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The PS5 and Xbox 2 thread - it's happening

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Makabb, Mar 22, 2018.

  1. tritosine2k Liturgist

    tritosine2k
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    Lockhart might be a red herring if Apple is really an entrant in November with a Shield like offer then someones breakfast gets ready to be eaten as we speak.
    Afaict at one half of 1650-1660ti perf level it won't be too bad and that's a rather apt comparison than current gen consoles with subpar cpu.
     
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  2. Wunderbar Arcane

    Wunderbar
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    it's a good thing.
    Devs won't put this power to good use anyway, maybe restrictions will force them to be inventive.
     
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  3. aweigh Arcane

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    that should've said "as Dalek says". heh. with the type it made it sound like i disagreed.

    anyway, yeah restrictions are good. Besides all of the new tech power will be wasted trying to get stable framerates with Ray Tracing, so whatever.
     
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  4. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    At first I thought they should just make the One X the new base machine and have that with the Series X. Sort of a iPhone 7, 8 and 9 type of situation where a game will stop supporting the 7. However I'm pretty sure the processor is pretty blah, and crappy processors are a big thing holding current games back.

    If the Series S or whatever has a similar processor to the Series X then maybe their selling point will be 1080p vs. 4k and ray tracing vs. SSAO, stuff that is more GPU focused. They'll already be making those kinds of alternatives for lower spec PCs and whatnot.
     
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  5. Markman da Blitz master Patron

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    Serpent in the Staglands Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Looks too good to be true, tbh.

     
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  6. taxalot Gone forever. Patron

    taxalot
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    So which is it ?

    Lockhart is so crappy that no one will get it, or Lockhart is actually nice enough and no one will care about the XseX ?
     
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  7. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    Supports raytracing... I mean, a GTX 1060 does too I believe, but good luck running anything with it.

    If the processor, memory and SSD are similar then it might be a 1080p30 versus 4k60 kind of dynamic like I mentioned above, without damaging fundamental design too much. We're all just guessing until we know more though. I find it hard to believe that simply changing the GPU could let them go down from a super expensive machine to a much more affordable one.
     
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  8. AwesomeButton Cut a deal with the authorities Patron

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    I guess you could run raytraced Minecraft :D
     
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  9. mk0 Literate

    mk0
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    Well it has to have the same basic feature set(CPU, SSD, RTX) to be compatible with Series X, so nothing surprising there.

    Cutting down on GPU Compute Units(CU) lets them reduce the overall die size of the SoC which improves yields and lowers cost, smaller chip = more usable chips salvaged from die wafers. The XSX has a die size of around 360 mm² of which most is comprised of CUs, so far it's the largest and most expensive consumer-oriented product made on TSMC's 7nm node, the runner-up is AMD's Navi GPU(5700xt 399$ MSRP) which is only 251 mm². Having less GDDR6 memory chips also makes a big difference.
     
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  10. mk0 Literate

    mk0
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    We can do some quick math to speculate how the Series S will turn out, excuse my autism.

    If the CPU portion of Series X is 120mm²(80mm² CPU cluster + 40mm² for I/O) then the GPU+RTX portion is 240mm², so 360mm² total. If we cut the GPU portion down to a third(12TF->4TF), we get 80mm²~, therefore the total die size for Series S with the CPU would be around 120mm²+80mm²=200mm². That's larger than the 5500XT(200$) but smaller than the 5600XT/5700XT(300$-400$, these two GPUs use the same die), that's some pretty good cost savings.

    Next is the memory portion. The Series X has 16GB of GDDR6 with a split memory pool, 10GB at 560@GB/s and 6GB@336GB/s, 2.5GB from the slower pool is dedicated to the OS leaving 13.5GB. The Series S will instead have 10GB with 7.5GB left after OS. I'm too lazy to try and figure out memory buses for bandwidth, forgive me.

    Here's something interesting to think about, if developers decide to fill the entirety of Series X's slower "system" memory pool and leave the other 10GB purely for textures, you end up in bit of a pickle on the Series S. From 10GB of GDDR6 you take out 2.5GB for OS and 3.5GB for system pool and you're only left with 4GB for textures. :lol:

    399$ for Series S seems like a realistic price point. GPU is worth around 150-200$, CPU and SSD are expensive but economies of scale will give some leeway on that front.

    Edit: I fucked up, 5500XT is 157mm² and that's 4,7TF. However unlike the desktop Zen 2 which has more die space dedicated to L3 cache, the consoles will have less L3 cache like the mobile Zen 2 APUs to cut down costs. So my point still stands I guess?
     
