Why does the PoE retail version use STEAM?

[Lucky]

I found a retail version of Pillars of Eternity in my local shop so I thought about buying it ahead of schedule, until I spotted the tiny letters that mentioned the disk needing steam. I did a bit of research and it seems like the disk is just a steam installation, with no actual 'game' on the disk itself. However, I also found that that Obsidian guaranteed a DRM-free DVD for backers. Anyone know why the regular DVD is not DRM-free, while the backer version is? I soured on inXile for doing the same thing when I got gifted a retail copy of Wasteland 2. I'd been hoping that the kickstarter games would stop going along with putting restrictive DRM on retail disks.

 

[Janslin]

Because Paradox sucks poo and has a love affair with Valve is pretty much why.

Unfortunately a DRM free DVD is not available to non backers. The backers actually just received their disks recently (nearly 3 months after game launch), and so far we don't have a way to patch the installation (fail on Obsidian's part so far).

DRM free PoE is available in digital form over at GoG.com.

 

[Roguey]

a) Curbs pre-release piracy. Valve has essential files so someone can't just make an iso of the disc and upload it for people to play before anyone can buy it.

b) Dummy-proof, effort-free patching. Back in the old days, you had to hope that the end user would periodically go to the developer's website and download a patch. With Steam, those updates happen automatically. Moreover, they require no effort on the developer's part except to upload the new build to Valve's servers, which automatically handle the changes. GOG does it manually, which is why their patches always lag behind Steam's.

 

[theSavant]

Haha /fail
Never trust Popamole

 

[Roguey]

Haha /fail
Never trust Popamole

You'll be hard-pressed to find a retail release that doesn't use Steam for the reasons I listed. D:OS and Wasteland 2 use it too.

 

[evdk]

Should have KS'd this on a physical reward tier, bro.

 

[Lucky]

But I thought that Obsidian owned the game and that their deal with Paradox only consisted of bug testing, product manufacturing and shipping? Why would Paradox not releasing games anymore without steam have any impact on the way Pillars of Eternity got shipped? Larian I know would cut-out retail altogether if they could, but I thought Obsidian at least still had enough gamer-heart to release mostly DRM free when physical releases come up.

Releasing games like this is standard now, but I thought that the whole kickstarter business meant that Obsidian wanted to move away from that. It doesn’t matter to me since I’m not that interested in the game and was only thinking of possibly getting it with all the expansions released and the price lowered, but the thought of playing a game without having to go through all the on-line hassle rather appealed to me. I guess I might pick up the full release on GoG eventually when it goes on sale.

a) Curbs pre-release piracy. Valve has essential files so someone can't just make an iso of the disc and upload it for people to play before anyone can buy it.

b) Dummy-proof, effort-free patching. Back in the old days, you had to hope that the end user would periodically go to the developer's website and download a patch. With Steam, those updates happen automatically. Moreover, they require no effort on the developer's part except to upload the new build to Valve's servers, which automatically handle the changes. GOG does it manually, which is why their patches always lag behind Steam's.

The retail version had a staggered release, so no pre-release piracy, plus a GoG version without DRM was available at launch. A steam-only game would have been cracked in no time, anyway. Having the option of manual patches also makes it easy to rollback changes that harm the game and means that you can use them on a computer without an internet connection. Giving people the option to auto-patch is fine, but requiring it unnecessarily limits the options of the consumer.

None of that even matters here since they did eventually make a DRM-free disk, but decided against having that be the product available in store. I’m used to publishers being addicted to steam activation, but going through the trouble of making separate DVDs for retail and backers baffles me.

Should have KS'd this on a physical reward tier, bro.

Eh, they seemed to be promising too much with too little and they had quite a lot of backers already, so I didn't back. I'm waiting to see how the sequel turns out.

 

[Sensuki]

I have a DRM-Free non-patchable version I am willing to part with!!!!111

It's also N.I.B

 

[evdk]

But I thought that Obsidian owned the game and that their deal with Paradox only consisted of bug testing, product manufacturing and shipping? Why would Paradox not releasing games anymore without steam have any impact on the way Pillars of Eternity got shipped? Larian I know would cut-out retail altogether if they could, but I thought Obsidian at least still had enough gamer-heart to release mostly DRM free when physical releases come up.

