From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[DragoFireheart]

That's the other nice thing about despawn: not having to kill the enemies again and again. I know in the Undead Burg in Dk1 you had to kill the enemies EVERY fucking time to have a duel for every time you died. There's lots of nice dueling areas once you rid some of the enemies from existence.

i did that in Kings Passage while farming for Llewelyn set. Now i just put there my red summon sign waiting for call from Mirror Knight or summon other players for duels

NG+ I assume?

Do you dress up as the Mirror Knight to troll people in that fight?

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

You dont have to be in ng+ to be summoned for that fight although you have to be in ng+ against MK if you want him to summon other players. So you are usually at the disadvantage going against players with ng+ stats/equipment. Still healing MK with Warm and buffing him with Chanellers Trident is worth it

People put on that ring that makes you look like a white Phantom for even bigger chaos but i stil have to go to crows for that drop. I put sometimes on Mirror Knight cosplay with his armour/shield/weapon but its better to have shit you use in PvP or like shirt that prevents backstabs. Couple times i got backstabed while area was still loading...fucking ps3

 

[Admiral jimbob]

I used loads of Bonfire Ascetics in places like the Shaded Ruins/Brightstone Cove to get Twinkling Titanite and Effigies before moving on to NG+

Then I found out that Bonfire Ascetic effects remain in place on NG+

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Yea, that's why the optimal places to make use of Ascetics need to be checked carefully, since you probably don't want to have difficulty spikes in places you aren't comfortable with. That said, the first Bonfire in Aldia's Keep and the Dragon Aerie bonfire are awesome for Ascetic use (though Aerie is a million times better due to having such awesome loot like Great Hero Souls, Phallus Cockstone, and all the mats).

 

[praetor]

:D

#1
Skill > equipment

#2
DeS was just as theme parky. Castle/Cave/Tower/Undead/Swamp. Dk1 was less theme parky but it was still theme parky. I think you're exaggerating Dk2.

#3
Alright, fair enough. Pick your poison #YOLO

#4
From sucks as balance yes, but they at least tried.

#1 well thank you captain obvious what i was trying to say is that levels will only help you so much if you suck at the game. plus, DaS2 just throws souls at you so those despawns aren't "to prevent soul farming". that's just a bullshit, made-up excuse. look at our resident OCD sperger, he reached SL188 in NG!

#2 definitely not as much as DaS2. both DeS and DaS1 had contiguous and rather consistent theme in their themeparkness (new word? ). DaS2 is just totally random. it's like taking a "world" from DeS and instead of making the levels a logical progression you just slap random ones together. they're even put together so that most of the time you can't even walk back even if you want to, you need to warp back (and the constant warping just accentuates the inconsistency). i may exaggerate the DaS2 themeparkiness, but it's by far the worst of the 3

#4 sorry, but i just can't see the "trying" part. f.e. MLGS was very powerful (but not quite unbalanced) and one of the top 3 or 5 weapons (i.e. the so called "god tier"... even after "the big greatsword nerf"), so in DaS2 what do they do? they make it upgradeable with Int infusions AND enchantable! that's not trying, that's just failing (not to mention the absolute, undeniable clusterfuck that is the game code)

(i still think it's a great game, i just don't think they really tried and Miyazaki's touch is definitely absent (or if it's there it's very minimal and/or he lost his touch ))

and how is the Lizard staff not worth it for a sorcerer? it's definitely a class above the basic sorc staff (and one below what you get in the later half) and you don't get anything better until the final third of the game, so what the fuck?

 

[DragoFireheart]

praetor

#1 So what you are saying is that it doesn't make a difference. Good players won't care about the despawns, bad players that rely on equipment and Soul Levels will be hampered, and OCD Lizard Staff farmers will rage quit.

#2. I'm going to disagree with you. It may be worse than Dk1 (not much) but it's so much less than DeS. DeS did in fact feel theme-parky because you had to go back to the The Nexus (park entrance) to reach other areas. At least with both DK games you can walk everywhere: DK2 just tries to remove some tedium by letting you warp from the get go.

