The writing in this game is average

[Starwars]

Yeah, Maerwald was pretty terrible.

I highly doubt he was written by MCA. In fact, I highly doubt anything in this game was written by MCA, and it shows as hell, especially nearing the end. And I can't wrap my head around why the fuck would they ever think about benching MCA for their "flagship" title.

You can most definitely tell that a LOT of Durance and GM was written by Avellone, good or bad. For example, Durance's dialogue has a *lot* of nodes that just repeat the others but in different wording, a trait Avellone seems to have developed for some his later offerings. You can tell by the way the dialogues are set up, how certain nodes lead into one another.

And Maerwald was excellent, and well-voiced to boot.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Hasn't it been confirmed that MCA didn't actually write those two but only made their concepts? I would say that's only QED for my case

 

[Starwars]

Accounts seem to differ. Fenstermaker posted on the OEI forums that Avellone wrote them (he posted a list with the writers for the companions). I think there were additions by other writers for Durance and GM but I think Avellone handled most of them just by virtue of how they read.

 

[made]

Hasn't it been confirmed that MCA didn't actually write those two but only made their concepts? I would say that's only QED for my case

 

[Xeon]

Am i mistaking that the only way to actually reach Twin Elms is by having Sagani in the party and going after her side quest - which opens up that path in Stormwall Gorge... ? Which is the only way through?

Spoiler

You don't need Sagani, the path to Twin Elms is where you meet the Druid (East of where you meet Sagani), you can only cross to Twin Elms after Act 2 tho.

 

[Roguey]

Accounts seem to differ. Fenstermaker posted on the OEI forums that Avellone wrote them (he posted a list with the writers for the companions). I think there were additions by other writers for Durance and GM but I think Avellone handled most of them just by virtue of how they read.

Sawyer said Avellone wrote the first two drafts of those characters, and then Fenstermaker and Patel edited and added to them. They're Avellone's with script doctoring.

my head canon is that sawyer and MCA kinda doesn't like each other. in my head it's because their writing style is completely different.

They like each other more than Chris and Brian.

I get the impression Avellone's in that stage of his career where he loses interest easily in whatever he's doing, hence taking on all those small roles on various projects. He said himself that he preferred working on New Vegas DLC far more than a big project.

 

[KazikluBey]

What's up with souls?

They can be destroyed, and "grind to dust" over time spent in the wheel. How do new souls come about? Would they work as well or worse than the ones used in the Salvation for several life times until they've accrued sufficient experience?

Why didn't the Salvation work? It's made clear that souls aren't tied to specific sexes, races, species or even to kith. Snow dwarf to deer is in the game, a snow elf is upset he has been reborn as a snow elf forever, and the concept of reincarnating as an animal as divine punishment is at least referred to.

What "is" an individual? The soul brings a whole other level to the question of nurture vs nature, now it's nurture vs nature vs soul. The soul doesn't seem to actually impact anything though, unless you Awaken. Aloth and his old personality are radically different. If all the soul brings to the table are possible memories of past lives but has no effect on your identity and personality, why would someone feel burdened those old memories? It was someone else entirely who committed the acts! This made me feel rather disconnected from the story toward the end.

What about family versus soul mates? Some people at least seem to care a great deal about past souls, but what I find off-putting is that even souls seem to "naturally" care about blood bonds (I said I was her brother). There also doesn't seem to be a culturally conditioned response to this in Dyrwood, though Sagani could be said to hold one.

 

[hiver]

Am i mistaking that the only way to actually reach Twin Elms is by having Sagani in the party and going after her side quest - which opens up that path in Stormwall Gorge... ? Which is the only way through?

Spoiler

You don't need Sagani, the path to Twin Elms is where you meet the Druid (East of where you meet Sagani), you can only cross to Twin Elms after Act 2 tho.

No, i went there and got the druid previously,

Spoiler

and all the available sides of the map dont open the path to Twin Elms, while you cannot reach the bottom since you have to go through the old ruin with the levitating arches on top, and the glowing thingy where you can rest doesnt have the missing part/key - which opens after you get to the cliffs where Saganis lost chieftain quest takes you.

You find he isnt there anymore and you follow him back to the Storm gorge and that old ruin and find that he opened that dungeon and you go through it to get down to the lower plain with those Selgar cats and then from there you can travel to first Twin Elms area.

Is that the only way to do it? I heard someone mention doing some quest for the Dozen to open that?

 

[Angthoron]

Maerwald was pretty great.

The speech pattern serves to show the problems is several souls in him, and his loss of control. He doesnt repeat sentences btw, and more importantly, the subject of that conversation is pretty great.
While the voiceover is perfect.

Anyway, yesterday i went through the "hearing" and the aftermath... MY GOD the amounts of loading screens to get that thing going!!! Fucking hell... run here tell this person that, now run here and tell this person this, now run back to say what they said, now run back .... aargghh.

Otherwise,
Is there any difference to what happens in DB based on what you did previously? Is it always the same kind of consequences regardless if you did stuff for dozen or the knights?

Only in the ending slides, basically.

Am i mistaking that the only way to actually reach Twin Elms is by having Sagani in the party and going after her side quest - which opens up that path in Stormwall Gorge... ? Which is the only way through?

Why in the hell would anyone do that kind of pointlessly convoluted crap?

