From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[UndetectedButthurt]

NG+ challenge run is no match for an over-leveled Havexer Lancebro (minor save-scumming 'cause it's PC and I'm a casul)

Spoiler

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I don't really see how, say, Undead Burg, makes any more sense as a place people would actually live in than, say, No Man's Wharf. Or how 3-1 in DeS makes any more sense as a prison than Lost Bastille. Souls level design was always a bit abstract, and functional before realistic. Grand majority of environments in these games don't make much sense when you start thinking about it, they just look cool and play well.

So, again, I think this is a complaint about aesthetics by people who don't know what they truly dislike.

You're on an edge of making "it's all fantasy" argument. The reason why people didn't mind Lava level after Poison level in DS1 but can't get their heads around it in DS2 are not hard to understand, it's lack of connectivity and nonsensical geography in DS2. The lore plays a large part in it too, it's one thing to hear about Witches of Izalith somewhere in the movie and read about it, and then get to Izalith; or just take an elevator to a pit of magma with Diablo-juniour guarding his Diablo-dad. And whole DS2 is like that, it's a set of poorly connected vignettes which you remember because they have little photos in bonfire teleporting screen. In DS1 to get to a forest of trees holding the world you have to get deep into underground and climb down one of the trees itself; in DS2 that level would probably greet you after you have taken another elevator from some castle... hell, a thing like that does happen at some point, trying to mimic that feeling from DS1 with a well placed moment of silence and peace, but kinda fails because there are a ton of monsters and a boss around who punish you relentlessly.

I know a lot of people really like the universe and games and I don't want to shit on your happiness of getting another one, but why play Sawyer and tell people that they themselves don't know what they actually like or dislike? There's a lot of nonsensical stuff and odd little design decisions which together don't work that well. That video by a guy who, btw, also did a fairly good criticism of BioShock Infinite story, may be nitpicky, but many, if not all his points are valid.
Well except gender issues, cause nobody cares.

So, you basically agree with me that the level design itself is fine, and it's mostly the connective tissue that's subpar? That was the point I was making. Your criticism I can understand and agree with. My puzzlement stems from hearing that Demon's Souls had better level design as well, when that game was arguably even more arbitrarily fragmented (although at least it was honest about it) and very linear at many points.

The main problem, really, is the decision to make all bonfires warpable from the beginning. As soon as this was decided, From was absolved of the need to actually have reasonable world geometry. Thus, the "whoo metroidvania everything is connected" feeling that so many people loved about DaS1 was weakened, and I think that disappointment lies at the heart of a lot of complaints.

I'm still at the relative beginning of the game, and I can see how it could be disappointing to someone who expected an improvement to DaS1 in all areas. It is disappointing to me in some key aspects as well. But it does hold its own. I'm certainly having more fun with it than I had with Demon's Souls, and I still consider that an excellent game.

 

[aris]

Well on the upside I finally got muh sunlight spear! PRAISE THE SUN!

You know the guy for the pilgrims of the abyss covenant? The old man mumbling about the dark? Join his covenant and get to rank 3 in it. He gives you the best miracle catalyst in the game and the boss to get it is weak to lightning.

I can't join him though. Says that I'm not dark enough or something.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

Well on the upside I finally got muh sunlight spear! PRAISE THE SUN!

You know the guy for the pilgrims of the abyss covenant? The old man mumbling about the dark? Join his covenant and get to rank 3 in it. He gives you the best miracle catalyst in the game and the boss to get it is weak to lightning.

I can't join him though. Says that I'm not dark enough or something.

find him 2 more times in different locations. also dont mix him up with Felkin (guy sitting on a chair next to first bonfire in Huntsman Cope)

 

[DragoFireheart]

Well on the upside I finally got muh sunlight spear! PRAISE THE SUN!

You know the guy for the pilgrims of the abyss covenant? The old man mumbling about the dark? Join his covenant and get to rank 3 in it. He gives you the best miracle catalyst in the game and the boss to get it is weak to lightning.

I can't join him though. Says that I'm not dark enough or something.

Well become MOAR GRIM DARK also keep talking to him he gets around if you know what i mean.

