Underwhelming Character Builds

[Hagashager]

One that dissapointed me was a gunslinger in Legend of Grimrock 2. They go to the trouble of introducing flintlocks to LoG and then make them less powerful than bows, crossbows and most spells.

Trying to be a hybrid mage-mechanist in Arcanum. Yes, that's part of the lore, but man the game definitely doesn't let you compomise.

 

[HappyDaddyWow!]

Trying to be a hybrid mage-mechanist in Arcanum. Yes, that's part of the lore, but man the game definitely doesn't let you compromise

magic-tech hybrid is actually one of the strongest builds in Arcanum, it just requires a lot of game knowledge to pull it off

 

[KainenMorden]

Underwhelming - Rogue in NWN

Playing pure rogue in SF right now, I'd say it's actually a powerful class but not op like some casters and of course in general, rogues/thieves are not well represented in dnd crpgs for a number of reasons other posters have touched on here.

Rogues in Toee and IWD2 are far more underwhelming imho

 

[Average Manatee]

For most of D&D Rogues have been kind of the shit class that did nothing well but you had to drag along for traps. NWN2 is the worst with like 2/3rds of the game's enemies having immunity to being sneak attacked, so your rogue literally has their thumb up their ass hitting for 1d6+4 damage.

 

[KainenMorden]

For most of D&D Rogues have been kind of the shit class that did nothing well but you had to drag along for traps. NWN2 is the worst with like 2/3rds of the game's enemies having immunity to being sneak attacked, so your rogue literally has their thumb up their ass hitting for 1d6+4 damage.

Not familiar with NWN 2 but Rogues do have a lot of options in combat and can be strength based besides that they should be multi classed with a warrior class even if they are supposed to be primarily a Rogue. At high lvl, UMD is great to have but yes there are certainly downsides to the class depending on environment.

 

[Socrates]

Underwhelming - Rogue in NWN, Scoundrel in KotOR, spellcasters (and battlemages) in Morrowind, throwing in most games (it's strong in blobbers), etc.

Morrowind mages break the game utterly (levitation + ench). Playing without magic makes the game significantly harder. Underwhelming on the battlemage I agree however mostly because it takes longer for them to reach true potential.

 

[Average Manatee]

For most of D&D Rogues have been kind of the shit class that did nothing well but you had to drag along for traps. NWN2 is the worst with like 2/3rds of the game's enemies having immunity to being sneak attacked, so your rogue literally has their thumb up their ass hitting for 1d6+4 damage.

Not familiar with NWN 2 but Rogues do have a lot of options in combat and can be strength based besides that they should be multi classed with a warrior class even if they are supposed to be primarily a Rogue. At high lvl, UMD is great to have but yes there are certainly downsides to the class depending on environment.

Str rogues w/o sneak attack are just really bad str fighters

 

[True Ukrainian]

Rogues in NWN are meant to be your party's skill and disarm trap bot. Because of how resting works in the base game, there's no penalty for just pushing through traps, but in a proper campaign your party would be maimed without a rogue.

 

[just]

kotor 2 unarmed

 

[luj1]

Underwhelming - Rogue in NWN, Scoundrel in KotOR, spellcasters (and battlemages) in Morrowind, throwing in most games (it's strong in blobbers), etc.

Morrowind mages break the game utterly (levitation + ench). Playing without magic makes the game significantly harder. Underwhelming on the battlemage I agree however mostly because it takes longer for them to reach true potential.

That is silly. You dont have to be a mage to abuse levitation or enchanting. Any character can do this

 

[luj1]

Rogues in NWN are meant to be your party's skill and disarm trap bot.

yes

yet ppl play them like fighters

 

[KainenMorden]

They can definitely be played like fighters and aren't too bad, UMD helps a lot. Obviously this is dependent on environment but let's take SF as the environment, I'd rather be a pure Rogue at medium to high lvl than pure Fighter but to be fair, I've never played a pure Fighter in SF.

