The most elegant proof that FO3 is a better RPG than FO1

[Jaime Lannister]

I think Irrational Games could have done a first-person Fallout game pretty well.

 

[Claw]

Which is the same thing. They both make things that would never happen in our world, happen.

How fucking ignorant do you have to be to argue something as commonly known and accepted as definition of fantasy and sci-fi?

Well, it is a valid viewpoint in general to say that sci-fi is Fantasy, especially the popular kind of sci-fi that is low on science and high on "cool" stuff.
However, it doesn't make any sense in the context, which is why I love the Elderscrollians so: Even when they - accidentally, no doubt - make a valid expression, they at least use it wrong.

 

[1eyedking]

Thoraxe_the_armored_orc: Really, F3 nails the roleplay element better then F1 and F2. Since when was the last time you lived life in Isometric view?

Motherfucking gold.

Also, not being able to walk (in only one camera mode) breaks the immershun in a game, but oddly enough waking NPCs from their sleep at 3:00 AM to ask for directions does not.

Gamers these days.

 

[Joe Krow]

It's a simple design choice.

It's more then that. For instance, explain how you would design a party based combat system in first person view that doesn't rely on annoying workarounds and laborious alternative methods when a couple of mouse clicks from a top down perspective could easily do the job.

Remember that most gamers today think of first person of view as an evolution, so it's not a question of choice but it's about supplanting one particular system and eliminating another under some hill conceived notion of interface progression with no consideration to what is being lost in the process.

I wouldn't call it an evolution but it certainly does come down to the designer's game play objectives. If, as they are with Fallout 3, they're going for a real time/single player rpg then the choice between perspectives is purely aesthetic. No major changes are needed to the rpg elements no matter which perspective is chosen. What do you imagine they would have to sacrifice?

Party based games are another matter. I agree with you on that. If the game is party based then first person combat is clearly an obsticle... you can only "see" through one set of eyes at a time after all. In real time the rest of the party would have to wait for you to switch to them or function via the AI. Neither option sounds appealing. Of course you could modify the interface to show all party members perspectives at once but in real time it would be virtually unplayable. Has the real time/ first person/ party based rpg ever been attempted? It'd be worth playing just to see how they dealt with this issue.

 

[Shagnak]

but oddly enough waking NPCs from their sleep at 3:00 AM to ask for directions does not.

I don't know about you, but I regularly break into strangers' houses, roust them from bed, and ask for directions to the nearest bar. If they don't help me out then they're not doing their bit for community relations.

 

[MetalCraze]

that quote in the original post is gold. well... but it's time to get used to average beth fanboy.

however I for one stand for the iso view.
really - one of the things we love in fallout so much is a SPECIAL system. because it's so nice and complex - and that iso view fits perfectly for SPECIAL rules - of combat f.e.

but you can't use special with a first person view - because it takes the player to lock on target and then press fire button - and that depends on your reaction etc. which makes for a twitch based gameplay. also - iso/fp view is the least important problem of F3 I'm afraid - when everything else looks like shit there...

 

[Joe Krow]

Bethesda should remake the original Fallouts with the Fallout 3 engine and package it with the game (the way Valve redid Half-Life). I have a feeling it would make arguments like this moot. Either that or, rest assured, the modders will do it with the tool set (provided there is one). It would give the new game more context and bridge the gap to the originals. Even if Bethesda later release them as expansions I would love to see Fallout 1 and 2 remade in the first person. Throw in a turn-based option and we're talking classic.

 

[1eyedking]

Bethesda should remake the original Fallouts with the Fallout 3 engine and package it with the game (the way Valve redid Half-Life). I have a feeling it would make arguments like this moot. Either that or, rest assured, the modders will do it with the tool set (provided there is one). It would give the new game more context and bridge the gap to the originals. Even if Bethesda later release them as expansions I would love to see Fallout 1 and 2 remade in the first person. Throw in a turn-based option and we're talking classic.

No, thank you.

 

[Callaxes]

You know... he's right there - Fallout only worked for helicopter pilots with mind control devices, but not everyone is that SPECIAL!

 

[Joe Krow]

but you can't use special with a first person view - because it takes the player to lock on target and then press fire button - and that depends on your reaction etc. which makes for a twitch based game play.

Err... OK. I guess it doesn't matter that the same would hold true in an ISO game.

HINT: Perspective is not the issue.

 

[Durwyn]

Please make Geralt "walk" in OTS view possible!!...
And if you want always run there are other games like "Sonic, Mario Bross, or others Kevin games" lol!!! to not understand this demand means to not understand the essence of a RPG.

Priceless... Reserved for signature.

 

[1eyedking]

but oddly enough waking NPCs from their sleep at 3:00 AM to ask for directions does not.

I don't know about you, but I regularly break into strangers' houses, roust them from bed, and ask for directions to the nearest bar. If they don't help me out then they're not doing their bit for community relations.

I hold nothing against being able to break into stranger's houses, but the fact that NPCs take no action against this kind of obnoxious behavior is what breaks the spell.

I doubt those people you rousted were too happy about it unless they were drunk. Or stoned.

 

[Shagnak]

I doubt those people you rousted were too happy about it unless they were drunk. Or stoned.

They did it for the love of Mother Aotearoa, with a blissfully happy demeanour I might add, otherwise they'd get reported and marched off by the Gulag.

 

[1eyedking]

I doubt those people you rousted were too happy about it unless they were drunk. Or stoned.