 

[praetor]

I don't know. Unfortunately pyromancy requires stats to scale in this game, so if you want to use magic you'll have to use stat points. 22 points into faith for lightning spear is probably the best option, but I'm sure one of the console veterans can come up with something better.

while lightning is the best of the 3 with little stat investment (there's also a cool lightning axe, sword, lance and spear... all of which you can get relatively early), pyro doesn't require stats invested, although it does get a bonus from int+fth (although it's not that great) and no pyro spells have an int/fth requirement. plus, if you don't want to invest in Att for spell slots, there's a +2 slots ring you can get in the Shaded Woods (misty area) and the +3 is available from a NG+ boss (or ascetic the area). and upgrading the flame isn't that expensive, although you have to find the fire seeds to do it

 

[DragoFireheart]

while lightning is the best of the 3 with little stat investment (there's also a cool lightning axe, sword, lance and spear... all of which you can get relatively early), pyro doesn't require stats invested, although it does get a bonus from int+fth (although it's not that great) and no pyro spells have an int/fth requirement. plus, if you don't want to invest in Att for spell slots, there's a +2 slots ring you can get in the Shaded Woods (misty area) and the +3 is available from a NG+ boss (or ascetic the area). and upgrading the flame isn't that expensive, although you have to find the fire seeds to do it

I looked at the wiki on boss details and assuming it's not lying or false info about half of the bosses are weak to lightning (including Ancient Derp). I should make a third character a Cleric and nuke everything with Holy Lightning and Divine Flames to purify all that shit. Could be my Sunbro character.

Faith characters got a lot of love this game. Lots of good spells, lots of faith-weapons that are great, even a few boss weapons are awesome.

 

[aris]

Well on the upside I finally got muh sunlight spear! PRAISE THE SUN!

You know the guy for the pilgrims of the abyss covenant? The old man mumbling about the dark? Join his covenant and get to rank 3 in it. He gives you the best miracle catalyst in the game and the boss to get it is weak to lightning.

I can't join him though. Says that I'm not dark enough or something.

find him 2 more times in different locations. also dont mix him up with Felkin (guy sitting on a chair next to first bonfire in Huntsman Cope)

I have found him in two places, once under the gutter and once under draenglic castle, I believe.

 

[Surf Solar]

He's also in the shaded ruins

 

[Shadenuat]

So, you basically agree with me that the level design itself is fine, and it's mostly the connective tissue that's subpar?

They are pretty, but not all of them are fine. Some of them look rushed, with issues like enemies spawning near bonfires, or strange ambushes respawning on rest which you'd think were a one time deal (like a basilisk from ceiling). Some of them, I thought, were very boring. I can at least name two which I thought were plain bad. Tower of Flame had no variety in enemies whatsoever and was just a pale shadow compared to the grand Anor Londo, it's just a few platforms somehow holding together and one room with three dudes. And The Gutter is, again, a try on depths from DS1, but it's not a cave with wooden platforms and mixed natural elements and all the interesting stuff like elevators, but just wooden beams and bridges and wooden beams and wood wood wood God knows how held together, with weak enemies - just some zombies and dogs, then followed by corridor which is, sadly, a fairly common level design in DS2.

There's also a lot of "gotcha" moments, which DS1 of course had too, but in DS1 many of those were more of a plot feature, while in DS2 they seem to rise from level design itself, like how enemy packs are placed and how they aggro.

And I didn't even get to corridors, nay, just a Corridor, filled with trash mobs guarding boss gate... I can name at least three of those death tunnels, but you'll see them yourself anyway and probably would agree with me that that is more of a chore than challenge, and just an unelegant way to drain player of his resources and valuable time.

 

[DragoFireheart]

with issues like enemies spawning near bonfires,

No, that's almost certainly From trolling us.

 

[Jaedar]

I liked the gutter quite a lot towards the end actually. Bringing a torch and lighting all the sconces, gradually lighting up the entire area... it's nice. It's also the only time in DaS2 where I felt 'Oh so that's how this connects to that' in terms of level design.

Currently at Velstadt. What a shit boss. Random amounts of attacks in his combos, and a really boring grind to get to the boss fog.

Dammit, I already ate most of mine.

What were some of their names?

All of the early bosses. Saved all the great souls and onwards.

 

[DragoFireheart]

All of the early bosses. Saved all the great souls and onwards.

Not too bad. What did you do with the Dragonrider soul(s)?

 

[Shadenuat]

No, that's almost certainly From trolling us.

Aside from my own bellyfeels that Bonfires are supposed to be calm in the storm and place of security and peace ect, I still would say that bonfire near archers was just poorly, randomly placed. Heck, there are too many bonfires for such a small level to begin with. Where DS1 managed to do with just one, DS2 places three.

I liked the gutter quite a lot towards the end actually.

I liked what boss was doing with statues. That was one of the few my own moments of "oh, now that makes sense".

