Interview The Pleasures of Age of Decadence at RPS

[Hümmelgümpf]

Can we get this outfit in the game?

Box art:

Puts a new spin on the title, doesn't it?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I think Vault Dwellers arrogance is directed at you and the ones that think that baldurs gate 2 was actually a role playing game.

FYI and the rest of the idiots on these forums who believe so, BG has stats that affect the outcome of many actions.

Examples please.

Interviews are great, but I want to actually play this thing already. I'm getting a bit sick of the drip-feeding of info.

That's the problem with hyping something too much, it gets to the point where you're sick of the game before you've even played it.

Then don't play it. Simple solutions for simple problems.

Although i agree with his tastes and will definitely get this game, saying that a game is only an RPG if it has choices and consequences is a bit silly. Very few games before Fallout did it, and classic titles like the Might and Magic and Wizardry or Eye of the Beholder series had none. They were mostly dungeon hacks.

This historical use of RPG is rarely addressed in discussions here and I think it needs more attention. It's well and good to design the type of RPG you want Dweller, and I'd say it's superior to the other types. However, you can't just make the game you want and stamp it the one true word of RPGod anymore than Bioware can call Mass Effect the archetype of RPGs.

I think Iron Tower is at the helm of a redefinition of what RPG means, and I would love for them lead more intelligently than picking games 90% of players would identify as RPG and saying "it's not an RPG." As a vice-president of marketing I’m sure you can come up with something descriptive that is just as fresh as your game design. Instead describe Age of Decadence as having C&C gameplay opposed to Oblivion's sandbox gameplay. Or if Fable is player-centered then say AOD is setting-centered. I just don't see the advantage of stamping your game RPG like everyone else but insisting ‘we really mean it,’ except to ameliorate years of gaming bitterness.

Why invent new words for old concepts? I had a similar discussion on NMA yesterday. From my post in response to "choice & consequence, multiple solutions are a very modern thing."

http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/static/ ... mOZINp.php

"Ultima 5-Lazarus stands on its own ... This game is so complex and absorbing that little else on the market can come close. If all you want to do is run around killing things, then this is probably not the game for you. However, if you enjoy a detailed and thoughtful story chock full of real choices and consequences..."

Yep. All old RPGs were hack-n-slash. No choices & consequences whatsoever.

http://www.atarimagazines.com/compute/i ... klands.php

"You get many such CHOICES throughout the game, and the decisions made from these CHOICES determine not only where the character goes and his or her success or failure, but also the plot's texture, flavor, and nuances.

The real beauty of the Darklands epic is the multitude of CHOICES you get, which surpass the complexity and historical accuracy seen in any other contemporary computer game. The true role-playing enthusiast will be dazzled by the game's sheer volume of CHOICES and historically accurate situations. "

http://anarchy.c0ck.org/game/darklands

"But the freedom and amount of choices is astounding."

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9145

"You can really play a character however you want, being as good or evil as you like and your choices have a clear and visible impact on the game world. "

Darklands. 1992. You were saying?

Just VD's way of trolling, and it works. It also proves that he's a liar at the level of Bethesda and Troika. R00fles!

I learned from the best, Volly. *bows

 

[BearBomber]

*bows

Fucking japanese anime JRPG spy!

CRUSH KILLL DESTROY
CRUSH KILLL DESTROY
CRUSH KILLL DESTROY
CRUSH KILLL DESTROY
CRUSH KILLL DESTROY
CRUSH KILLL DESTROY
CRUSH KILLL DESTROY
CRUSH KILLL DESTROY
CRUSH KILLL DESTROY
CRUSH KILLL DESTROY
CRUSH KILLL DESTROY

 

[Forest Dweller]

Alright VD I'm going to throw a couple of names out here.

Jade Empire
Gothic
STALKER
Morrowind

All games with minimal C&C. Could you add BG2 to the list and rank them in terms of C&C?

Thanks.

 

[denizsi]

Make love, not war.

 

[The Feral Kid]

I think Vault Dwellers arrogance is directed at you and the ones that think that baldurs gate 2 was actually a role playing game.

FYI and the rest of the idiots on these forums who believe so, BG has stats that affect the outcome of many actions.

Examples please.

Skill checks and saving throws. Spell memorizing, potency and casting.

