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The writing in this game is average

Bleed the Man

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I don't thnk he meant that a single person has to write everything. A single person should decide the story,themes, plot, and design the companions. Design, not writing every line of dialogue himself. But defining their arc, character, motivations etc.
I don't know if that would be a good thing. The lead writer and project director should definetly supervise the process of every character and storyline of the game, but not directly decide anything outside giving feedback and adress thematical/quality issues. I think it allows for a better workflow of ideas, although I obviously don't have any knowledge whatsoever of this kind of work.
 

Athelas

Arcane
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
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4,502
You don't understand her pain. :desu:

She will be the best-written character once someone releases a mod that replaces all the ellipses with normal punctuation.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,404
The major problem I have with PoE plot is that nothing is personal, there is the question of the hollowborn and you being a watcher and all but you don't feel that affecting your character on a meaningful way. The game tells you alot of things but some of the most awesome things it tells in form of lore dumps but don't show. Some awesome monsters like the witchs, children with the souls of animals, the first time you are introduced to them is when you start killing trash mobs of them on the way to Caed Nua.

It is infuriating you having to do all that bullshit on Guilded Vale of getting the supplies to the smith, fetch a potion, save a cook from bandits, all generic RPG 101 quests hardly interesting when Éder just tells you the story of a witch that ate her brother and her father suffering... hmmm... you know... how about making quests about this sort of awesome stuff Obsidian instead of random fantasy quest generator that made most of the sidequests of the game? The story about the Godhammer and the ramifications on faith was awesome too, it was a pity that outside of Éder, you barely have any connection with that stuff.

About Durance and Grieving Mother, I was reading the other companion side stories and was hardly impressed by them, the other companions lack any personality but boy... when I read Durance and Grieving Mother it was like the quality of the writing jumped from mediocre/bland to awesome all of sudden. Yes, they are too verbose and the writing is a bit exagerated at the times but man I laughed when you are clever with Durance and tell him that his godness was a whore and the proof was that she used him and thrown him away and he still craved for her attention, the butthurt made me smile. Grieving Mother was interesting too with her theme: Is everything permitted if it brings a little hope and happyness, even lies and manipulation?
 

Karwelas

Dwarf Taffer
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Codex Year of the Donut I helped put crap in Monomyth
The major problem I have with PoE plot is that nothing is personal, there is the question of the hollowborn and you being a watcher and all but you don't feel that affecting your character on a meaningful way. The game tells you alot of things but some of the most awesome things it tells in form of lore dumps but don't show. Some awesome monsters like the witchs, children with the souls of animals, the first time you are introduced to them is when you start killing trash mobs of them on the way to Caed Nua.

It is infuriating you having to do all that bullshit on Guilded Vale of getting the supplies to the smith, fetch a potion, save a cook from bandits, all generic RPG 101 quests hardly interesting when Éder just tells you the story of a witch that ate her brother and her father suffering... hmmm... you know... how about making quests about this sort of awesome stuff Obsidian instead of random fantasy quest generator that made most of the sidequests of the game? The story about the Godhammer and the ramifications on faith was awesome too, it was a pity that outside of Éder, you barely have any connection with that stuff.

About Durance and Grieving Mother, I was reading the other companion side stories and was hardly impressed by them, the other companions lack any personality but boy... when I read Durance and Grieving Mother it was like the quality of the writing jumped from mediocre/bland to awesome all of sudden. Yes, they are too verbose and the writing is a bit exagerated at the times but man I laughed when you are clever with Durance and tell him that his godness was a whore and the proof was that she used him and thrown him away and he still craved for her attention, the butthurt made me smile. Grieving Mother was interesting too with her theme: Is everything permitted if it brings a little hope and happyness, even lies and manipulation?
This. Brofist this man to the sky.

And bout plot. Imagine how damn interesting it would be if it would be placed in Legacy (I don't remember if it was that war with Eothas itself. Or just curse) and you could take one of sites in it. If you could be part of each army. Quest involving that Godhammer bomb. Meeting Eder and his brother before. Meeting that Eothas guy and let it turn out that he is really good man with vision but his way to make it may harm the world too much. Give us something to think of, make us care and THEN make us decide about it. Give us possibility to kill, be traitor, be just normal man involved in religion conflict.