 

[DragoFireheart]

Aside from my own bellyfeels that Bonfires are supposed to be calm in the storm and place of security and peace ect, I still would say that bonfire near archers was just poorly, randomly placed. Heck, there are too many bonfires for such a small level to begin with. Where DS1 managed to do with just one, DS2 places three.

Probably because the levels were supposed to be darker so they act as places with light. Now that the dark mechanics were neutered there's no need for so many bonfires.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Currently at Velstadt. What a shit boss. Random amounts of attacks in his combos, and a really boring grind to get to the boss fog.

Actually getting the boss fog is pretty easy for Velstadt. There's a shortcut to the bonfire you can activate, and the mage spectres are spawned by a zombie ringing a bell. The only enemies you have to fight are the Royal Guards.

Aside from my own bellyfeels that Bonfires are supposed to be calm in the storm and place of security and peace ect, I still would say that bonfire near archers was just poorly, randomly placed. Heck, there are too many bonfires for such a small level to begin with. Where DS1 managed to do with just one, DS2 places three.

Probably because the levels were supposed to be darker so they act as places with light. Now that the dark mechanics were neutered there's no need for so many bonfires.

The more numerous bonfires make Ascetic use more pin-pointed tho, so I guess that's a plus. But regarding the Sinner's Rise bonfire with the archers, while badly placed there should be a bonfire somewhere around that spot given how much of a jog it's to reach that tower from Servants' Quarters bonfire.

 

[DragoFireheart]

The more numerous bonfires make Ascetic use more pin-pointed tho, so I guess that's a plus. But regarding the Sinner's Rise bonfire with the archers, while badly placed there should be a bonfire somewhere around that spot given how much of a jog it's to reach that tower from Servants' Quarters bonfire.

Huntman's Corpse (stfu that's how I call it!) has a bonfire under a bridge when... there's no reason to. It's retarded.

 

[praetor]

I looked at the wiki on boss details and assuming it's not lying or false info about half of the bosses are weak to lightning (including Ancient Derp). I should make a third character a Cleric and nuke everything with Holy Lightning and Divine Flames to purify all that shit. Could be my Sunbro character.

Faith characters got a lot of love this game. Lots of good spells, lots of faith-weapons that are great, even a few boss weapons are awesome.

lightning/fth is indeed pretty awesome. a bit too awesome. was just at the Throners and my Fth/Str bro and with my lightning dragonslayer axe +5 & sunlight spear even after the HP boost from summoning benhart and another useless dude was dealing something like 1/6-1/8 of the HP bar of the bosses. it was insane. i guess solo it would've taken me 4 swings to annihilate those 2 poor bastards. and (great/sunlight) lightning spear is indeed a boss killer. hexes still rule damage wise, but miracles aren't far behind and require less stat investment (plus you find the best chime [dragon is better but it requires 50fth] in lost bastille)

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

The more numerous bonfires make Ascetic use more pin-pointed tho, so I guess that's a plus. But regarding the Sinner's Rise bonfire with the archers, while badly placed there should be a bonfire somewhere around that spot given how much of a jog it's to reach that tower from Servants' Quarters bonfire.

Huntman's Corpse (stfu that's how I call it!) has a bonfire under a bridge when... there's no reason to. It's retarded.

When I first encountered that one, I figured it must have been due to the collapsed pillar platform next to it having a difficult jump, but a more indepth look at it made it clear the jump isn't possible. Personally I'd say the bonfire under the bridge is more necessary tho, so the one at the start of Copse could be done without.

 

[DragoFireheart]

(plus you find the best chime [dragon is better but it requires 50fth] in lost bastille)

What?

 

[praetor]

What?

priest's chime, infused with lightning, is the best sub 50fth miracle chime in the game. and it's found in lost bastille (after the boss)

 

[DragoFireheart]

What?

priest's chime, infused with lightning, is the best sub 50fth miracle chime in the game. and it's found in lost bastille (after the boss)

That early?

Man Sorcerer's got the shaft this game.

 

[praetor]

That early?

Man Sorcerer's got the shaft this game.

unless you get luck with the lizard staff... yeah

 

[DragoFireheart]

That early?

Man Sorcerer's got the shaft this game.

unless you get luck with the lizard staff... yeah

I blame Felkin.

 

[aris]

What?

priest's chime, infused with lightning, is the best sub 50fth miracle chime in the game. and it's found in lost bastille (after the boss)

Holy shit, I can infuse it with lightning. Didn't even realize I could do that, brb!