#4. "Still too early to judge what's broken or not YOLO chilllax".

and how is the Lizard staff not worth it for a sorcerer? it's definitely a class above the basic sorc staff (and one below what you get in the later half) and you don't get anything better until the final third of the game, so what the fuck?

Because From doesn't want you to be a Sorcerer early on. They want you to be a Hexer.

 

[praetor]

fuck hexes. i'm not going the route that was DeS/DaS1 sorcery (i.e. pew pew boss dead let's move on)

#2. you can't walk everywhere. you can only warp. it's the most linear game in the franchise. you can open up a few areas at a certain point, but you're quite limited in what you can do/where you can go. compare to the DeS "go to any of the 5 worlds at any time" (other than 1-3 until you complete any world) or the truckload of areas you have access to at pretty much any time in DaS1 (especially at the beginning with the master key). it's rather boring

 

[DragoFireheart]

fuck hexes. i'm not going the route that was DeS/DaS1 sorcery (i.e. pew pew boss dead let's move on)

I hope you're joking. What the fuck do you think Sorcery is?

CHOOSE YOUR COLOR: black pew pew or blue/purple pew pew.

#2. you can't walk everywhere. you can only warp. it's the most linear game in the franchise. you can open up a few areas at a certain point, but you're quite limited in what you can do/where you can go. compare to the DeS "go to any of the 5 worlds at any time" (other than 1-3 until you complete any world) or the truckload of areas you have access to at pretty much any time in DaS1 (especially at the beginning with the master key). it's rather boring

What in the holy fuck are you talking about?

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

What in the holy fuck are you talking about?

he probably means that there are locations transitions like from Huntsman cope to Harvest Valley or Grave of Saints to the Gutter where once you drop form the ledge you cant go back until you find new bonfire.

 

[DragoFireheart]

he probably means that there are locations transitions like from Huntsman cope to Harvest Valley or Grave of Saints to the Gutter where once you drop form the ledge you cant go back until you find new bonfire.

Oh boo fucking hoo.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

You can make-do easily with various other staves until you get the Staff of Wisdom. Ultimately that's the only thing that matters, your final equipment of choice. For a stop-gap staff, you might as well just use Archdrake Staff which you can buy from Felkin really early (if you invest some Faith even if just by using a Soul Vessel), and later you can swap to Staff of Anime.

Also I'm really damn good at farming Souls and even better at NOT LOSING my Souls, that's why I finished with SL188, not because of despawning at every boss (heck, the only bosses I despawned at were Pursuer, Ruin Sentinels and Lost Sinner).

 

[praetor]

pic

and you can't go to half of them until you "find X". f.e. can't go to gutter/grave of saints until you buy the ring or get to Earthen peak and talk to Gillighan or can't go to Shaded woods until you find a fragrant branch. they spoke in interviews how they'll keep the progression somewhat gated like DaS1 by making enemies quite strong, but then they did it with unopenable doors (i guess more PR bullshit). and then after the 4 lord great souls, it's a very linear romp. sure, DaS1 did it too, but to a much lesser extent (and that stupid flowchart would look even more complex). again, just compare to where you can go from the get go in the 2 previous games (particularly DaS1 without killing a single boss)

he probably means that there are locations transitions like from Huntsman cope to Harvest Valley or Grave of Saints to the Gutter where once you drop form the ledge you cant go back until you find new bonfire.

i do. it just shows how little thought they put in the world design

You can make-do easily with various other staves until you get the Staff of Wisdom. Ultimately that's the only thing that matters, your final equipment of choice. For a stop-gap staff, you might as well just use Archdrake Staff which you can buy from Felkin really early (if you invest some Faith even if just by using a Soul Vessel), and later you can swap to Staff of Anime.

there are no "various staves" until shrine of animu. bone is almost exclusively hexing, witchtree requires considerable pain to get early (whole of gutter, half of gulch, 2 friggin giants to get the key), and for sorceries it's not an upgrade (it may even be a downgrade), both staves you can get from Felkin are for Hexing (with considerable fth requirement). the point was, which seems to be getting over your head, that for a SORCERER (as in someone focusing on the Int side of magic), you don't get a better staff (other than lizard) than the shitty starting one until the final third of the game.