 

[elander_]

What are real choices and consequences? I would say that a dialog choice that gives you an insightful reaction, information or something that gives you some edge, even if it's just for one quest has some usefulness and makes the game more interesting.

 

[RuySan]

So, acording to VD, the only RPG's that existed before Fallout were Darklands and the Ultima series. So, the SSI and Wizardry games weren't. How to classify them, then?

Not that i care, because you, Vault Dweller, are wrong.

 

[ghostdog]

What are real choices and consequences? I would say that a dialog choice that gives you an insightful reaction, information or something that gives you some edge, even if it's just for one quest has some usefulness and makes the game more interesting.

This is the best example of C&C I can give you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8K87H3T1UU

 

[Shannow]

All of BG is stat dependant. Take a warrior. Make one roll at char creation. Accept whatever crappy stats you get. Min-max so that all your points are in Charisma, Wis and Int. Try to play the game.
Do another warrior. Take the best out of 50 stat rolls. Min-max with the focus on str, con, dex. Play the game and come back telling us that BG isn't stat dependant

Volly is exactly right. BG is an RPG. Whether it is a good RPG is for everyone to decide for themselves.

Why invent new words for old concepts? I had a similar discussion on NMA yesterday. From my post in response to "choice & consequence, multiple solutions are a very modern thing."

You give two examples. I'm pretty sure you'll have problems finding many more. Most of the other pre-FO RPGs were dungeon-hackers with stats. Also labeled RPGs. You should accept that the RPG label is and always has been broader than your definition. And what is so bad about Chambers' suggestion? If there can be a-RPGs there could also be story-RPGs, hardcore-RPGs, etc.

 

[Wyrmlord]

VD, Ultima V and Darklands are isolated examples. And you are completely pushing aside the games that inspired them, the games that existed before, and the games that pushed the genre in the first place.

Besides, if stories and choices were central to them -

why did they also have combat and entire combat systems? Why did they have combat at all?

Why this concession to the style of all those other hack and slash games? Maybe because they were based on being like them? Maybe because the mechanics of those hack and slash games were essential to them?

 

[Jaesun]

jebus fucking Christmas. Not another BG2 discussion.

Anyways...

We were offered a good publishing deal by a large North American publisher, although I’m not sure if that’s the direction we’d take.

So.... did the publisher want you to make some changes or was it just not a good deal?

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Can we get this outfit in the game?

It would have been the USS Tugboat that night.

As for the topic, VD can say whatever he likes. As long as there is a decent combat system in place, and it looks like that is what is happening, he can tell me the Sun will crash into the Moon for all I care. Needless to say, I disagree with him on the question of what is and is not an RPG.

There are many subsets of the genre, one of which is the CnC type including Arcanum as its true figurehead (for now). The main problem is not what is an RPG, but that the types of RPG on the market are so limited at the moment. Action RPG's by the bucketload basically. Very boring.

Get back to work VD and get the game done.

 

[elander_]

This is the best example of C&C I can give you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8K87H3T1UU

I guess if someone would take that movie clip as inspiration for a game scene, being able to decide if you would like to surrender to a guy who is taking hostages or shoot him right on the head would create a different set of interesting possibilities to role-play, even if those choices would not extend beyond that particular quest. Your point is?

Volly is exactly right. BG is an RPG. Whether it is a good RPG is for everyone to decide for themselves.

BG2 has a different model of role-playing. Yes *gasp* there is more than one way to create a role-playing environment *sacrilege*. While Fallout and Arcanum limit c&c to each location, BG2 limits them to each chapter.

 

[denizsi]

Threads like this fill me with good feelings, that it's not just my fellow average countrymen who would be the most shallow and mediocre people capable of saying irrelevant things like

And you are completely pushing aside the games that inspired them, the games that existed before, and the games that pushed the genre in the first place.

but apparently, are not.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Alright VD I'm going to throw a couple of names out here.

Jade Empire
Gothic
STALKER
Morrowind

All games with minimal C&C. Could you add BG2 to the list and rank them in terms of C&C?

Thanks.

Didn't play Stalker. As for the rest, from the lowest to the highest:

BG2 - MW - Gothic - Jade Empire

 

[Talby]

Then don't play it. Simple solutions for simple problems.

