People News Torment Kickstarter Update #49: Kevin Saunders leaves inXile, replaced by Chris Keenan

[DarkArcher]

So, if there is concern about TTON shouldn't questions also come into play about what this means for Bard's Tale IV? Just sayin...

 

[Excidium II]

Nobody really seems to give a damn about BT4. Campaign was all sorts of terrible and failed to generate any hype.

 

[Irenaeus II]

I'll give a fuck when the time has come. For now, I'm worried about TTON

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Wasteland 2 was worse than PoE and Shadowrun combined, and I hate Shadowrun.

Wasteland 2 is better than both by far, only D:OS is on the same level.

 

[DeepOcean]

Wasteland 2 is better than both by far, only D:OS is on the same level.

Wasteland 2 is ugly, the combat is repetitive and unimaginative, the story is poorly tought out shit, alot of the areas are huge but full of boring fights and with pratically no decent content in them, the hyped reactivity was just hype but it's still better than PoE so I kinda agree with you.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Blablablablablablablablabla I kinda agree with you.

 

[MurkyShadow]

Nobody really seems to give a damn about BT4. Campaign was all sorts of terrible and failed to generate any hype.

I think I'll completely forget that I backed it / its existence and will be surprised when I'll get a memo that it has been released.
Also, I still have Wasteland 2 collecting dust on my hard disk. I've been one click away for sometime, but caught myself
replaying the old Syndicate from Bullfrog instead, or perusing Let's plays on the Codex. Ah, well.

I'll stay slightly optimistic for TTON, as long as inXile doesn't pull an 'Consoles are teh Future'.

 

[Fairfax]

I think I'll completely forget that I backed it / its existence and will be surprised when I'll get a memo that it has been released.
Also, I still have Wasteland 2 collecting dust on my hard disk. I've been one click away for sometime, but caught myself
replaying the old Syndicate from Bullfrog instead, or perusing Let's plays on the Codex. Ah, well.

I'll stay slightly optimistic for TTON, as long as inXile doesn't pull an 'Consoles are teh Future'.

 

[Irenaeus II]

http://www.ign.com/games/wasteland-2/xbox-one-20033745

 

[Daedalos]

What RPG dev hasn't jumped the console bandwagon lately?

Obsidian? Not sure. Harebrained?

 

[Irenaeus II]

The small ones.

 

[Fairfax]

Obsidian almost did. They biggest project and new IP was going to be an Xbox One exclusive, remember? Still, they pick up whatever pays the bills, hence their World of Tanks. Harebrained did something even worse for a while, which was the mobile crap.
The thing about Fargo in Interplay is that it was a big publisher, not a small or medium-sized developer looking for something to stay afloat. He filed for the IPO, cancelled several projects, switched focus to consoles, and we all know the result. I'm not sure now, but IIRC the only reason the french took over was because they needed cash and Fargo sold part of their own shares and Titus ended up with a majority.

If WL2 is a success on consoles, make no mistake: Fargo will flip in a heartbeat. I'm sure he never got over the fact that, if properly managed, it could've been Interplay enjoying ZeniMax's success right now.

 

[Infinitron]

The thing about Fargo in Interplay is that it was a big publisher, not a small or medium-sized developer looking for something to stay afloat. He filed for the IPO, cancelled several projects, switched focus to consoles, and we all know the result.

I think you're doing some reversing of cause and effect there.

BTW, Interplay's console studio, Shiny Entertainment, actually made some pretty decent games. Shame they didn't sell.

 

[Fairfax]

I think you're doing some reversing of cause and effect there.

BTW, Interplay's console studio, Shiny Entertainment, actually made some pretty decent games. Shame they didn't sell.

Most of Shiny's games were released on PC as well, and Messiah and Sacrifice bombed as PC exclusives. As for the cause and effect: Fargo wanted the entire company to switch focus to consoles, including Black Isle. It did happen eventually, but Fargo wanted to do it sooner, and that's one of the reasons he left.