Even better, make the current PoE plot modificed and give it as expansion. Maybe with importing the same character. Imagine, how would you fell after that if you would site with Eothasians? Or meeting Eder once more... I imagine just his face. (It would be good if the base game you could become important or just be one of menecaries) You, just tell, general of Eothasian armies back. Will he split in your face? Welcome you with smile? Try to murderer you?

Make Watcher curse more interesting and give us posibility to REALLY get mad with it. They are basic things, but they is what make each good plots in game important. With lore they create they really could make awesome game.

This is what make this game 10/10 in plot.
 
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Pope Amole II

Nerd Commando Game Studios
Developer
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
2,052
I half-expect I missed the scene in the game where he kicks a dog, too.

But that's pretty much what Iowara is for. It's not like her arguments or this whole false gods/atheism makes any real sense (there are so many holes and fallacies in that that I don't even want to discuss that) - it's just to show how evil and despicable Thaos is, deathraping the pretty girl. That's her only point.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
Palegina shows that Sawyer uses the same approach when writing characters he uses when designing system. You could say a lot bad things about Bioware's female companions. Theat they are there just as romance fodder, than they have retarded emotional struggles designed to make male players feel important, that they are cartoony, that fit obvious cliches etc. So Sawyer took all the bad stuff and removed it. Palegina is not romancable, she doesn't have heavy emotional baggage that player has to deal with, she's not sexy, she's not cute, she's not needy, she's not rude. As a result she's not anything at all. She's just a bitchy Paladin with the same ammount of personality as Female Voice number 1 in Icewind Dale. It's Ironic Sawyer laughed at harem comedies and visual novels but at the end couldn't manage to outdo them when it comes to writing female characters.
 

Athelas

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Jun 24, 2013
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she doesn't have heavy emotional baggage that player has to deal with, she's not sexy, she's not cute, she's not needy, she's not rude. As a result she's not anything at all.
You forgot 'she don't need no man'.

You do realize though that the absence of the things you listed isn't at all indicative of a badly written character? More likely the opposite.
 
Joined
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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
she doesn't have heavy emotional baggage that player has to deal with, she's not sexy, she's not cute, she's not needy, she's not rude. As a result she's not anything at all.
You forgot 'she don't need no man'.

You do realize though that the absence of the things you listed isn't at all indicative of a badly written character? More likely the opposite.

The point is that even if they had bad writing here and there and least they had something to make them interesting and that just cutting out the bad stuff doesn't make the character good. You actually need good stuff to replace it. If you care too much about making a mistakes you end up with blandness. The same things might be said about mechanics. Sawyer made a game without hard counters, imbalanced mages and OP itemst but replaced them with absolute blandness rather than anything interesting.
 
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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In

AN4RCHID

Arcane
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Jan 24, 2013
Messages
4,861
She really doesn't seem to have the same emotional weight as the other companions. Even Sagani, who I at first thought was very dry, comes around if you follow her quest - that scene where she finally tracks down the person she was looking for is a gut punch. With Pallegina I just didn't understand why she cared about trade agreements and the "ducs". There's a bit about her getting sold to an order of Paladins as a child, but that never seems to payoff.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,709
29 months means sacrifices must be made.

Josh said:
Also, because I knew I wouldn't have much time to spend writing, Pallegina appearing later in the game was helpful.

That being said, I think the other companions wound up much better integrated into the main plot (my fault).
 

Lord Andre

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Apr 11, 2011
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Gypsystan
Mmm, the fact that she looks like Rihana and even talks with a Jamaican accent was an instant "send to the fortress" for me. :M

Sagani and Grieving Mother started dumping TLDR on me about stupid boring shit I wasn't even remotely interested in. "Off to the fortress!"

The druid guy seemed ok but there's only room for one overpowered class in my party and that's my kensai-mage cipher.

Eder, Kana, Aloth were ok for me, they had opinions on shit but no info dumps. Durance I kept because it's funny how he throws the word "whore" around like a 14 year old boy.
 

Hegel

Arcane
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
3,274
29 months means sacrifices must be made.

Josh said:
Also, because I knew I wouldn't have much time to spend writing, Pallegina appearing later in the game was helpful.

That being said, I think the other companions wound up much better integrated into the main plot (my fault).
Are you telling me that a 2 years and half development cycle with a premade engine is not long enough to write well rounded companions? Stop making excuses, this game was developed by Obsidian's team B, the benched ones. Finally anybody can see how Sawyer can't design for shit. A dull person made a dull game with a dull plot and wrote a dull, banal companion, we foretold this outcome from the onset. No wonder he doesn't like the variety of BGII, the guy is dead inside, if you split his skull in half you'll find boredom in it.
Cleve should have designed this game.
 

