Information Thorvalla Kickstarter Update #2

[Crooked Bee]

Yeah, Hero-U's problem was that the Coles wanted to make a game that was perceived by many fans as too different from Quest for Glory, not that the pitch itself was bad. It wasn't.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Yeah, i agree. The only problem I had with Hero U is that the game didn't really sound appealing to me. They were very clear up front on what they wanted to do, they clearly planned this for months beforehand and they were super active post Kickstarter.

 

[Tramboi]

My main problem with this project is "dragons". I'm sick of dragons.

 

[Johannes]

Every failed kickstarter forces the following pitches to improve. Funding crappy pitches like Hero-U leads to things like Thorvalla and Bloom.

That doesn't make any sense. Hero-U was still running when Thorvalla was launched and who knows when it was planned. If they fail they fail on their own.
Still don't know how Hero-U was a crappy pitch, though. I guess "I don't like the type of game they're making" means the pitch is bad, and when you like it the pitch is good or something. Because if we're talking strictly on how they run their campaign, it was better than the other Sierra Kickstarters. I suppose those were crappy pitches as well and they didn't deserve to be funded. Fuck those losers wanting to make games, I want them to make cool pitches instead. Pitchstarter, fuck yeah.

Hero-U's Kicktraq curve is almost text book perfect. They even estimated perfectly, how much they could get. They tell you what you will be doing in their game, and why you will enjoy it. That is a good pitch.

Yeah, actually it's really fortunate to set your goal to the level you'll barely reach. If they'd asked for, say, 350k, then they probably would've gotten about that much. When the projects funding itself is on the line, people will be inclined to go pledge just a bit more in order to make it happen. Stretch goals will never be that crucial.

 

[Moribund]

But if it's under what they need they are going to have issues.

Thank you so much for the vote of confidence, GirkinFirker. Your sentiments are most appreciated. Kickstarter is the right place to pledge because if we won't make our goal here, the game simply will not happen. There won't be any restarts or anything. We're throwing everything we have behind this one campaign.

Really everything? Also, no restarts means this is never going to happen, because this kickstarter has already failed. After three days it still sits at 30,000$ and pledges have almost come to a standstill.

If he doesn't do this no doubt he has to do some other work.

 

[Brother None]

Yeah, actually it's really fortunate to set your goal to the level you'll barely reach. If they'd asked for, say, 350k, then they probably would've gotten about that much. When the projects funding itself is on the line, people will be inclined to go pledge just a bit more in order to make it happen. Stretch goals will never be that crucial.

The immediate appearance of "stretch goals" for a kind of continued fundraising makes me thinks they were kind of counting on getting more though. I'd imagine any famous old-schooler stepping into this is hoping to be the next DFA/WL2/P:E.

Yeah, Hero-U's problem was that the Coles wanted to make a game that was perceived by many fans as too different from Quest for Glory, not that the pitch itself was bad. It wasn't.

That and really shitty art.

(snip)

I admire your persistence in spamming completely unrelated newsthreads with pics of your own project

 

[J1M]

Every failed kickstarter forces the following pitches to improve. Funding crappy pitches like Hero-U leads to things like Thorvalla and Bloom.

That doesn't make any sense. Hero-U was still running when Thorvalla was launched and who knows when it was planned. If they fail they fail on their own.
Still don't know how Hero-U was a crappy pitch, though. I guess "I don't like the type of game they're making" means the pitch is bad, and when you like it the pitch is good or something. Because if we're talking strictly on how they run their campaign, it was better than the other Sierra Kickstarters. I suppose those were crappy pitches as well and they didn't deserve to be funded. Fuck those losers wanting to make games, I want them to make cool pitches instead. Pitchstarter, fuck yeah.

Maybe they improved things as time went on, but if you recall the Hero-U thread here there were plenty of people that saw a very lackluster first pitch and wrote the game off. Just like Thorvalla they did not appear to have put any more than a weekend into preparing their pitch and the artwork shown was absolutely terrible.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Maybe they improved things as time went on, but if you recall the Hero-U thread here there were plenty of people that saw a very lackluster first pitch and wrote the game off. Just like Thorvalla they did not appear to have put any more than a weekend into preparing their pitch and the artwork shown was absolutely terrible.

Well, yes, they didn't start that great. They did make up for it later, though. And about the art: http://www.hero-u.net/hero-u-game-media.html Much better than the shitty character art released by PE for example.
I don't know if starting "great" would have made much of a difference, though. Maybe that's just the amount of people who were interested in funding their game.
For example, people here complained that the Thorvalla pitch didn't have enough details, although except not saying "Thorvalla is a spiritual successor to game X" they had pretty much as many details as W2 and PE. Oh right, they said they weren't decided if the game would be 2D or 3D. The horror, kill it with fire! But OK, it didn't have enough details. They then gave details in updates. Why didn't all those tons of people who supposedly just wanted details pledge then?

There's a difference between making a pitch for a game that has great popular appeal (PE) and for a game that doesn't. You can bust your ass doing it, but I don't think it would make a big difference. So then what?