Also I'm really damn good at farming Souls and even better at NOT LOSING my Souls, that's why I finished with SL188, not because of despawning at every boss (heck, the only bosses I despawned at were Pursuer, Ruin Sentinels and Lost Sinner).

i did not say you despawned anything. just pointed out that there's more than enough souls in the game even with the despawning. i didn't despawn anything and still was something like SL120 when i entered Drangleic (and i bought almost everything that i could). the dude that was streaming (kenneth something) before the game came out didn't despawn much (of what i saw), kept dying at bosses not caring about souls and still he levelled quickly. there's SHITLOADS of souls in the game, so the "we put in despawning to prevent soul farming" is blatant lying on their part. that's what i was getting at

DragoFireheart
i meant that with the power of Hexes bosses go down considerably easier and faster, comparable to DeS/DaS1 sorcery. i did not mean to say that sorcery was somehow different in the "pew pew" department, 'cause as you pointed out it's still pew pew just a different colour. poor choice of words on my part, sorry

 

[Jaedar]

I have a question again!

Ds1 was kinda linear, but with the master key you could go to every place except thru the golden fog doors and sens+anor londo from the start of the game. How does ds2 compare in terms of (non)linearity?

 

[DragoFireheart]

DragoFireheart
i meant that with the power of Hexes bosses go down considerably easier and faster, comparable to DeS/DaS1 sorcery. i did not mean to say that sorcery was somehow different in the "pew pew" department, 'cause as you pointed out it's still pew pew just a different colour. poor choice of words on my part, sorry

Oh, you don't want the power of darkness? Well From doesn't give a shit about you pansy Harry Potter wizard.

I have a question again!

Ds1 was kinda linear, but with the master key you could go to every place except thru the golden fog doors and sens+anor londo from the start of the game. How does ds2 compare in terms of (non)linearity?

You can go to every area if you play your cards right, though not as easily as you could with the Master key. Requires meta-knowledge and enough souls (which probably means killing a boss or two). It's still non-linear in this regard.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Point was that a newbie isn't going to gain any benefit at all from despawning if they just keep dying at the boss. DaS1 was far more lenient for attrition, most importantly because you didn't suffer considerably hp penalties for not-winning. In DaS2 the only one suffering from attrition is the player. So basically the only people who would notice despawning are those HORRIBLE newbies (who obviously shouldn't be allowed to have fun at all!), and to them it'd be a pyrrhic victory at best and most likely an active defeat because it hampers their ability to level up.

 

[praetor]

I have a question again!

Ds1 was kinda linear, but with the master key you could go to every place except thru the golden fog doors and sens+anor londo from the start of the game. How does ds2 compare in terms of (non)linearity?

it's way more linear than DaS1. instead of blocking paths with powerful enemies, they block them with doors for which you have to acquire certain items to unlock. there's a few places you can acquire said items/ways to progress, but one of the 2 paths is way less "optimal" so yeah. and then the second half is really linear (with a few small detours in a couple small side-areas)

 

[praetor]

Point was that a newbie isn't going to gain any benefit at all from despawning if they just keep dying at the boss. DaS1 was far more lenient for attrition, most importantly because you didn't suffer considerably hp penalties for not-winning. In DaS2 the only one suffering from attrition is the player. So basically the only people who would notice despawning are those HORRIBLE newbies (who obviously shouldn't be allowed to have fun at all!), and to them it'd be a pyrrhic victory at best and most likely an active defeat because it hampers their ability to level up.

as soon as you notice despawning (or you know beforehand), it's very easy to systematically depopulate the route to the boss without dying or keeping it to a minimum. and if they didn't get anything (as in no souls to level up) in 15 tries, having 100 more tries to try and "farm" (when it didn't work the first 15 times in the first place) isn't going to change anything. early on you get more than enough souls to level up from killing bosses alone and when souls from mobs start mattering even the crappiest player will have picked up a skill or two at the game. so that "horrible players will have it hardest because now they can't farm for souls" argument is pure bullshit

 

[DragoFireheart]

so that "horrible players will have it hardest because now they can't farm for souls" argument is pure bullshit

And if you're a good player you won't need to waste your time despawning them since you're doing a No Death/No Bonfire run.

