack, you are shit out of luck. I've tried all the tips online, such as watching the arm/hand instead of the weapon, but with these quicker enemies, it just doesn't work for me. If i wait to react, they hit me before the parry goes off, and if i hit parry early, they get me with slower attacks. Got so bad, I switched up my regular buckler/longsword combo for a divine halberd to clear out the catacombs, just couldn't deal with parrying skellies anymore.

So today, I rolled a different toon, a strength-based Knight. Based on my experience with DS1, as soon as I came to Firelink Shrine, I ran through the cemetery in front of catacombs, and picked up the Zweihander there. So the Zweihander is huge, and hits like a truck (130 damage un-upgraded, which is way higher than other starting level 2-handers). But what people might not realize, is that it also blocks 70% of physical damage when used in Guard. Compare that to only 60% for Bastard Sword and Claymore. It also has higher stability.

So basically my plan was to play a pseudo-parry character. Instead of having to split-second parry with a real parry, I would just throw up Guard whenever the enemy attack is coming, and then attack. You can't really hold it up like a shield for a long time, since its stability is not that great, and heavy 2-handed hits take a lot of stamina, so there's definitely a timing element involved, more so than with shields. But with a 70% physical damage blocking, and heavy armor, you should be able to negate most damage from attacks. At least that was my theory.

So I played for a couple of hours, and it was way better than I expected. I defeated the Black Knight in the basement in Undead Burg the first time I faced him, at level 12 or so. Blocked each of his attacks, and immediately followed up with heavy attack from the Zweihander, which did massive damage and often staggered him too, allowing me time to recoup stamina. 3-4 heavy hits, and he was down. The attacks I blocked did very little damage, although he did catch me a couple of times, since he attacks very often.

Then, I defeated the Taurus Demon, the second time I faced him on this toon. Again, the blocks ate up vast majority of his massive attacks, and my heavy attacks hit him HARD and staggered him.

Finally, defeated the armored boar in the Undead Parrish after a few tries, by staying to his back.

The number of tries it took me to defeat those guys on my parrying build was probably over 200 combined (killed the armored boar with arrows too). So this build is just so much more powerful.
 

Silva

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Obvious. Everybody knows the Zwey is arguably the best and most cheesy weapon in the game. See big daddy.

But don't let this hinder your fun. Be happy bro.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
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Obvious. Everybody knows the Zwey is arguably the best and most cheesy weapon in the game. See big daddy.

But don't let this hinder your fun. Be happy bro.
Everyone knows this but everyone says Dex is the way to go and it's super OP because you can like, bleed taurus demon, or something.
 

Wunderbar

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Everyone knows this but everyone says Dex is the way to go and it's super OP because you can like, bleed taurus demon, or something.
DEX is a prestigious way to play. You're not cheesing enemies with high poise damage, stable shield, powerful magic, heavy armor or any other method that makes sense. It's only your reflexes. You either float like a butterfly and sting like a bee, or you die in one hit. Fun!
 

Damned Registrations

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Power Within is the real OP shit anyways. The stamina regen on that spell alone is worth the damage taken, nevermind the insane damage multiplier.
 

Lutte

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Everyone knows this but everyone says Dex is the way to go and it's super OP because you can like, bleed taurus demon, or something.

Dex is powerful despite some of its weapons using dumb limited mechanics like bleed. Curved swords are insane with buffs.

That guy didn't even use power within or hyper mode too. Ornstein barely had the time to do something before his demise from a basic attack spam.

Large STR weapons are the best for dealing with the world though, nothing beats pancaking mobs like the serpents of Sen when your mobility is so reduced by all the traps surrounding you.

Everything can be made quite viable in DS1 though bar some exotic shit. It's part of the charm of the game. Pure tank builds are also highly viable, although boring to play.
You can tank even Manus with a Greatshield.


or you die in one hit

Only if you run naked and never upgrade your hitpoints. There's not that many instances of genuine "I'm fucked for good" moments in DS1 if you put a decent amount of points in vit. Gravity is the top true instant killer, which is why Bed of Chaos is the most hated boss of the series by far.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
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I mean, buffs are pretty OP endgame, but try that shit with a normal character and it's a lot less impressive. They take forever to cast and don't last long. You don't really want to be running that build if you intend to kill everything while you're going through anor londo. You'll kill like maybe 2 knights before it wears off, and it's not like they help when you walk into a room without your buff on and something 3 feet away starts attacking you.