On the whole, the reason Interplay crumbled was because of poor management, but if one wants to know the points where bad calls made, I'd say those are the most important ones. Still, it was the oldest tale in the industry: a few successful games are released, leadership gets too excited, hire too many people, don't keep enough cash - they have to pay the massive influx of people they're hiring, after all - and when things go to shit the company is not healthy enough to turn things around.
I mean, they had Interplay Films for several years and not a single film was made. Digital Mayhem burned money for five years and the dev team changed so much people probably lost count.

It almost happened to Obsidian, for example, and it could happen to them again.Just look at Sawyer's recent interview. They went from a low (pre-KS) of 75 to 200 employees now, and according to Feargus it costs $1 million a month to pay the bills. They almost tripled in size in 3 years, and people wonder why the vast majority of RPG studios will never be as successful as BioWare or Bethesda, and why Bethesda was the only studio with the cash to buy Fallout when Interplay went to shit.

But I digress. Just a minor rant on a topic I've always wanted to write about. Maybe one day I'll write a wall of text nobody will read.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Just a minor rant on a topic I've always wanted to write about.

You always wanted to write about a topic that you know nothing about?

 

[Irenaeus II]

Most of Shiny's games were released on PC as well, and Messiah and Sacrifice bombed as PC exclusives. As for the cause and effect: Fargo wanted the entire company to switch focus to consoles, including Black Isle. It did happen eventually, but Fargo wanted to do it sooner, and that's one of the reasons he left.

On the whole, the reason Interplay crumbled was because of poor management, but if one wants to know the points where bad calls made, I'd say those are the most important ones. Still, it was the oldest tale in the industry: a few successful games are released, leadership gets too excited, hire too many people, don't keep enough cash - they have to pay the massive influx of people they're hiring, after all - and when things go to shit the company is not healthy enough to turn things around.
I mean, they had Interplay Films for several years and not a single film was made. Digital Mayhem burned money for five years and the dev team changed so much people probably lost count.

It almost happened to Obsidian, for example, and it could happen to them again.Just look at Sawyer's recent interview. They went from a low (pre-KS) of 75 to 200 employees now, and according to Feargus it costs $1 million a month to pay the bills. They almost tripled in size in 3 years, and people wonder why the vast majority of RPG studios will never be as successful as BioWare or Bethesda, and why Bethesda was the only studio with the cash to buy Fallout when Interplay went to shit.

But I digress. Just a minor rant on a topic I've always wanted to write about. Maybe one day I'll write a wall of text nobody will read.

Good post.

 

[Fairfax]

You always wanted to write about a topic that you know nothing about?

If you say so. Interplay's history is well documented, same for the failures of smaller RPG devs, otherwise no one would've called for a CRPG renaissance a couple of years ago.
Doesn't apply to all of them, of course. Larian seems to be doing fine.

Good post.

Thanks.

 

[Aenra]

Fairfax this is not a fight you can win

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

If you say so. Interplay's history is well documented.

Yes, it is.

And yet you're confusing cause and effect to such an extent, its pretty obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Infinitron]

There's no doubt that Interplay was mismanaged in the 1990s. Just like Origin, New World Computing, Sir-Tech Software, and SSI. They all fucked up. It was a bad time and holding a grudge against Fargo for it seems pointless.

But I really don't see any evidence that Interplay's management was overly preoccupied with "consoles" before Herve took over. To wit, they cancelled Colin McComb's Planescape action-RPG for the Playstation, but let PS:T live.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

But I really don't see any evidence that Interplay's management was preoccupied with "consoles" before Herve took over. To wit, they cancelled Colin McComb's Planescape action-RPG for the Playstation, but let PS:T live.

Yup. Textbook confirmation bias. Fargo triggers my sleazy salesman detector, so I'll vaguely look into something he did 25 years ago, to come up with ways how it could make him new Hitler.

Even IF they would preoccpy with consoles...so what? Things were different then. Consoles actually kept up technologically. No one really gave a shit about platforms as long as the games were good. Console, PC, its a game.

The whole console vs. PC hostility is something coined up in late 2000s, by people who didn't even have hair on their balls when Interplay went down. Trying to look on the 80s-90s through 2015 lenses is an idea worthy of lobotomy.