Hegel

Arcane
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
3,274
I don't give a rat ass, luckily enough I'm in a position where I don't have to care about the soporifics intricacies of graphic engine making. On the other hand those guys are paid to do just that. Did they develop the thing from scratch? No, unlike other projects with a similar scope which happen to deal fine with their deadlines. Time constraints are not a credible excuse in a professional setting, professionals are paid to deliver their promised standard compliant products in time, it would be childish to think otherwise just because.
Obsidian has a history of developing bugged and unfinished games, that's shoddy management right there and being apologetic everytime they fail to fulfill their obligations doesn't help.
 
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Athelas

Arcane
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
4,502
I don't give a rat ass, luckily enough I'm in a position I don't have to care about the soporifics intricacies of graphic engine making. On the other hand those guys are paid to do just that. Did they develop the thing from scratch? No, unlike other projects with a similar scope that happen to live up and perform within their deadlines. Time constraints are not a credible excuse in a professional setting, professionals are paid to deliver their promised standard compliant products in time, it would be childish to think otherwise just because.
Obsidian has a history of developing bugged and unfinished games, that's shoddy management right there and being apologetic everytime they fail to fulfill their obligations doesn't help.
Pillars is in fact their most polished and finished RPG release to date.

That doesn't necessarily mean it's good. :M
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
You forgot 'she don't need no man'.

You do realize though that the absence of the things you listed isn't at all indicative of a badly written character? More likely the opposite.

She don't need no man but wants me (a total stranger she just met) to make tough political decisions for her. Aside from Aloth (who's boring as hell) I enjoyed party members on the whole (I'm fine with them being more like regular people instead of grandiose caricatures with daddy issues) but the game could have really used some tough decisions and conflict when it comes to them. I like Eder for example and the ambiguous end to his personal quest but even with his dry, cynical approach to life he should be pissed I'm making a deal with Raedric considering everything (his reign of terror, responsible for the death of only person that stood up for Eder etc.), especially if I ravaged his castle defenses getting to him.

Regarding Pallegina, I'd prefer if there was some situation that threatened Valian Republic that required me to chose between having her as an ally/party member and completing the quest/getting the reward.
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
Are you telling me that a 2 years and half development cycle with a premade engine is not long enough to write well rounded companions? Stop making excuses, this game was developed by Obsidian's team B, the benched ones. Finally anybody can see how Sawyer can't design for shit. A dull person made a dull game with a dull plot and wrote a dull, banal companion, we foretold this outcome from the onset. No wonder he doesn't like the variety of BGII, the guy is dead inside, if you split his skull in half you'll find boredom in it.

Sawyer isn't a bad designer, the system he designed for PoE is functional and that's a victory in itself given that it's made from scratch in a relatively short period. It's just that his design approach/philosophy appeals to people who have radically different taste than me and as a result his games are usually boring, bland and repetitive for me. The people singing PoE praises the most are by and large those who dislike RTWP and/or didn't like IE games combat gameplay and casual players.

Cleve should have designed this game.

:lol: sure, 10 micro issues remaining.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,404
Obsidian has a history of developing bugged and unfinished games, that's shoddy management right there and being apologetic everytime they fail to fulfill their obligations doesn't help.

But this game is finished, it is just that what was finished isn't all that interesting in the first place.
 

Jaedar

Arcane
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Aug 5, 2009
Messages
10,144
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
I don't give a rat ass, luckily enough I'm in a position I don't have to care about the soporifics intricacies of graphic engine making. On the other hand those guys are paid to do just that. Did they develop the thing from scratch? No, unlike other projects with a similar scope that happen to live up and perform within their deadlines. Time constraints are not a credible excuse in a professional setting, professionals are paid to deliver their promised standard compliant products in time, it would be childish to think otherwise just because.
Obsidian has a history of developing bugged and unfinished games, that's shoddy management right there and being apologetic everytime they fail to fulfill their obligations doesn't help.
Pillars is in fact their most polished and finished RPG release to date.

That doesn't necessarily mean it's good. :M
PoE makes me think that maybe being finished and polished is not so important in the grand scheme of things.
 

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