For a blind play, shields, poise, and poise damage are definitely the way to go. Reinforced club is retardedly good for what it is.
 
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I owe Dark Souls an apology. After reading you female dogs make fun of my Zweihander uber-build, and more importantly, seeing how easy it is in-game, I pined for the old days of challenging parry gameplay. So I loaded up my level 45 toon in the Catacombs, and decided to give parrying skellies a try again. And then, somewhere between being pwned for the 56th and 57th time, I finally figured out the issue with my parrying.

I was standing too far away from the other guy. I mean not very far, but I wasn't face hugging him either. I read somewhere way back that you need to face-hug for parries to work well, and I did that for a while, but got away from it. It wasn't much of an issue with less challenging mobs, maybe because it was easier to close distance with them without paying attention, but as soon as I started face-hugging skellies, my parries started working at a MUCH higher clip.

Face-hugged the Black Knight at the bottom of catacombs after that, and was able to parry him 3 times in a row, killing him. Before that, he killed me like 15 times. Got a nice Black Knight Axe too.

So I dunno what it is about face hugging, I guess at close range the parry detection by the game works better or something, but it definitely works.
 

L'Montes

Educated
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After reading you female dogs make fun of my Zweihander uber-build, and more importantly, seeing how easy it is in-game, I pined for the old days of challenging parry gameplay.

It was more like people thought you were trolling I think, since it's a large part of one of the most famous memes in the series history.



That said, I'd enjoy poise/armor gameplay in Dark Souls 1 if you like it. Poise is never again quite the same as it was back then.
 

Lutte

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That said, I'd enjoy poise/armor gameplay in Dark Souls 1 if you like it. Poise is never again quite the same as it was back then.
Probably because when poise still works (like Iron Flesh in DS3 which is short duration and not worth it against bosses that hit hard) it leads to things like this being viable :



Poise leads to too much facerolling. Heavy play was viable for the entirety of DS1 in a way that can be considered a built-in easy mode replacing difficulty sliders.

So I dunno what it is about face hugging, I guess at close range the parry detection by the game works better or something, but it definitely works.

Hitboxes are indeed very tiny for both the act of parrying, and also riposting. I've missed so many ripostes because I wasn't standing exactly the way the game wants to activate the riposte animation.. now that you know to parry, always remember to stick even closer if you feel you're not close. Need to give some hug before that r1 to get the nice riposte.
 
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Finally cleared out the Catacombs yesterday (well, at least all the stuff I could find, I am sure there are 50 other side tunnels I missed). After re-mastering parry, I did much better with skellies (was using a Divine Lucerne for them before), and then took out Pinwheel after only a few tries. Pretty cool fight, all his alts and the fireballs make things tense, but not too difficult. Found the undead blacksmith down there too, but not that damn sister thorolund, who the carim knight told me should be somewhere under the catacombs. No spoilers though.

Got a lot of loot down there too, Black Knight Greataxe, Scythe, Father's Mask, etc.

After that, went to New Londo Ruins again. Cleared out most of it. That one building with 400 ghosts is annoing af. If you try to draw them out in ones or twos, there's a 90% chance you will fall down into water and die, as between the targeting system and the way they move and fight, it's almost impossible not to fall off those damn walkways. If on the other hand, you run into the building, prepare to be attacked by all 40 at once, coming through the walls, which si also annoying af. I did manage to do it the second way finally, but took a lot of tries. A good 360 degree twirling weapon is essential. I was using my Divine Lucerne.
 

DemonKing

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If Pinwheel gave you trouble you're going to love the Tomb of the Giants...hope you have a light source.

I find it hard to believe people can play through Dark Souls without the aid of a walkthrough - there's so much stuff you can miss (like whole areas hidden behind secret doors or by carrying around obtuse objects in your inventory that were themselves located in obtuse locations) and so many things that you can do that will dramatically effect your game without the consequences being apparent when you make the decisions (like NPC interactions). Let's not even start on the more gimmicky bosses where most people would give up in frustration before working out how to beat them without a helping hand...
 

Wunderbar

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I find it hard to believe people can play through Dark Souls without the aid of a walkthrough - there's so much stuff you can miss (like whole areas hidden behind secret doors or by carrying around obtuse objects in your inventory that were themselves located in obtuse locations)
only two-three areas, and they are not neccesary to complete the game.

and so many things that you can do that will dramatically effect your game without the consequences being apparent when you make the decisions (like NPC interactions).
you can get most of content from NPCs if you aren't killing them straight away like some sociopathic dick. You can't manually save in this game, why would you kill someone friendly?