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

limited respawns is definitely more streamlined. now everybody can finish the game through sheer attrition, and it only makes the game more frustrating for experienced players because some enemies drop useful shit for your build that can't be gotten elsewhere and at a certain point they stop spawning (yeah, farmed 2 more hours yesterday for the damned lizard staff.. still nothing. anybody care to trade for one?) and the drop tables are as full of bullshit as they were in DaS1 (thankfully nowhere near DeS level pure bladestone idiocy). warp anywhere is also definitely more casual and streamlined and made them uber lazy on the world design (which is complete shit), the new stunlock/poise so far is very reminiscent of the DeS idiocy (thankfully not as stupid) but considering their track record i have strong doubts they will fix it in any way, shape or form. dunno what he's on about the new upgrade system 'cause that one's a pretty cool addition and a welcome change (other than some bullshit combinations by infusing some special weapons, staves etc... yeah, looking at you magic infused MLGS + CMW. but hey, it's FROM, so any resemblance of balance is thrown out the window and the PvP will always revolve around 3-4 OP weapons/spells/rings. it's not better than DaS1 or DeS, just a different kind of unbalanced crap)

I hated the fact that you could take a weapon to +10 and then infuse that shit without losing the +10. You can just dick around with no consequence to your materials (which are way too plentiful anyway).

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

and you can't go to half of them until you "find X". f.e. can't go to gutter/grave of saints until you buy the ring or get to Earthen peak and talk to Gillighan or can't go to Shaded woods until you find a fragrant branch. they spoke in interviews how they'll keep the progression somewhat gated like DaS1 by making enemies quite strong, but then they did it with unopenable doors (i guess more PR bullshit). and then after the 4 lord great souls, it's a very linear romp. sure, DaS1 did it too, but to a much lesser extent (and that stupid flowchart would look even more complex). again, just compare to where you can go from the get go in the 2 previous games (particularly DaS1 without killing a single boss)

until you find couple thousand souls. really is that so restrictive?

2000souls for Lidia to go to Huntsman Cope and than to Harvest Valley-Earthern Peak-Iron Keep

or you could pay 13k souls for cat ring and go to Grave of Saints-Gutter-Black Gulch

You have at least 3 different roads to obtain Fragrant Branch and open up Shaded Woods(the only "artificial" barrier early on

or how to get to Last Sinner(and obtain Fragrant Branch):

Forest->(Last Giant+Pursuer)->Lost Bastille

Heides->Wharf->Lost Bastille

You can even skip entirely Royal Sentinels Battle

there are no "various staves" until shrine of animu. bone is almost exclusively hexing, witchtree requires considerable pain to get early (whole of gutter, half of gulch, 2 friggin giants to get the key), and for sorceries it's not an upgrade (it may even be a downgrade), both staves you can get from Felkin are for Hexing (with considerable fth requirement). the point was, which seems to be getting over your head, that for a SORCERER (as in someone focusing on the Int side of magic), you don't get a better staff (other than lizard) than the shitty starting one until the final third of the game.

You know powerful items tends to be late game drops
The fact is that starting staff is enough to beat the hole fucking game with no pain and From expects you to play in ng+, which even have absurd amount of exclusive drops/treasures.
Who the hell gets stuck in ng?

it's way more linear than DaS1. instead of blocking paths with powerful enemies, they block them with doors for which you have to acquire certain items to unlock. there's a few places you can acquire said items/ways to progress, but one of the 2 paths is way less "optimal" so yeah. and then the second half is really linear (with a few small detours in a couple small side-areas)

so how did you get to lost izalith or dukes without lords vessel? is there a trick to bypass those fucking yellow barriers?
because you can skip entirely 4 lords souls in ds2 and just get around 1milion of souls and shrine of winter will still open

and the only powerful enemy blocking you in ds1 that i can think of was Capra (to get key to depths) and Sif/4kings if you wanted early dickwraithing.

Obviously Undead Burg with it shortcuts and how it is placed between Anor Londo/Catacobms/Blightown and just the fact that you can see fucking Demons ruins/Ashen Lake from Catacombs makes DS1 superior to DS2 in world design.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I hated the fact that you could take a weapon to +10 and then infuse that shit without losing the +10. You can just dick around with no consequence to your materials (which are way too plentiful anyway).