Also even without sneak arrack or UMD, you still have stealth, tumble and traps.

You will be a skill monkey basically by default but can also be fairly effective in combat.

 

[Average Manatee]

Rogues in NWN are meant to be your party's skill and disarm trap bot. Because of how resting works in the base game, there's no penalty for just pushing through traps, but in a proper campaign your party would be maimed without a rogue.

In 3rd ed D&D a wizard is far better since they have the int to max those extra rogue skills while being a fully capable combat class. They can also just summon something to tank traps.

Rogues in NWN are meant to be your party's skill and disarm trap bot.

yes

yet ppl play them like fighters

Because its a CRPG where 95% of your time is spent fighting through enemies.

 

[luj1]

a wizard is far better since they have the int to max those extra rogue skills

lol

 

[luj1]

They can definitely be played like fighters and aren't too bad

Ehh

 

[Snufkin]

Arcanum - Character centred around poison are absolute rubbish. Most of found schematics are downgrade and many spells are crap.

Avernum: Escape from the Pit - Ranged characters with bows and such are much weaker than melee or magic.

Neverwinter Nights - Finesse rogues with dumped strenght, does no dmg vs various undead.

 

[Sweeper]

Firearms build in Arcanum is the epitome of this subject.

 

[NecroLord]

One should preferably know what the game in question is all about, so as to avoid unnecessary skill allocation and other choices in character making.
Combat ability and some form of diplomacy are almost universally useful.

 

[KainenMorden]

I've played a Human mostly Wizard through SF and you get so many skill points but minimal class skills so taking dips in a skill heavy class is recommended but Wiz on its own isn't that great since so many useful skills are cross class. The other thing is like you and others have touched on, in general in crpgs thieves/rogues aren't as useful as pnp since traps are not as deadly, most locks can be bashed, many non combat skills aren't implemented or are implemented poorly, etc

I've played a Finesse mostly Rogue but had 12 Str so I guess it depends what you mean by dump, if you have 6-8 Str, well you made things hard on yourself. Again it's all contextual, so even if you have no UMD or are at low lvl and don't have some ranged or finesse weapon to deal some type of elemental/divine/positive damage to undead, there's always traps but personally I don't like to kite or use traps. I also don't see why you wouldn't have UMD or dip into a warrior class unless it's specifically for a challenge.

Anyway, yes thieves/rogues are the odd man out when compared to the holy Trinity of dnd but in NWN in particular they're pretty good atleast compared to other 3e dnd games of a similar vintage, especially because of how Tumble was implemented.

Perhaps Pierre was right to not include them in Kotc1 at all.

 

[Snufkin]

Firearms build in Arcanum is the epitome of this subject.

Thats just not true. You can craft Elephant gun already in Shrouded Hills if you really push it. Does about same dmg as Harm spell with 100 MA.

 

[Butter]

Charisma/Personality builds are generally shit.

 

[HappyDaddyWow!]

OP charisma/speech builds are totally fine

Modern developers obsession with game balance is partly why RPGs are so boring now

 

[Sweeper]

Firearms build in Arcanum is the epitome of this subject.

Thats just not true. You can craft Elephant gun already in Shrouded Hills if you really push it. Does about same dmg as Harm spell with 100 MA.

To get the most out of firearms you have to spread out your points among various attributes, skills and tech disciplines, when you can achieve a better result by rolling a retarded half-ogre with a fraction of the investment.
Harm spam requires even less of an investment than melee.
Late game the AP cost of the elephant gun is still outshined by melee + 20 str or harm spam.

 

[NecroLord]

Definitely put some points into Throwing and go for the Explosives discipline.
You can make all sorts of useful grenades, like the stun grenade and paralysis grenade (you can buy this schematic from gunshops).
The Stun Grenade alone is OP, it just stuns, no saving throw or chance to avoid it.

 

[NecroLord]

Charisma/Personality builds are generally shit.

A Paladin would disagree with that assessment.