Let's not even start on the more gimmicky bosses where most people would give up in frustration before working out how to beat them without a helping hand...
Bed of Chaos is the only 100% gimmicky boss in the game, and it is pretty obvious how to kill it (glowing weakspots and cutscenes).
 

Raghar

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If Pinwheel gave you trouble you're going to love the Tomb of the Giants...hope you have a light source.

I find it hard to believe people can play through Dark Souls without the aid of a walkthrough - there's so much stuff you can miss (like whole areas hidden behind secret doors or by carrying around obtuse objects in your inventory that were themselves located in obtuse locations) and so many things that you can do that will dramatically effect your game without the consequences being apparent when you make the decisions (like NPC interactions). Let's not even start on the more gimmicky bosses where most people would give up in frustration before working out how to beat them without a helping hand...
I went into Tomb of Giants before I killed Gaping Dragon, and I didn't have light source. The first one I found was near my goal.

I also finished Dark Souls blind. (I just checked for possible bugs, so I knew Solaire can bug out near that area with bugs.) Getting to the crow was PITA however. Remembering to get to the crow was harder however. (I think I went there before Sen's fortres because Sen's fortres was PITA, and I wanted to look around.
 

DemonKing

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Getting to the crow was PITA however. Remembering to get to the crow was harder however. (I think I went there before Sen's fortres because Sen's fortres was PITA, and I wanted to look around.

Getting to the crow would never occur to most people playing blind, I guess, and Sen's Fortress is a complete PITA as you said given you can die in any number of arbitrary ways before you even get a chance to try and work out the boulder-rolling shenanigans...

I'm pretty sure I finished DS3 blind but I don't think I could have managed it with DS. Maybe it's down to being time poor but with a game this non-linear it definitely didn't hurt to get the occasional hint.
 

Raghar

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Getting to the crow was PITA however. Remembering to get to the crow was harder however. (I think I went there before Sen's fortres because Sen's fortres was PITA, and I wanted to look around.

Getting to the crow would never occur to most people playing blind, I guess,
Even if you are not curious about that big crow and its nest, the knight sitting near fire says something about the crow when you talk to him.
That crow flew off with
 

Atomkilla

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Getting to the crow was PITA however. Remembering to get to the crow was harder however. (I think I went there before Sen's fortres because Sen's fortres was PITA, and I wanted to look around.

Getting to the crow would never occur to most people playing blind, I guess,
Even if you are not curious about that big crow and its nest, the knight sitting near fire says something about the crow when you talk to him.
That crow flew off with


This is true, he hints at the fact that you can fly away with the Crow. In general, NPCs hint at a lot of things that you as a player can/should do. Problem is that some of their statements are often worded that way as to sound cryptic and downright confusing - which is one of the game's charms. To be honest, unless you write down notes while playing or have an exceptionally good memory, you are bound to overlook many of these hints. Only on subsequent playthroughs can you fully appreciate this sort of exposition.
In addition, missing things when going blind is one of the reasons Soapstone exists. Without other players' messages I would have easily missed some hidden walls, most importantly
Daughter of Chaos bonfire
(though in retrospect, that wall does stand out, but a lot of it boils down to your available time for playing and thorough exploring, as well as your alertness - when you defeat a boss at 3AM you don't really give a crap about hitting random walls, and after you wake up in the morning you've already forgotten about the possibility of them existing and just move on).
I'd also miss Ash Lake too. Double hidden wall? Yeah right.

But there are some really important things I'd completely miss out if I hadn't checked the wiki after completing the game.
Kaathe, above all. I usually leave Four Kings for the ending because New Londo Ruins is one of the more frustrating areas for me, and hadn't I read about the whole Lordvessel shenanigans thing, I'd never actually learn about him and immensely important lore stuff he explains.
 

Lutte

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Talking about Kaathe, in my last rerun of the game I thought I'd derp around a little as a dickwraith invader but when I met Kaathe after killing the four kings in my impatience not wanting to reread the dialogue again I was too fast and accidentally picked the dialogue option which pissed him off and lost the opportunity to become a dickwraith. I'm not a PVP fan and just wanted to dick around for a while so I wasn't going to make another char just for it or run NG+. Such is life in the world of Dark Souls. Permanent consequences are part of the charm.
 

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