Releasing games like this is standard now, but I thought that the whole kickstarter business meant that Obsidian wanted to move away from that. It doesn’t matter to me since I’m not that interested in the game and was only thinking of possibly getting it with all the expansions released and the price lowered, but the thought of playing a game without having to go through all the on-line hassle rather appealed to me. I guess I might pick up the full release on GoG eventually when it goes on sale.

You do understand that gamers at large do not mind Steam so Obsidian has nothing to move away from.

 

[Raghar]

I found a retail version of Pillars of Eternity in my local shop so I thought about buying it ahead of schedule, until I spotted the tiny letters that mentioned the disk needing steam. I did a bit of research and it seems like the disk is just a steam installation, with no actual 'game' on the disk itself. However, I also found that that Obsidian guaranteed a DRM-free DVD for backers. Anyone know why the regular DVD is not DRM-free, while the backer version is? I soured on inXile for doing the same thing when I got gifted a retail copy of Wasteland 2. I'd been hoping that the kickstarter games would stop going along with putting restrictive DRM on retail disks.

Grab it from GoG. While they sucks for selling old games, which should already be changed into freeware status, they at least releasing recent games without restrictions.

 

[Lucky]

You do understand that gamers at large do not mind Steam so Obsidian has nothing to move away from.

It's the whole giving the customer an inferior product compared to the cracked version in the name of copy-protection, that I'm referring to. Obsidian is on GoG, so I figured they didn't see it that way. That and the DRM-free disks are what confuse me about this. Sure, a lot of the steam-crowd doesn't care about that, but that group doesn't care about the state of gaming, period. In fact, many gamers their only concern is getting the game that they want and how easy it is to get said game, whether gaming moves away from on-line requirements or made them even more strict is simply irrelevant to them, so they don't actually give a shit and aren't a factor when talking about how games should be released, since they'd just switch to whatever is the most convenient.

Grab it from GoG. While they sucks for selling old games, which should already be changed into freeware status, they at least releasing recent games without restrictions.

Pretty much. All the old games they have, that I like, I already have old disks of, so no need to buy them again. Only new games and the occasional rare game that is still owned by the original developer

 

[Roguey]

The retail version had a staggered release, so no pre-release piracy, plus a GoG version without DRM was available at launch.

Pre-release piracy is a far, far greater concern than day-one piracy.

A steam-only game would have been cracked in no time, anyway. Having the option of manual patches also makes it easy to rollback changes that harm the game and means that you can use them on a computer without an internet connection. Giving people the option to auto-patch is fine, but requiring it unnecessarily limits the options of the consumer.

One can get Steam games without DRM outside of the key check/initial download. That's how Wasteland 2, D:OS, and Shadowrun Returns (after a period of required DRM) work. Unfortunately not the case with Pillars, even though other Paradox games are Steam DRM-free. I tried to make some noise about this, but no one at Obsidian responded with their reasoning.

None of that even matters here since they did eventually make a DRM-free disk, but decided against having that be the product available in store. I’m used to publishers being addicted to steam activation, but going through the trouble of making separate DVDs for retail and backers baffles me.

PC retail is nearly-dead everywhere except Europe. At this point it's a courtesy for the few remaining.

 

[Lucky]

Pre-release piracy is a far, far greater concern than day-one piracy.

One can get Steam games without DRM outside of the key check/initial download. That's how Wasteland 2, D:OS, and Shadowrun Returns (after a period of required DRM) work. Unfortunately not the case with Pillars, even though other Paradox games are Steam DRM-free. I tried to make some noise about this, but no one at Obsidian responded with their reasoning.

PC retail is nearly-dead everywhere except Europe. At this point it's a courtesy for the few remaining.

Don’t agree with you on that, but that’s a different discussion. Also disks also requiring a check or download to me just defeats the purpose of buying a physical copy, so I don’t do it when they have it. Weird to hear though that the Pillars copy on steam requires an internet connection, if I understand correctly, when they’re also on GoG. Reminds me of them mentioning that Paradox was being difficult about giving Obsidian the profits for the steam-sales, which Paradox supposedly gets first since they’re listed as the publisher. Paradox seems to have a lot more to say in general than how Obisidian described their deal suggested.

Also, you’d be surprised actually. You can still find a lot of good retail shops in mainland Europe, especially in central Europe, and then there's Japan, too (doujin and console games mostly, though). It’s Britain, Australia and the US where it's a pain to find anything.