 

[skuphundaku]

(snip)

I admire your persistence in spamming completely unrelated newsthreads with pics of your own project

Me too . I've already given up on this Thorvalla KS turning out to be anything but epic fail, but I'm getting really anxious to see Apexeon's KS. Apexeon, if you fuck this up, the Kodex is going to be merciless!

 

[Rake]

Maybe they improved things as time went on, but if you recall the Hero-U thread here there were plenty of people that saw a very lackluster first pitch and wrote the game off. Just like Thorvalla they did not appear to have put any more than a weekend into preparing their pitch and the artwork shown was absolutely terrible.

Well, yes, they didn't start that great. They did make up for it later, though. And about the art: http://www.hero-u.net/hero-u-game-media.html Much better than the shitty character art released by PE for example.
I don't know if starting "great" would have made much of a difference, though. Maybe that's just the amount of people who were interested in funding their game.
For example, people here complained that the Thorvalla pitch didn't have enough details, although except not saying "Thorvalla is a spiritual successor to game X" they had pretty much as many details as W2 and PE. Oh right, they said they weren't decided if the game would be 2D or 3D. The horror, kill it with fire! But OK, it didn't have enough details. They then gave details in updates. Why didn't all those tons of people who supposedly just wanted details pledge then?

There's a difference between making a pitch for a game that has great popular appeal (PE) and for a game that doesn't. You can bust your ass doing it, but I don't think it would make a big difference. So then what?

It's simple. If your game hasn't great popular appeal you don't ask a great amount of money. I don't think there is a way to avoid this fact, whatever method of funding you use.
A game that can not cover its development costs from a busines perspective its a failure. That dosen't mean that it can't be a great game for the target audience, but if the target market is too small its not worth the trouble. The only way for the game to be made is at someone's loss. So either the developer works for free part time, or the small target audience pay for the game insane amounds of money

 

[Apexeon]

(snip)

I admire your persistence in spamming completely unrelated newsthreads with pics of your own project

Me too . I've already given up on this Thorvalla KS turning out to be anything but epic fail, but I'm getting really anxious to see Apexeon's KS. Apexeon, if you fuck this up, the Kodex is going to be merciless!

Bring the pain.

 

[Angelo85]

I admire your persistence in spamming completely unrelated newsthreads with pics of your own project

Yeah I noticed that too, he is at it with almost prosperous fervor.

So I dug a little deeper and OH MY GOD YOU GUYS I HAVE THE WEIRDEST THEORY YOU WON'T BELIEVE YOUR EYES. But after all the Cleve turmoil that's been going on lately, deep down I now believe anything is possible.

The mines were going to be used in a Fallout like game (So I added cables).

(link to post)

The aim is to [...] making this a legitimate 3d fallout. yes you will be able to play it on the wii.
I may be full of shit. I will probably give up and find a new project.

(link to post)

Thus, "Apexeons" new game idea was born.
So for the time being I shall update my Apexeon.txt with "Possible Prosper Alt, when on his strong meds. Golden babies can fly.".

And yes, it's been a slow Friday night for me :/

 

[kaizoku]

Bring the pain.

unshackle the

 

[eric__s]

I'm really sorry Mr. Henkel! You know we're your core audience and that we all want to see this happen, but you have to reach out to more than just us. I think you should close up shop, spend a few more months with this project in the oven and then try to get it on some big sites like IGN or Kotaku or whatever. Obviously make the game you want to make, a game for traditional roleplaying game fans, but convey how it will also appeal to people not in that demographic. The people on this site want microdetails like character classes and how rolls will work or whatever, but I think fleshing out the macrodetails like how the game will play, how it will look, what it will offer that other RPGs don't, and sell it on those details.

I think you can do it, but you need to rethink your approach.

 

[Apexeon]

I admire your persistence in spamming completely unrelated newsthreads with pics of your own project

Yeah I noticed that too, he is at it with almost prosperous fervor.

So I dug a little deeper and OH MY GOD YOU GUYS I HAVE THE WEIRDEST THEORY YOU WON'T BELIEVE YOUR EYES. But after all the Cleve turmoil that's been going on lately, deep down I now believe anything is possible.

The mines were going to be used in a Fallout like game (So I added cables).

(link to post)

The aim is to [...] making this a legitimate 3d fallout. yes you will be able to play it on the wii.
I may be full of shit. I will probably give up and find a new project.

(link to post)

Thus, "Apexeons" new game idea was born.
So for the time being I shall update my Apexeon.txt with "Possible Prosper Alt, when on his strong meds. Golden babies can fly.".

And yes, it's been a slow Friday night for me :/

Golden baby hey.

I have the Giant Golden Vibrating fist!

 

[Apexeon]

http://thorvalla.com/

Now this is some very nice art work. I would up my pledge but it does not look good.

 

[almondblight]

Yeah, it didn't even make RPS' Kickstarter catchup, that included games like Forced.

 

[~RAGING BONER~]

hold your head high Guido...at least you beat Bloom!

Choke back those tears, don't let them see you cry.

