Company News Troika games sales figures

[Remax]

Just for the record, we are clear that my post was a joke, right?

Yup. That's why I added the wink. We're cool.

On that thread, I'm wondering where all the links are to Troika "blaming the publisher". I was going to post over on the Obsidian boards, since some of those guys REALLY hate Troika, but it looks like they are going to be shut down.

 

[Greatatlantic]

Wait, the developers hate Troika? Or do the posters? I mean, who could hate Troika? Besides the sales department of a publisher, of course... but thats another story. Its one thing to say that you didn't like the way their games turned out *cough*exitium*cough*. But to hate them? Its not like their Square Enix or some other big company that can't be ignored and whose games are a point of contention.

 

[bryce777]

I think they had a lot of talent artistically, storywise, and even in the programming department.

I sometimes wonder how a company that produced a game with such atrocious dialog and voice overs as existed in TOEE, managed to produce Bloodlines, which had some of the best voice over work and dialog I can remember.

The same could be said for the terrible isometric graphics of Arcanum compared to the (physical) beauty of the TOEE engine.

Perhaps in the end they failed because the only thing consistent about a Troika game were the bugs.

If they made any mistake, I think it is stretching themselves too thin.

 

[triCritical]

An interesting thing to note, is that while a lot of people are finding concrete faults with Troika's games, I think there is precedent to suggest this is an incorrect hypothesis for their demise. For instance, takes development studios like Sir Tech and Looking glass, which made very good, non buggy games that were critically acclaimed. Where are they now?

Bottomline is surely seems like there maybe more truth to the notion that non-mainstream games could be a recipe for disaster, for small development studios.

 

[bryce777]

An interesting thing to note, is that while a lot of people are finding concrete faults with Troika's games, I think there is precedent to suggest this is an incorrect hypothesis for their demise. For instance, takes development studios like Sir Tech and Looking glass, which made very good, non buggy games that were critically acclaimed. Where are they now?

Bottomline is surely seems like there maybe more truth to the notion that non-mainstream games could be a recipe for disaster, for small development studios.

One problem is just entropy in software companies.

It is hard, INCREDIBLY hard, to keep a good team together and to keep a useful codebase that isn't outdated.

A few people leaving, or one big mistake, and you are back to the drawing board.

 

[Volourn]

"It is hard, INCREDIBLY hard, to keep a good team together and to keep a useful codebase that isn't outdated."

Eh. Neither of those would be Troikian problems. What was their turnover rate? Obviously, they had no problem with keeping tech updated as they manged to push the Arcanum engine into something respectable - engine wise - with TOEE and Vampire evn with all its bugs sure looked and sounded like a modern game tech wise.

 

[triCritical]

It is hard, INCREDIBLY hard, to keep a good team together and to keep a useful codebase that isn't outdated.

I like Bethsoft's business model, or at least what i have heard of it through the PR. Essentially. Break the core team, on one particular software application into two sub teams. One works on O&M, in Bethesda's case, patches and expansion packs for current technology. While the other team works on new technology, ie. new engine.

I have been proposing a system like this at my work, which develops a lot of software, and not to mention our O&M is through the roof!

Acronym Glossary: O&M -> Operations and Maintenance

 

[bryce777]

"It is hard, INCREDIBLY hard, to keep a good team together and to keep a useful codebase that isn't outdated."

Eh. Neither of those would be Troikian problems. What was their turnover rate? Obviously, they had no problem with keeping tech updated as they manged to push the Arcanum engine into something respectable - engine wise - with TOEE and Vampire evn with all its bugs sure looked and sounded like a modern game tech wise.

Obviously I wasn't talking about troika, but every software company has those problems to some degree.

 

[bryce777]

It is hard, INCREDIBLY hard, to keep a good team together and to keep a useful codebase that isn't outdated.

I like Bethsoft's business model, or at least what i have heard of it through the PR. Essentially. Break the core team, on one particular software application into two sub teams. One works on O&M, in Bethesda's case, patches and expansion packs for current technology. While the other team works on new technology, ie. new engine.

I have been proposing a system like this at my work, which develops a lot of software, and not to mention our O&M is through the roof!

Acronym Glossary: O&M -> Operations and Maintenance

That is a common way to do things.

You also want to make sure you don't specialize too much, or else someone leaves and you will have to rewrite all the network code, or all the gui, or something.

 

[Remax]

Wait, the developers hate Troika? Or do the posters?.

Oh, sorry, I meant the posters. From some of the devs, like MCA, I gather some of THEM like Troika.

I mean, who could hate Troika? .

Well, ask the poster named Di over on the Obsidian boards. She says the people at Troika have been personally rude and arrogant to her, but I can't find any post where she says what happened. Has anyone here personally interacted with anyone from Troika? Were they rude and arrogant? Maybe that was their downfall...

 

[Calis]

Well, ask the poster named Di over on the Obsidian boards. She says the people at Troika have been personally rude and arrogant to her, but I can't find any post where she says what happened. Has anyone here personally interacted with anyone from Troika? Were they rude and arrogant? Maybe that was their downfall...

Di is full of shit. She brought up an incoherent argument about what developers owed her (mainly on the Arcanum release delay) and why the gender differences in Arcanum are sexist.
On the release date issue, Leon said "when it's done", which pissed her off royally. On the sexism issue, Sharon Shellman replied something along the lines of "I don't think it is, blah blah blah, but regardless, I think you're exaggerating wildly". Which she was, of course. THAT'S ALL. All this happened on the IGNBoards Arcanum Inn, by the way.

 

[Greatatlantic]

I see, thats interesting. I mean, would she rather the game released before its done? As Valve and DNF has shown, release dates don't mean a lot.

Thanks for the information. It seemed very bad class for a developer to trash another in public. Especially when those developers have quite a bit in common.

 

[Calis]

Di isn't a developer (thank god).

Edit: Oh, and I think some of that stuff may have happened on the Sierra Arcanum boards, and not the IGN one. Not sure though.

 

[Sol Invictus]

If she was, you could expect more romances in RPGs.

 

[Gromnir]

What's weird is that TOEE was in the top 10 upon release...

How accurate are those sales figures, anyway? Don't the early figures reflect shipments to retail locations instead of actual customer sales?

npd is strictly point of sales numbers with the larger american retailers. is not true numbers of sales by any means. we no longer have our subscription, so we cannot validate the numbers... but they looks like what we would expect. keep in mind that that the arcanum numbers will include sales after price drops n' such, and that bloodlines ain't been out long compared to the other two games... would be better if they narrowed to first two quarters results.

however, the npd numbers is useful as a comparison... compare to other crpgs. gives you relative strength of troika sales.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Kuato]

Bottomline is surely seems like there maybe more truth to the notion that non-mainstream games could be a recipe for disaster, for small development studios.

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/19991 ... ter_02.htm

Looks like small developers don't make any profits unless they can self fund. In the advance against royalties plan the publisher is loaning the money to the developer to fund the game, money the developer has to eventually pay back.