 

[Douchebag]

I'm not sure now, but IIRC the only reason the french took over was because they needed cash and Fargo sold part of their own shares and Titus ended up with a majority.

I would go as far as saying Herve Caen got a very bad deal and did no wrong.

Why many RPG communities decided to vilify him is unfair, hypocritical when suddenly everyone elevates Fargo, the real responsible, to the position of a prophet. If we look closely he had a very successful business, the second Ubisoft, publishing some bad and good games but very financially healthy. He took a major risk and bought a sinking ship without knowing much about the American gaming development culture.
Interplay employees are also never blamed even thought they are the ones who decided to leave in droves because they wouldn't receive bonus pays for 1 or two years due to the financial situation of the company.
To this day Herve has been followed by a crippling debts that would have plagued Fargo had Herve not bailed him out (and European bankruptcy laws are not as forgiving as the American ones). And people still have the nerve to throw sarcastic comments when he holds on to IP rights and tried to squeeze some money from Bethesda among others.

It's a very old misconception that sticks to this day because of when he had to make unpopular decisions to keep the company afloat while Fargo washed his hands from all the troubles his mismanagement brought to Interplay. He even tried to stick to PCs unlike Fargo's radical console policy.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Irenaeus II]

The whole console vs. PC hostility is something coined up in late 2000s

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yep, I annihilated your incorrect world views with one sentence.

 

[Fairfax]

There's no doubt that Interplay was mismanaged in the 1990s. Just like Origin, New World Computing, Sir-Tech Software, and SSI. They all fucked up. It was a bad time and holding a grudge against Fargo for it seems pointless.

But I really don't see any evidence that Interplay's management was preoccupied with "consoles" before Herve took over. To wit, they cancelled Colin McComb's Planescape action-RPG for the Playstation, but let PS:T live.

Origin got the EA subsidiary treatment. It was doing alright before that. NWC relied on Might & Magic and was also acquired. Once M&M became less successful, the company suffered as a result, and 3DO was in bad shape too. It happens. They could've diversified their projects, but that's easier said than done, and it wasn't their call alone. SSI was the same. As for Sir-Tech I don't know the details, so I can't say. They were making good games till the very end.

Interplay was different because they didn't have to fail. They had great talent and successful divisions, but ambition and mismanagement killed it. They didn't have to insist on Interplay Films, sports games, studio acquisitions, switching to consoles, etc.
Just look at this article from 2002: The Saga Behind the Sagas: Interplay and the Business of Gaming

Like many companies, Interplay kept little cash on hand, and relied on credit agreements and revenue from game sales to operate. With fewer titles shipping, and problems with their credit agreements, Interplay had to find sources of cash and ways to cut costs.

Interplay Entertainment Corp, by its own admission, has been teetering dangerously close to the brink of bankruptcy, and was only recently pulled from the precipice when Infogrames Inc. agreed to purchase Interplay subsidiary Shiny Entertainment for approximately $47 million.

Interplay's bank line of credit (their borrowing program) relied on a $2 million guarantee from Fargo. The lender used $1 million of Fargo's cash to repay that program. Fargo also made a $3 million loan to the company in April 2001 that was due in May 2002. Interplay was also owed $2.5 million by a business controlled by Fargo. That was written off as a loss.

It's not about looking through 2015 lenses, and you just have to look at the failed companies next to the successful companies from that time to see the problems.
Run Like Hell (a PS2/Xbox game) is probably the best example of Interplay's poor management:

During its five year run, the team went through two executive producers, three producers, three lead programmers and two lead artists. They started out with the idea of a Resident Evil in space, but this was changed abruptly by upper management from survival horror to an action game. The aliens were weakened and made more numerous. In the end the game was scrapped by management again and restarted ten months before the release date. Thus, the game's actual programming was done in the space of ten months even though the game was in development for five years, which is one of the reasons that the story and characters seem fleshed out whereas the game play seems rushed and incomplete.

Anyway, I don't hold a grudge at all. As I said, it's something that happens in the industry all the time. The discussion began with someone suggesting InXile could eventually focus on consoles, and considering Fargo's record, I said it could definitely happen. I have nothing against the guy, but I'm not a fan either.