I think this is a legitimate improvement. It cuts down on pointless faffing about and is the kind of streamlining that is completely good.

And mats aren't really that plentiful without the use of Ascetics, the entire game has around 2 items worth of Twinkling and 1-2 worth of Dragon Boners; regular titanite is readily available.

 

[Kanedias]

I believe this game is way, way less linear than Dark Souls 1. You can go absolutely anywhere, the requirements for going to "closed" areas are easily circumvented. The Cat Ring is really cheap, for example, just kill one boss and buy it with the souls.

 

[praetor]

until you find couple thousand souls. really is that so restrictive?

2000souls for Lidia to go to Huntsman Cope and than to Harvest Valley-Earthern Peak-Iron Keep

or you could pay 13k souls for cat ring and go to Grave of Saints-Gutter-Black Gulch

You have at least 3 different roads to obtain Fragrant Branch and open up Shaded Woods(the only "artificial" barrier early on

or how to get to Last Sinner(and obtain Fragrant Branch):

Forest->(Last Giant+Pursuer)->Lost Bastille

Heides->Wharf->Lost Bastille

You can even skip entirely Royal Sentinels Battle

as pointed out, you can't go to Shaded woods until you find a Fragrant branch in either Sinners rise, Harvest Valley (the most likely candidate for the vast majority of players, i'm betting) or Black gulch. and can't go to HV without Copse, and can't go to Copse without Heide (and then after you unlock the Shrine of winter/Drangleic castle it's a very linear romp). edit: yes, you can get to Bastille from one of 2 teleportation points, that's ok. and that's pretty much it

You know powerful items tends to be late game drops
The fact is that starting staff is enough to beat the hole fucking game with no pain and From expects you to play in ng+, which even have absurd amount of exclusive drops/treasures. Who the hell gets stuck in ng?

dear god i'm tired of explaining the same concepts again and again to the same fucking braindead retards. it's shitty item progression. for Hexers you get really good (and even the best shit) at the fucking start (you have the pick of 3 staves by Bastille), and miraclemen also get their fair share of chimes early on. learn to fucking read, imbecile

so how did you get to lost izalith or dukes without lords vessel? is there a trick to bypass those fucking yellow barriers?

i said as much, but apparently reading is teh hard for some people.

and the only powerful enemy blocking you in ds1 that i can think of was Capra (to get key to depths) and Sif/4kings if you wanted early dickwraithing.

dude, enemy not boss. count the number of areas you can explore before killing the first real boss in DaS1 (with the master key, of course). there's skellies to discourage you from entering the catacombs and ghosts in new londo, just to name a few

Obviously Undead Burg with it shortcuts and how it is placed between Anor Londo/Catacobms/Blightown and just the fact that you can see fucking Demons ruins/Ashen Lake from Catacombs makes DS1 superior to DS2 in world design.

do you have your retard diploma proudly hanging above your bed? please teach me how to be this stupid so i can read your posts without getting an aneurysm

 

[DragoFireheart]

I believe this game is way, way less linear than Dark Souls 1. You can go absolutely anywhere, the requirements for going to "closed" areas are easily circumvented. The Cat Ring is really cheap, for example, just kill one boss and buy it with the souls.

Same. I think praetor needs to remove those nostalgia goggles. Just because the Undead Parish/Burg had 4 different shortcuts doesn't make the game anymore or less linear.

 

[Kanedias]

In this mage playthrough I'm doing, I killed 3 other bosses before killing the first boss. I can go to the Gutter, Huntsman's Copse, Wharf, Bastille, or skip right to Sinner's Rise.

I kind of agree with sorcerer item progression, though. You have to keep the initial Sorcerer's Staff until the Copse, if you get the super rare lizard staff that is, and I think the next staff is in the Shrine of Amana, and that drop isn't too common either.

At least on my quality build I had a really good progression from Drangleic Sword -> Claymore -> Ruler's Sword, with Longsword -> Drakekeeper's Sword on the side, and also Shortbow -> Composite Bow. This is not the case with sorcerer staves.