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What caused the death of turn based combat rpgs?
- Thread starter Andhaira
- Start date
Blackadder said:
Actually TB can be much faster then rtwp, just turn off animations, just couple options are needed:
walking npc animations on/off
slow fast fastest
attack npc animations on/off
slow fast fastest
show npc actions on/off
show npc actions of those that attack you on/off
show npc actions of those that attack anybody on/off
Your walking animations on/off
slow fast fastest
Your attack animations on/off
slow fast fastest
Wyrmlord said:
Hammer and Sickle came later, so the graphics were outdated at that time, which might be one probable reason. Also, H&S was a LOT more difficult, you could fuck the game up very very easily, you couldn't hire new teammates that easily etc. It was generally more difficult and unforgiving and had some more RPG elements that weren't implemented that well, though. Silent Storm was just a straight tactical combat game, you assemble a team and go on missions. Hammer and Sickle tried something different, and the mainstream press didn't like it.
obediah
Erudite
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2005
- Messages
- 5,051
Qwinn said:
Fallout : +5 interesting for AP system
Fallout: -5 tactical for corner peek-a-boo
Goldbox: +5 tactical for spell placement
Goldbox: +5 tactical for sweep
Goldbox: +50 tactical for doorways
Goldbox: ah fuck it, +500000 tactical for party system
Fallout is more interesting, but goldbox wins tactical in a landslide.
Qwinn
Scholar
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2008
- Messages
- 666
Er, "Sweep" was operative in, what, 4 areas in the very first Goldbox game, and never again? And that offsets AP? Don't think so.
Erm, nothing in this respect that didn't also work in Fallout, depending on the terrain. Actually, in Fallout, you could actually -close- a door, unlike Goldbox. I'd have to say advantage Fallout on that one.
I do prefer being able to control the party over AI control, but + half a million's a bit much.
Not all -that- different from "don't spray Sulik with that SMG".
Let me add one:
Fallout: +1,289,542 for critical hits.
Fallout wins.
Qwinn
obediah
Erudite
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2005
- Messages
- 5,051
Qwinn said:
Hmm, I thought I used it more than that. But it was a long time ago and you just played it. Either I'm forgetful or you're an idiot.
Like using your warrior(s) to block a door or hallway so your casters and archers can work their magic?
I'm countering with a billion - tactics without a team is just a rambo simulator.
Except that in goldbox games, the members of your team are useful and you keep them alive to win the game rather than handicap yourself.
Fallout wins in gore, graphics, animation, kewl weapons, kewl armor, and "thank god for that critical hit, I almost had to reload!"
PorkaMorka
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 5,090
Wyrmlord said:
They probably couldn't get past the first map, I know it took me about 45 mins to pass it.
bhlaab
Erudite
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2008
- Messages
- 1,787
I'm going to say Baldur's Gate did it.
Fallout was this close to setting a trend with the "return" of TB, but Baldur's Gate came along with realtime w/ pause and screwed it. Also the rise of realtime strategy over turn based strategy.
These things just kind of culminated to give turn based the stigma of being antiquated and old
Fallout was this close to setting a trend with the "return" of TB, but Baldur's Gate came along with realtime w/ pause and screwed it. Also the rise of realtime strategy over turn based strategy.
These things just kind of culminated to give turn based the stigma of being antiquated and old
Zomg
Arbiter
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2005
- Messages
- 6,984
I think a lot of traditional TB fans are just people that just want to chew cud rather than play a game, which is why that's what 99.9% of non- set piece fights in typical RPGs emulate. Easy RTw/P or easy RT works just as well for those people and doesn't also immediately alienate meatheads as aggressively as TB does.
CarnivalBizarre
Augur
AndhairaX said:
Yeah, it's not because it is impossible to make a board game like chess real time without making it a sport
Turn based comes from the non computer games...
CarnivalBizarre
Augur
Wyrmlord said:
Hammer and Sickle was a mod made a game, and graphicallly it shows alot which mainstream is all about. And I seem to recall shitloads of bugs and ways to break the game also. Never did finish that one. But silent storm had serious problem as well. The characters you could hire after time went by was much better than any of your soldiers could ever become regardless how many missions they took.
There was a mod that set a minimum level of skills and increased them to that level, but basically that took all individuallity out of it. Too bad, solid fun silent storm though.
PorkaMorka
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 5,090
It's simple
It's very expensive to make games with modern graphics and sound. In the old days you could have 1-2 guys do all the sprites.
So you need to sell a lot of units to pay for those modern graphics and sound.
So you cannot make games for a niche genre like turn based tactics while having fully modern graphics and sound.
In the West, turn based tactics is a niche genre.
In Japan it is less niche, which is why you still see some turn based tactical rpgs on console, although not all of them get translated.
But once you've made a game for japanese market, translating it for the west can make sense, especially if it's for a portable system and you dont need to do voices.
The only failure on the part of business is that they are ignoring the possibility of producing games with less than top level graphics and sound to target niche markets.
But sales of PC turn based tactical rpgs have not been good due to many of the recent ones sucking ass, so its a needless risk for companies, really.
It's very expensive to make games with modern graphics and sound. In the old days you could have 1-2 guys do all the sprites.
So you need to sell a lot of units to pay for those modern graphics and sound.
So you cannot make games for a niche genre like turn based tactics while having fully modern graphics and sound.
In the West, turn based tactics is a niche genre.
In Japan it is less niche, which is why you still see some turn based tactical rpgs on console, although not all of them get translated.
But once you've made a game for japanese market, translating it for the west can make sense, especially if it's for a portable system and you dont need to do voices.
The only failure on the part of business is that they are ignoring the possibility of producing games with less than top level graphics and sound to target niche markets.
But sales of PC turn based tactical rpgs have not been good due to many of the recent ones sucking ass, so its a needless risk for companies, really.
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