 

[zeitgeist]

Not everyone is comfortable with micro-managing sixty character attributes, and while we are trying to build a pretty hard core game here, I do not think the majority of players are truly so hardcore that character generation is the thing they want to spend the first few days of the game in.

Another game for someone else it seems. Oh well.

 

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor_]

You now also get a free book, not yet written by some guy you never heard of, if you spend more than $200

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I'm really sorry Mr. Henkel! You know we're your core audience and that we all want to see this happen, but you have to reach out to more than just us. I think you should close up shop, spend a few more months with this project in the oven and then try to get it on some big sites like IGN or Kotaku or whatever. Obviously make the game you want to make, a game for traditional roleplaying game fans, but convey how it will also appeal to people not in that demographic. The people on this site want microdetails like character classes and how rolls will work or whatever, but I think fleshing out the macrodetails like how the game will play, how it will look, what it will offer that other RPGs don't, and sell it on those details.

I think you can do it, but you need to rethink your approach.

It would do nothing, the Kotaku crowd would say "who?", look at the features the RoA games had and their head would explode.

 

[J1M]

Yeah, it didn't even make RPS' Kickstarter catchup, that included games like Forced.

Forced looks way(!) better than Thorvalla. Thanks for pointing it out. I'm going to donate and hopefully they hit their goal.

Looks like the kind of game that I wanted Diablo 3 to be. Something to play with friends.

And look, they have 10x more people working on it while asking for 4% of the money.

 

[Moribund]

Yeah, it didn't even make RPS' Kickstarter catchup, that included games like Forced.

Forced looks way(!) better than Thorvalla. Thanks for pointing it out. I'm going to donate and hopefully they hit their goal.

Looks like the kind of game that I wanted Diablo 3 to be. Something to play with friends.

And look, they have 10x more people working on it while asking for 4% of the money.

Diablo + left 4 dead lol

It becomes clear why you guys think this KS sucks.

 

[kaizoku]

http://thorvalla.com/

Now this is some very nice art work. I would up my pledge but it does not look good.

It actually looks great.
A bit "bloomy?" with maybe a bit too much detail (as far as KS money focus goes), but looks great.

Not everyone is comfortable with micro-managing sixty character attributes, and while we are trying to build a pretty hard core game here, I do not think the majority of players are truly so hardcore that character generation is the thing they want to spend the first few days of the game in.

Another game for someone else it seems. Oh well.

Did you even read the whole update or are just trying to cash some KKK?
When you start a new game you spend your time rolling your character (setting each possible configurable attribute/skill/perk) and you're done. You can start "playing" the game.
And when you meet a recruitable NPC you'll be able to do it again: to define the attributes and skills of each character. Everything except for the race and gender.

Yeah, it didn't even make RPS' Kickstarter catchup, that included games like Forced.

Forced looks way(!) better than Thorvalla. Thanks for pointing it out. I'm going to donate and hopefully they hit their goal.

Looks like the kind of game that I wanted Diablo 3 to be. Something to play with friends.

And look, they have 10x more people working on it while asking for 4% of the money.

Your true colors... they reek of shit.

 

[zeitgeist]

Not everyone is comfortable with micro-managing sixty character attributes, and while we are trying to build a pretty hard core game here, I do not think the majority of players are truly so hardcore that character generation is the thing they want to spend the first few days of the game in.

Another game for someone else it seems. Oh well.

Did you even read the whole update or are just trying to cash some KKK?

Oh come on, can't it be a bit of both?

When you start a new game you spend your time rolling your character (setting each possible configurable attribute/skill/perk) and you're done. You can start "playing" the game.
And when you meet a recruitable NPC you'll be able to do it again: to define the attributes and skills of each character. Everything except for the race and gender.

I did actually read it, and I came to the above conclusion: that it's not going to be a game for me. At least not one that I'd consider funding upfront.

I'm obviously foolishly idealistic and all, but I'm honestly expecting someone who made Realms of Arkania to hit me with "twice as many character attributes", "three times as many classes" etc. as the very core of the pitch. I mean, if it's going to be funded through Kickstarter, so I'm expecting something that wouldn't have been possible to make otherwise. If you're making a hamburger, you can do it via the standard publisher route*.

However, as Kickstarter has shown so far, it's either impossible to actually fund a ridiculously deep and complex game the likes of which really should be available two decades after RoA/Darklands/insert-classic-here/etc. through the system unless you exploit the system in other ways (lie about the game to draw more people to the project than you would if you honestly described it, and then make the game you really wanted to make in the first place), or no one has made a good enough pitch yet. Since most successful pitches came from hype and star power, not the presentation of a great design doc, perhaps no one sees the point in the latter, and instead hopes the former will do.

It's not all that surprising, after all, all good art takes an immense sacrifice first and foremost from the artist himself. Something that I haven't seen anyone on Kickstarter display.

* - unless you can't because you're not on good terms with any of the publishers, you're not part of the in-crowd, or whatever other personal and business-related reasons (that aren't directly related to the type of game you want to make), so Kickstarter is not your only hope to make a great game as you present it, but your only hope to make any game at all ever again...