Turn Based Debate: WEGO vs. IGOUGO

[tomphonse]

CRPGs have mostly settled on IGOUGO for the execution of actions. Even most RTWP games to my knowledge have their second based "rounds" still work as an IGOUGO system under the hood. I am interested though if there is actually a demand for more WEGO games?

Notable IGOUGO Games:
Jagged Alliance 2
Fallout
Baldur's Gate 3
most turn based cRPGs and tactics games etc.

Notable WEGO Games:
Jagged Alliance: Back In Action
Combat Mission Series
Civilization V (multiplayer)
7.62 High Calibre
Brigade E5: New Jagged Union

 

[scytheavatar]

Phased combat has already been used in AD&D. The reason why everyone moves to chess style turn based is because phased combat is confusing and gets exponentially more confusing the more complexity and options you give the players. Some people love the randomness that phased combat adds and the narrative possibilities, but systems like D&D already have swingy combat designed into the dice rolls. The randomness squared quickly becomes unbearable for most people.

 

[soutaiseiriron]

I played JA2 not long ago and I felt the I go you go system kind of reduced the potential of actual tactical thinking and positioning especially (along with limited game mechanics). Mostly just meant you had to cheese more difficult encounters with interrupts and buildings, a "base of fire" doesn't really exist in JA2. Didn't know Brigade and 7.62 used that system, wonder if I'd enjoy that combat more or less.

 

[Glop_dweller]

I get the strong impression that many (if not most?) players do not perceive turn based combat in these (aforementioned) and other games as being momentary events that are stretched out for player benefit; the chance to use the UI and react based upon the actions of the prior turns in the round.

The characters would not themselves perceive the battle as linear turns; certainly not perceive themselves as awaiting motionless (immobilized) as their opponent approaches, and swings a melee weapon at them, or shoots them.

 

[tomphonse]

One of the major benefits of WEGO is how it allows for more nuanced handling of attacks of opportunity. In JA2 if you want to clear a building like this you are essentially forced to walk in the door and then catch a bullet in the head by an interrupt.

Well if JA2 was a WEGO game you could have Unit A move in through the front door and Unit B move in through the back door at the same time. Then if unit A suffers an interrupt it will be whilst being attacked by Unit B. If Unit B kills or staggers the enemy it essentially cancels their turn half way through. Similarly this could happen with attacks of opportunity in a game like Divinity when you move a character outside of being next to an enemy, when the enemy goes to attack their attack could be denied by your spellcaster.

 

[man_at_arms]

It's not as simple as one versus the other. It really depends on what the other systems and mechanics are in your game, and the level of abstraction.

I generally find that the higher the level of abstraction and the more general your instructions are rather than specific, the more WEGO is entertaining, as you witness your intent being interpreted by your friendly AI or another component like the physics engine.

WEGO in a game that is fine grain and involves giving orders for specific actions for specific individuals, like most tactical CRPGs, is probably a recipe for frustration.

On the other hand, there are strategic-level wargames like the AGEOD games that are quite fun as WEGO.