Nah, I'm still going to buy it. If I paid for Morrowind I can pay for AoD.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I think Vault Dwellers arrogance is directed at you and the ones that think that baldurs gate 2 was actually a role playing game.

FYI and the rest of the idiots on these forums who believe so, BG has stats that affect the outcome of many actions.

Examples please.

Skill checks and saving throws. Spell memorizing, potency and casting.

...

So, acording to VD, the only RPG's that existed before Fallout were Darklands and the Ultima series.

That's what I said?

So, the SSI and Wizardry games weren't. How to classify them, then?

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/in ... opic=198.0

Not that i care, because you, Vault Dweller, are wrong.

Good to know.

All of BG is stat dependant. Take a warrior. Make one roll at char creation. Accept whatever crappy stats you get. Min-max so that all your points are in Charisma, Wis and Int. Try to play the game.
Do another warrior. Take the best out of 50 stat rolls. Min-max with the focus on str, con, dex. Play the game and come back telling us that BG isn't stat dependant

Did someone say it's not stat-based?

 

[Forest Dweller]

Alright VD I'm going to throw a couple of names out here.

Jade Empire
Gothic
STALKER
Morrowind

All games with minimal C&C. Could you add BG2 to the list and rank them in terms of C&C?

Thanks.

Didn't play Stalker. As for the rest, from the lowest to the highest:

BG2 - MW - Gothic - Jade Empire

Oh wow...Anyone want to refute this?

Minus BG2, that IS how I would have ordered them.

 

[The Feral Kid]

I think Vault Dwellers arrogance is directed at you and the ones that think that baldurs gate 2 was actually a role playing game.

FYI and the rest of the idiots on these forums who believe so, BG has stats that affect the outcome of many actions.

Examples please.

Skill checks and saving throws. Spell memorizing, potency and casting.

...

Sure yes why bother with these, they're not "real" rpg elements are they? They're taken for granted.

Interesting use of double standard there, nice work...I'm sure nobody noticed.

 

[Vault Dweller]

What double standards? If you must have the answer, here it is: stats always have some effect on gameplay. For example, upgrading your health in Prince of Persia allows you to last longer in fights and like totally changes the way you play the game.

Is there any REAL difference between two different BG2 parties (other than party banter and party members' quests)? Saving throws, numbers of spells, THAC0, whatever. In the end, they will do exactly the same shit, will follow exactly the same path and all their savings throws and THAC0s really affect is how many times you'd have to reload before you beat another group of monsters.

Does that really qualify for "different experience" these days?

 

[Vault Dweller]

As for the topic, VD can say whatever he likes. As long as there is a decent combat system in place, and it looks like that is what is happening, he can tell me the Sun will crash into the Moon for all I care.

It was supposed to be a surprise, you jerk!

Needless to say, I disagree with him on the question of what is and is not an RPG.

By all means. I've offered my opinion, which didn't change in the last 5 years. Someone has a different opinion? On teh intarnets? I believe it not!

 

[Volourn]

"Volly is exactly right. BG is an RPG. Whether it is a good RPG is for everyone to decide for themselves."

Game over.



"BG2 - MW - Gothic - Jade Empire"

MW, or Gothic do NOT have more role-playing than BG2. Still, even if it has the lowest C&C, it doesn't mean it ha snone nor does it make it a 'non RPG'.


"Is there any REAL difference between two different BG2 partie"

Absolutely there is.



"(other than party banter and party members' quests)?"

You just fuckled up here. This alone proves that there is C&C. The game plays out differently depending with what you play and how you play.

Seriously, you know are full of shit. It's embarassing.

 

[hiver]

Does that really qualify for "different experience" these days?

I would tell you but... its better that you dont know.

 

[Vault Dweller]

"BG2 - MW - Gothic - Jade Empire"

MW, or Gothic do NOT have more role-playing than BG2.

I'm afraid they do, Volly. I can't hide it from you any longer.

"Is there any REAL difference between two different BG2 partie"

Absolutely there is.

But it's a secret, right? Only a chosen one like you can see it?

"(other than party banter and party members' quests)?"

You just fuckled up here. This alone proves that there is C&C. The game plays out differently depending with what you play and how you play.

Different party members rank on the "choices & consequences" scale somewhere between "I can use different weapons, spells, and class abilities to kill enemies!" and "I can do side quests in any order OR ... not do them AT ALL!!!"