Warcraft III: A good RTS?

[Thrasher]

I did already. My questions were more general though, pertaining to the RTS genre as whole, that lead from my WC3 newb experience.

See above.

 

[Oarfish]

Sword of the stars is pretty damn good (with the BOB expansion) if you want a slower paced game. Plenty of tactical variety, good AI and the random tech trees and events mean you can't just spam the same strategy every game.

 

[Trash]

Sword of the stars got boring extremely quick even with the expansion. It felt like a poor man's rt master of orion to me. It had some good idea's, but in the end it just didn't gel into a fun gameplay experience to me.

 

[pkt-zer0]

I didn't see Dark Omen and Ground Control mentioned before. So here they are.

 

[Kortalh]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned any of Relic's games: Specifically Homeworld 2, Dawn of War, and Company of Heroes.

While the games aren't necessarily slow-paced, they all have the ability to pause the game and issue orders. If you're not up for a click-fest, you can play the entire game by pausing every 3 seconds if you want. As you get more comfortable, you can use it less.

On top of that, they're among the most deep and inventive RTS games out there.

 

[Annonchinil]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned any of Relic's games: Specifically Homeworld 2, Dawn of War, and Company of Heroes.

While the games aren't necessarily slow-paced, they all have the ability to pause the game and issue orders. If you're not up for a click-fest, you can play the entire game by pausing every 3 seconds if you want. As you get more comfortable, you can use it less.

On top of that, they're among the most deep and inventive RTS games out there.

HW2 and DoW aren't that good as some of their other games.
Get CoH and HW1 instead.

Better yet for real time get Close Combat, for RB get Combat Mission.

 

[barker_s]

Check Star Wars : Empire at War.

 

[Korgan]

Empire at War is ok, esp. with the expansion. Also, my favorite "dumb" RTS is Battle for Middle Earth. True to the movie if not the book, consistently designed and still beautiful.

 

[silver crowaxe]

Red Alert 2 is good fun as well, hilarious single-player.

 

[MaskedMartyr]

Or should I try a turned-based like Galactic Civ or Civ or Alpha Centauri?

Don't touch GalCiv. The ship design is pointless, the combat is a boring statgrind, the economy is beyond stupid (The only real economy that works in the game is mass trade), etc etc Even Free Orion has a cooler techtree.

Alpha Centauri on the other hand, that works out quite well.

Also in b4 Sins of A Solar Empire, those modders really need to pick up the pace.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Ground Control and Emperor: Battle for Dune

 

[JarlFrank]

Or should I try a turned-based like Galactic Civ or Civ or Alpha Centauri?

Don't touch GalCiv. The ship design is pointless, the combat is a boring statgrind, the economy is beyond stupid (The only real economy that works in the game is mass trade), etc etc Even Free Orion has a cooler techtree.

Alpha Centauri on the other hand, that works out quite well.

Also in b4 Sins of A Solar Empire, those modders really need to pick up the pace.

Why doesn't anyone recommend Master of Orion 2?

It's the best space 4x game ever.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

It's my first, and I'm quite hating the gameplay. It seems to be about how well you know the multitude of keyboard shortcuts, and how fast you can micromanage lots of details using the shortcuts. Very little about strategy, and tactics are impossible until you master speedy micromanagement.

AGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
NOW LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE YOU MADE MY BRAIN BLEED

 

[MaskedMartyr]

Ground Control and Emperor: Battle for Dune

Dune 2000 is superior. Emperor plays clunky, sides are rather imbalanced (as well as sub-factions), it was basically everything that was bad about Generals.

I prefer GC2 anyways, the tactical gameplay is more interesting even if it has a retarded point system (well not retarded, but it just seems out of place).

Or should I try a turned-based like Galactic Civ or Civ or Alpha Centauri?

Don't touch GalCiv. The ship design is pointless, the combat is a boring statgrind, the economy is beyond stupid (The only real economy that works in the game is mass trade), etc etc Even Free Orion has a cooler techtree.

Alpha Centauri on the other hand, that works out quite well.

Also in b4 Sins of A Solar Empire, those modders really need to pick up the pace.