 

[Roguey]

Also disks also requiring a check or download to me just defeats the purpose of buying a physical copy, so I don’t do it when they have it.

After it's installed you can move it to a flash drive or whatever.

Weird to hear though that the Pillars copy on steam requires an internet connection, if I understand correctly, when they’re also on GoG. Reminds me of them mentioning that Paradox was being difficult about giving Obsidian the profits for the steam-sales, which Paradox supposedly gets first since they’re listed as the publisher. Paradox seems to have a lot more to say in general than how Obisidian described their deal suggested.

I don't think Paradox is to blame http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Big_List_of_DRM-Free_Games_on_Steam#Paradox_Development_Studio

Every Paradox Development Studio game is DRM-free and even some they publish (Paradox Interactive).
Paradox stated many times their developed games are and will be DRM-free.

It would make no sense for them to enforce it on this one when they don't even force it on their own. Probably an Urquhart thing.

 

[Lucky]

After it's installed you can move it to a flash drive or whatever.

Tried that. Mixed results. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it works for a bit and then it stops working. Same for Offline-mode. I don't like relying on it.

I don't think Paradox is to blame http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Big_List_of_DRM-Free_Games_on_Steam#Paradox_Development_Studio

It would make no sense for them to enforce it on this one when they don't even force it on their own. Probably an Urquhart thing.

That's just bizarre. Kind of hard to gauge what Obsidian their DRM-policy is then, as they're not consistent either way. I just hope they at least continue to publish games on GoG.

 

[Kz3r0]

"Of course, one of the greatest things about digital distribution is what it does to reduce the used game market," Avellone told Eurogamer sister site IndustryGamers.

"I hope digital distribution stabs the used game market in the heart."
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...tribution-stabs-used-game-market-in-the-heart
Get real guys, developers in general are more pro DRM than publishers.

 

[Roguey]

"Of course, one of the greatest things about digital distribution is what it does to reduce the used game market," Avellone told Eurogamer sister site IndustryGamers.

"I hope digital distribution stabs the used game market in the heart."
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...tribution-stabs-used-game-market-in-the-heart
Get real guys, developers in general are more pro DRM than publishers.

That's not pro-DRM, it's anti-Gamestop. He's fine with GOG.

 

[Morality Games]

No idea why publishers and developers hate used games when the bottom line is that the people who rely on them simply aren't going to buy your games otherwise 9/10, if not less often than that.

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

Don't get why people hate Steam so much. I actually enjoy having my game in the cloud and also my save games.

 

[Roguey]

People buy a game, sell it back to gamestop a week/a few weeks/a month later, the store sells it at a small discount, people buy that copy instead, money made by the publisher/dev in this transaction: zero.

Whereas when the not-used game is discounted at least they're still making money from that. This practice has resulted in a) using day/month-one DLC to recoup costs and b) games getting discounted a lot faster than they used to. B is good for the consumer, A not so much.

Skyrim made a lot of heads turn because it sold millions of copies and all those people refused to give those copies up. It was still $60 a year after release which is pretty much unheard of.

 

[Morality Games]

People buy a game, sell it back to gamestop a week/a few weeks/a month later, the store sells it at a small discount, people buy that copy instead, money made by the publisher/dev in this transaction: zero.

Whereas when the not-used game is discounted at least they're still making money from that. This practice has resulted in a) using day/month-one DLC to recoup costs and b) games getting discounted a lot faster than they used to. B is good for the consumer, A not so much.

Skyrim made a lot of heads turn because it sold millions of copies and all those people refused to give those copies up. It was still $60 a year after release which is pretty much unheard of.

The first point doesn't amount to much because the number of purchasers who wait several weeks to buy a game for $8 less is fractions of the total used game market. Most people who rely on used games are a full generation behind, so they don't have the ability to play those games even if they wanted to buy them.

The second has some viability. Obviously there's something to be said for making a few dollars selling something on sale than nothing.

Its still petty minded and small. Used games are huge demographic's (the urban poor's) anchor to "real" video gaming industry, which means when they graduate to a higher income they have a platform to expand off of to develop their libraries.

Remove that, and you'll remove one of the primary catalysts for gaming's meteoric growth and drive more people to rely on cell phones and tablets for games.