It opens when the plot says it opens.

 

[hiver]

Its not specifically about it opening when the plot says , as that is pretty fucking obvious, but about how you open that path regardless of that little side fact, in that convoluted way. Is that how fucking natives and citizens go to Twin Elms? have to open the secret dungeon each time by following some long lost reincarnated tribal chief or shaman?

- 10 point for grifindor for misunderstanding the problem.

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

Its not specifically about it opening when the plot says , as that is pretty fucking obvious, but about how you open that path regardless of that little side fact, in that convoluted way. Is that how fucking natives and citizens go to Twin Elms? have to open the secret dungeon each time by following some long lost reincarnated tribal chief or shaman?

- 10 point for grifindor for misunderstanding the problem.

There is a path down the cliffs, you do not need to go through the dungeon.

 

[hiver]

but you need that path to get open, with the glowing thingy in the ruins on top, right?
because there is water there before. or does the water just disappear by itself at that point ?

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

but you need that path to get open, with the glowing thingy on top, right?
because there is water there before. or does the water just disappear by itself at that point ?

It disappears after you finish the second act.
The glowing-thing dungeon is optional.

 

[hiver]

Well... good thing nobody thought to ever mention that the country is split in half and that there is no passage between two parts. All those wars and everything... all anyone needed to do is flood that passage and finito!

What a bunch of rubbish.

 

[Angthoron]

How about a fucking boat.

Spoiler

Also there is like a flood or something, which is why the bridge from Gilded Whale to DB is borked, I'm guessing it's the same Convenience Flood here, eh made a lake and stopped when no longer plot-convenient.

 

[Xeon]

Spoiler

I thought Thaos was the one who ended the flooding, since he finished his business in the region and decided to leave to Twin Elms, he activated the circle somehow since it started to glow after act2 and became un-intractable and drained the water or something.

I didn't do Sagani's quest so have no idea if the glowing circle related to her or to the water to Twin Elms

 

[hiver]

No its the

Spoiler

chieftan from Sagani quest that does that. But i think you could start that even without Sagani in the party... just following "the clues" in the cliffs location and direct pointers in the Journal, yourself.
- Or... the chieftan just follows after Thaos...? But what if you start that quest earlier?
You would just need to go through Drake map..

anyway, the sagani quest is not directly tied to the main plot so its even stranger to see all that mixed together, after the DB going bonkers and leaving you to fuckin figure out what next, suddenly since all things you are left to do are roadblocked.

And yeah, sure, flood, whatever.

I dont get whats the point of all those convoluted ways anyway. Its not like you cannot invent something fitting for a story and make a quest or two out of it, instead of that kind of gamey crap.

 

[Angthoron]

Sagani's chieftain has nothing to do with it, you'll find out why soon enough. Unless you already have.

In any case, it is convoluted even without that, so your criticism is fair game.

 

[Crooked Bee]

my head canon is that sawyer and MCA kinda doesn't like each other. in my head it's because their writing style is completely different.

They like each other more than Chris and Brian.

For a second there I thought you meant Fargo and was going to ask you to tell us more. But then I realized you were talking about Mitsoda.

I get the impression Avellone's in that stage of his career where he loses interest easily in whatever he's doing, hence taking on all those small roles on various projects. He said himself that he preferred working on New Vegas DLC far more than a big project.

My own impression is that Chris wants to try something new, some kind of project that would allow him to experiment and go beyond his traditional role of writing lengthy philosophical / evocative conversations. Like a first person Looking Glass-style game, to use a more or less random example. However, Obsidian doesn't really have the means to try something really unconventional (for them), being stuck in their traditional RPG role and limited in their budget.

That is also why Dead Money and Old World Blues were so unconventional (in general as well as compared to the main game) - MCA tried to do something novel there, even if he had to work within the confines of the main game's engine, setting & gameplay.

 

[hiver]

Sagani chieftan - goes through that dungeon and then to Twin Elms through that same spot.

mkay?

Sagani's chieftain has nothing to do with it,

With what?
Lowering the water? We already solved that.

What are you misunderstanding again?

 

[Darth Roxor]

so i started a 2nd playthrough to get it through act 1 to confirm some things before i write a wall of rants, and i finally found the answer as to why your character is actually on the wild goose chase throughout the game

its because in that initial biawac-inspired vision, it's said that your past self stands before Thaos and you have a question that needs answering

 

[Angthoron]

so i started a 2nd playthrough to get it through act 1 to confirm some things before i write a wall of rants, and i finally found the answer as to why your character is actually on the wild goose chase throughout the game

its because in that initial biawac-inspired vision, it's said that your past self stands before Thaos and you have a question that needs answering

Wow. That's stupid and cheap, nice bundle.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I also like how in that scene where you first meet Thaos, the game makes sure to mention it like three times that he is an old bearded guy in a fancy hat and mysteriooz robes.

I also like how your protag can see a 'runic language he's never seen before!!!!' covering his robes from what, 100 metres away?

Also, "'you see a man with a thick beard in ceremonial robe'"

artist's impression:

 

[Angthoron]

Nice catch, Roxor.

 

[Malpercio]

?

I thought it was clear why you are chasing him. Your status as a Watcher and half-awakened status are making you see things and will eventually make you go crazy (like whatshisname). They say it many times during the game.