Why doesn't anyone recommend Master of Orion 2?

It's the best space 4x game ever.

Well its old as fuck.

 

[DraQ]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned any of Relic's games

Try Homeworld

 

[dragonfk]

Or maybe you should try Spellforce.

 

[Thrasher]

Well I'm finally getting the hang of the necessary shortcuts and grouping keys to make the game manageable, and through the constant state of panic, it's starting to be fun. But what a fucking depressing story!

The manual was so weak on the essentials.

I got through the human campaign, and now the undead campaign is a real pain in the ass. A hero that's practically worth nothing. And such weak units. I've had to use runaway tactics more than I'd like to admit.

My completist nature will force me to finish (anyone interested in buying a used battlechest when I'm done?)

EDIT: Homeworld has sounded appealing for a while. Is it still available with a manual and runnable on XP?

EDIT 2: Yes, I think. Does the DVD case version include a full manual?

 

[LCJr.]

Why doesn't anyone recommend Master of Orion 2?

It's the best space 4x game ever.

Well its old as fuck.

So are you saying a games quality of play is determined only by it's age?

 

[bat_boro]

You should really try Knights of Honor - it's slow paced, deep and fun to play, plus it's got great 2D graphics and brilliant OST.
Sins of a Solar Empire is quite good, also. But I really recommend you to find the Knights of Honor demo and try it.

 

[Aothan]

If you are looking for a slow paced rts, without base building, you could always try Mark of Chaos and the recent expansion Battle March.

I was a former advocate of the game, it is still quite fun, but there is an incredible lack of balance between the armies, no point/restriction buy system ensuring numerous exploitive designs and the player base is really small.

But it is okay, I had a lot of fun, and now am waiting ambivalently for the US release of Battle March, when if a patch is going to be released will be at that time (September).

Dawn of War is very clicky, but it is such an excellent game to play online I play QS and/or FFAs whenever possible. The former is somewhat looked down upon, but just like Starcraft with money maps, the strategy shifts emphasis onto power builds, early attacks, mass teching etc It can be gimmicky but I need to play with Dreadnaughts as soon as possible

 

[RTS_Addict]

So all RTS's are about fast shortcut skillz and micromanagement?

All RTS games have those aspects to them, but they are by no means the primary determinant of victory. Its about decision making under a very tight time constraint.

Now, you do need to be able to control your forces effectively in a timely manner so if memorizing hot keys and fast mouse movement isn't to your taste then you can give up your search because RTS are just not for you.

Warcraft 3 is probably the most difficult RTS out there to master. It is a very good RTS, and it has a great community and support, but it is really tough to get to grips with.

The good news is it is very rewarding if you are willing to put the effort in. Your first stop should be WCreplays.com and watch some of the replays with audio shoutcasts. This will allow you see what a pro does as well as have someone to explain to you why the players are doing what they are doing.

 

[Thrasher]

I completed the undead campaign and am on the 4th orc campaign.

The last undead chapter was a total bitch. Must have taken me 6 tries. Almost gave up. Maybe I should have played it more offensively and gone after one of the alliance bases early on. Didn't feel I had the wherewithal to manage 3 attacks in parallel in addition to building and rebuilding...

I have to REALLY be in the right frame of mind to play this (jacked up on joe and well rested).

I'm alternating with Wizardry 8 ; allows time for thoughtful tactics, rather than kneejerk reactions and clicking/hotkeying frenzies.

 

[kingcomrade]

Are you joking? Warcraft 3 is an easy game. There is exactly one mission that should ever give anyone any trouble: The Frozen Throne Fail Elf one where you have to kill the four naga witch things within a short time limit. And maybe the very last FT undead mission, but that one isn't that hard.

 

[Thrasher]

Um, maybe for you it's easy but for me that last undead chapter was hard as hell. The rush at the end from 3 alliance battle groups wiped me out everytime.

 

[RTS_Addict]

Are you joking? Warcraft 3 is an easy game. There is exactly one mission that should ever give anyone any trouble

I was referring to playing the game competitively on battlenet. Sorry for the confusion.