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  11. tritosine2k Liturgist

    tritosine2k
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    Someone sounds woefully worried:lol:
     
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  12. AwesomeButton Cut a deal with the authorities Patron

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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    i'm so glad since I switched from an iPad to a Samsung Tab S6. No iOS devices at home any more.

     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020 at 1:27 PM
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  13. TemplarGR Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Bethestard

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    The way RTX does raytracing is kinda retarded to be honest. Next gen raytracing is going to be much more efficient than that. It will also utilize cpu cores and won't run on gpus alone. Let us wait for the hardware to arrive at our hands before we jump to conclusions.
     
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  14. aweigh Arcane

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    My RTX 2070 gets around 45-50fps in Quake 2 RTX with default settings at 1080p; reducing the resolution scale to 90% brings it up to 60fps.

    So far that has been my only exposure to ray tracing and :shrug: it was alright. Yeah, it looks pretty but I wasn't blown away. At all.

    Hell, I think Kingdom Come: Deliverance has ten times better lighting, even if it isn't real-time like the RT lighting in Quake 2.

    EDIT: Been meaning to try out Minecraft RTX to test it but I don't want to spend money on it, since I don't really have any interest in playing it.
     
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  15. AwesomeButton Cut a deal with the authorities Patron

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    The difference between non-RTX and RTX Shadow of the Tomb Raider is pretty serious IMO. Try that.

    Also, I'm thinking Cyberpunk will play the decisive part in turning RTX into a mainstream feature, it's just a perfect playground for RTX. After it RTX will become a standard in AAA shit at least.
     
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  16. TemplarGR Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Bethestard

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    RTX will not become a mainstream feature because it is an Nvidia gimmick. Proper raytracing will be handled by Vulkan and D3D12 when the time comes. RTX is shit, it uses too many resources for a mediocre effect.

    Raytracing will never become mainstream if you have to spend 600 euros or more for barely decent 1080p performance. It's not happening.
     
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  17. AwesomeButton Cut a deal with the authorities Patron

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    Just quoting to keep this post handy.
     
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  18. TemplarGR Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Bethestard

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    This is not 2014, so crapworks (tm) is not going to be repeated this time. The main benefit and reason to use raytracing is that it is far less work for the developer. Seriously. They don't need nvidia's "help" to do raytracing, so Nvidia "gifting" them a blackbox with nvidia optimized effects and telling them to use it instead of developing their engine themselves, like they did with shitworks(tm), ain't happening.

    D3D12 raytracing already exists. It is called D3D12 Ultimate. And AMD gpus that will land in a few months are going to support it, alongside the Vulkan equivalent extensions. Also Intel is releasing GPUs soon and they are also going to be supporting D3D12 and Vulkan. So RTX is dead in the water, no developer is going to use an Nvidia-only solution unless they get "incentivized" (=BRIBED) to do so. Nvidia do have money but can't bribe everyone.
     
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  19. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    It's purely for tech fetishists in Quake 2 I think. It looks aesthetically worse than the original IMO, it's just neat to see a fully ray traced game from the top down for people into tech like that. Control's reflections and Metro 3's global illumination are the two that sell what the tech can do, IMO. Control looks so much better with it on I felt pretty bad turning it off so I could play in native res at 60fps.

    Someone just said this elsewhere, maybe it was you I dunno, but this is the opposite of what pretty much every tech site has said. I've watched comparison videos and rundowns on it and they all pretty much agree they look worse than normal ultra shadows due to their draw-in being too close to the camera and the effect itself being only meh. I own the game though, so I'll see myself eventually I guess.
     
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  20. AwesomeButton Cut a deal with the authorities Patron

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    It was me :) And I said it after watching Digital Foundry interview with the programmers who implemented RTX in Shadows, it's a 50 minute video full of examples.
     
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  21. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    It's the pop-in I saw most other channels complaining about, and I saw some videos where ultra shadows had zero pop-in at all but RTX shadows drew in very obviously not far from the player. Pop-in is one of my major pet peeves with graphics, so I doubt I could enjoy them for that reason. But obviously I'll give them a shot.
     
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  22. cosmicray Learned

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    I wouldn't mind sharping since it won't change the aesthetic much, but why on earth remastered releases are going through "teal & orange" travesty is beyond me.
     
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  23. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    Teal was more prevalent in the old days than people think, because fluorescent lights show up as teal on film. DVD masters had a warm push to color grades usually, to counteract TVs of the time having super cool color temperatures. You're not wrong though that many remasters add extra teal and orange, because they think it's more "modern." Even geniuses like William Friedkin and Michael Mann have directly said they added teal to their movies to make them feel more like movies made today. It's baffling.
     
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  24. Tehdagah Arcane

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    Apparently some games will cost $70
     
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  25. Kem0sabe Arcane

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    80 euros in the case of europe
     
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