I congratulate you Outlander just when I thought I couldn't be more pessimistic about RPGs you managed to open my mind to new levels of decline. Atleast I can watch ME3 fans complain about how much RPGs have declined in that space of time.
complicated interfaces and sharp learning curves.
Sea, I am dissapoint. It's not been that long since last NWN2 expansions and DA:Origins, and I wouldn't exactly say that the interfaces of BG/Fallout were much more complicated than those. Hell, Fallout 1 has a simpler interface than New Vegas. Also, Fallout 1/2 only sold a few 100K copies if I'm not misinformed.They also came from a time when most games could get away with being 2D, having complicated interfaces and sharp learning curves. They're excellent games but in a lot of ways, the games industry and expectations for games has moved on. The obsession with ease of use, streamlining/simplification, cinematic cutscenes, Hollywood-style storytelling and moving away from tabletop-style rules means that the current RPG market and its fans are different from what they were 10-15 years ago.
Was it bad when it was time of Fallout and Baldur's gate, and when they were considered relatively "mainstream"?
I actually remember Baldur's Gate being considered a bizarre throwback by some of the Quake/Unreal multiplayer-fixated PC gaming crowd of that era. You had reviewers complaining about the lack of "multiplayer deathmatch maps".
Perhaps I didn't explain myself well. What I meant to say was that while there is a traditional RPG audience, it's not really enough to sell millions upon millions that most publishers expect or want. Until the mainstream games industry realizes it can't continue exclusively with the "throw tons of money at something and hope it works to make up for everything else that flops" method of producing games, we aren't going to see publishers supporting those sorts of titles.Sea, I am dissapoint. It's not been that long since last NWN2 expansions and DA:Origins, and I wouldn't exactly say that the interfaces of BG/Fallout were much more complicated than those. Hell, Fallout 1 has a simpler interface than New Vegas. Also, Fallout 1/2 only sold a few 100K copies if I'm not misinformed.They also came from a time when most games could get away with being 2D, having complicated interfaces and sharp learning curves. They're excellent games but in a lot of ways, the games industry and expectations for games has moved on. The obsession with ease of use, streamlining/simplification, cinematic cutscenes, Hollywood-style storytelling and moving away from tabletop-style rules means that the current RPG market and its fans are different from what they were 10-15 years ago.
The RPG fanbase hasn't so much "moved on" as it's been mislabelled upon the millions of console gamers that consider Skyrim and ME to be finest examples of the genre. I'm sure a "traditional" RPG could sell Fallout 1/2 numbers, if not significantly more. No, not enough for a next-gen "have to sell 3M or flush our whole studio down the toilet"-game, but the market clearly has room for other types of games.
If anything, the market is a far better place for those kinds of games as it's possible to market and deliver them to your fans without spending a fortune on advertising and sucking retailer's cocks.
Well, if you see, the Wasteland 2 suggestions page, many of the people anticipating this game are not far off from that description.Who the fuck wants traditional CRPGs to become mainstream anyway? I don't think a single person waiting for Wasteland 2 is thinking "gee, I really like this Wasteland thing, but what if it was a shooter instead."
Perhaps I didn't explain myself well. What I meant to say was that while there is a traditional RPG audience, it's not really enough to sell millions upon millions that most publishers expect or want. Until the mainstream games industry realizes it can't continue exclusively with the "throw tons of money at something and hope it works to make up for everything else that flops" method of producing games, we aren't going to see publishers supporting those sorts of titles.Sea, I am dissapoint. It's not been that long since last NWN2 expansions and DA:Origins, and I wouldn't exactly say that the interfaces of BG/Fallout were much more complicated than those. Hell, Fallout 1 has a simpler interface than New Vegas. Also, Fallout 1/2 only sold a few 100K copies if I'm not misinformed.They also came from a time when most games could get away with being 2D, having complicated interfaces and sharp learning curves. They're excellent games but in a lot of ways, the games industry and expectations for games has moved on. The obsession with ease of use, streamlining/simplification, cinematic cutscenes, Hollywood-style storytelling and moving away from tabletop-style rules means that the current RPG market and its fans are different from what they were 10-15 years ago.
The RPG fanbase hasn't so much "moved on" as it's been mislabelled upon the millions of console gamers that consider Skyrim and ME to be finest examples of the genre. I'm sure a "traditional" RPG could sell Fallout 1/2 numbers, if not significantly more. No, not enough for a next-gen "have to sell 3M or flush our whole studio down the toilet"-game, but the market clearly has room for other types of games.
If anything, the market is a far better place for those kinds of games as it's possible to market and deliver them to your fans without spending a fortune on advertising and sucking retailer's cocks.
hose fans of more traditional RPGs haven't "moved on" so to speak, but there is a whole new generation of RPG fans who are used to the more modern titles of BioWare and Bethesda, and that's the new target market publishers are aiming for.
I actually remember Baldur's Gate being considered a bizarre throwback by some of the Quake/Unreal multiplayer-fixated PC gaming crowd of that era. You had reviewers complaining about the lack of "multiplayer deathmatch maps".
Just proving that gaming journalists haven't declined, they've always been trendfag morons.
Bros, you live in a world where a gaming site will ask people what the most important games of all time are, and you will get at least 40 mentions of Angry Birds and Wii Sports, and maybe 5 of any Bioware game. Yeah.
Was it bad when it was time of Fallout and Baldur's gate, and when they were considered relatively "mainstream"?
On the other hand:I actually remember Baldur's Gate being considered a bizarre throwback by some of the Quake/Unreal multiplayer-fixated PC gaming crowd of that era. You had reviewers complaining about the lack of "multiplayer deathmatch maps".
Joby said:There will be a blend of active and passive skill use. You shouldn't need to manage your party with an Excel sheet, but at the same time we do want you to need to manage various aspects of your party. For example, water will be vital (as it should in a post-apocalyptic environment) and there should be times when you need to decide if you should travel together or split your party up and have the fastest who can purify water and find food head into the wilderness as your team continues on to a time critical distress call, and then hope they can catch up with supplies before the party is consumed by the desert. There should be hard choices with severe consequences.
The last thing we want is a form of Dungeon Siege where once you start, all you have to do is keep moving forward to finish. Hopefully, this game won't be about getting the quests done the fastest and gloating to your friends that you finished the game. Hopefully, you'll be faced with challenges that need to be dealt with, not quests to be completed. If the forums are filled with "What did you do here..." discussions rather than "This is how you complete this quest..." summaries, then we did our job in making Wasteland a proper 'Old School' RPG.