They did it for the love of Mother Aotearoa, with a blissfully happy demeanour I might add, otherwise they'd get reported and marched off by the Gulag.

Or oppressed.

 

[Texas Red]

Please make Geralt "walk" in OTS view possible!!...
And if you want always run there are other games like "Sonic, Mario Bross, or others Kevin games" lol!!! to not understand this demand means to not understand the essence of a RPG.

Priceless... Reserved for signature.

Theres something funny and ironic about the burning hatred of RPGers for these game LARPers.

 

[Claw]

Bethesda should remake the original Fallouts with the Fallout 3 engine and package it with the game (the way Valve redid Half-Life).

No, Bethesda should remake Fallout 3 using the FO2 engine and package it with the game, if only to prove beyond doubt how shitty their game will be regardless of perspective.

 

[dragonfk]

Finally something signature worthy :

Really, F3 nails the roleplay element better then F1 and F2. Since when was the last time you lived life in Isometric view?

 

[Top Hat]

Mother Aotearoa

http://www.spacer.com/images/helen-clark-bg.jpg

Definitely NSFW.

 

[Xi]

Man, these people are so worthless. I don't even know why I try anymore? I think I need to listen to Jasede's wisdom on this one. It's pure dumbfuckery to continue on. Feels like your in a race moving in the wrong direction. Tiring as hell.

 

[Ion Flux]

I had an out of body experience once after inhaling nitrous oxide. Does that count?

 

[MetalCraze]

HINT: Perspective is not the issue.

it is - at least for me. and btw Menzoberanzzan (or how you spell it) is a good example of how first person view is unsuitable for the dnd ruleset. you see - the combat there still was pseudo-real-time (like in BG). so imagine getting a situation where you're attacked from both sides by goblins. first you have turn to the first of them - click on him to strike him - then turn to the other side and use some spell on another one. and while you're turning around they are still attacking you using dnd rules. so it was an awful experience.
so the thing is - either they will do the same shit in F3 - because SPECIAL is pretty much the same table-top ruleset, or they will mess SPECIAL. and they actually do the latter one (damage per second wtf?). so you see - one issue brings another one.


I actually wouldn't mind a free-exploration action game in a fallout universe. but stop selling it to me like it's the sequel to the rpgs and also messing with the lore by doing knights vs orcs bs.

 

[Joe Krow]

Yack yack yack. You're all full of shit.

I'm still waiting for someone to give one example of how perspective makes any difference at all in a real time/single character rpg (such as FO3). So far all I'm hearing is random moaning and flawed logic. What specifically do you lose between the two perspectives? The answer is nothing. It's strictly a preference thing. You could at least give some of the "because that's the way it was before" irrelevance. Most idiots will accept that argument.

While we're at it. Take the "the player decides the character acts" nonsense and stick it up your ass. Did you ever play a game (of any kind) where the player didn't decide? Me neither. This BS always comes from the same crowd that thinks "choice and consequences" are the heart of an rpg despite the fact that the best games in the genre don't have them at all. Someone should explain to them that the combat in the worst action rpg is more character dependent then 99% of the dialogue trees in your so called "true" rpgs. You want to take the players abilities out of the equation? Don't play a C&C rpg then.

What sucks most of all is that the kiddie gamers and the choice and consequence types are two sides of the same retarded coin (yes, I called you a retarded coin). We need a return to the true old school. Fuck Fallout. Fuck Planescape. And Fuck Arcanum. If that were the only version of the rpg the genre would be in worse shape then it is.

 

[Brother None]

I'm still waiting for someone to give one example of how perspective makes any difference at all in a real time/single character rpg (such as FO3).

Uh, you already narrowed the definition field to real time there. The whole advantage to bird's eye view is that it works elegantly well with turn-based combat.

Other than that, indeed, the view doesn't matter.

Can't make much of the rest of your post, it looks like you're about to cry, so I'll just leave you be.

 

[Joe Krow]

Fallout 3 is going to be real time, no?

As far as getting me a tissue... I'm cool. I just get tired of the same gaggle of twerps spouting off about things they know fuck all about.

"Oh, these kids just don't get it. Aren't I the shit?" ... it gets old.

 

[1eyedking]

Imagine they made the next Half-Life isometric and turn-based.
Imagine they made the next Diablo an FPS with long, branching quests and dialogues.
Or the next Wizardry a top-down platform game.

That 'Half-Life' wouldn't be Half-Life, that 'Diablo' wouldn't be Diablo, 'Wizardry' wouldn't be Wizardry. We've ended up with something different.

Or imagine Rowling decides to go dadaist on her Harry Potter books all of a sudden. Well, you get the idea.

I'm still waiting for someone to give one example of how perspective makes any difference at all in a real time/single character rpg (such as FO3)

What the f...? What do you mean it doesn't make any difference? It makes all the difference! In first person you can't see what's going on behind you nor beside you. You have to walk and guide your character through every fucking turn and niche of the dungeon/village to get to a certain destination (lest you add dumbfucked features like fast-travel, and still you'd have to press 'W' a lot). You can't multitask. You get an awkward control/interface scheme for using skills, spells, and the such. You have to search for items manually. And then there's combat, akin to playing a miniature wargame with a 120° angle line-of-sight.

More immersion you say? Fuck immersion! Let me use my fucking imagination, and give me more functionality, a better interface, and a wider degree of game mechanics.