Why the hell don't games come on physical media anymore?!?

[Tehdagah]

(disc fails, drm makes it impossible to install, see securom).

It's amazing how much people try to forget this. I have games I cannot play because the DRM does not work anymore. So much for physical copy conferring ownership.

My PS2 games still work.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

The only really good boxes in of themselves were Blizzard's boxes.

strongly disagree.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

But then it became convenient and cheap enough during sales

but then it stopped being cheap, even during sales.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

(disc fails, drm makes it impossible to install, see securom).

It's amazing how much people try to forget this. I have games I cannot play because the DRM does not work anymore. So much for physical copy conferring ownership.

My PS2 games still work.

Never had disc rot with PS1 or Saturn games, either. I've had a couple audio CDs with minor imperfections in playback and that seem to be getting worse, but still not enough to discourage me from collecting. Cartridges are even more durable. I also have floppies and ZX Spectrum tapes but no way to test them anymore. I still like to own them.

One overlooked aspect of physical media are the small shops that sell specialized things, like old games, records from particular genres, old books, etc. Those are the places where you'll find people with deep knowledge of what they do and willing to share it with others. It's very easy to strike a conversation with a stranger there, which you can hardly do anywhere else. There are other benefits. The place where I buy used games also fixes console hardware, for example. Where else can I walk in with an NES or Game Gear and come pick it up in a few days? Then there are those record stores where the owner knows every local band from a certain genre going back to the 80s. The 90 year old bookshop owner who can talk about any subject because he read everything and also has a hidden trove of obscure books (contrary to what you may think, not every book is online, specially outside the Anglosphere). Covid was almost the death of these places around the world, but the pressure has been growing for years and is unrelenting.

 

[Ravielsk]

Never had disc rot with PS1 or Saturn games, either. I've had a couple audio CDs with minor imperfections in playback and that seem to be getting worse, but still not enough to discourage me from collecting. Cartridges are even more durable. I also have floppies and ZX Spectrum tapes but no way to test them anymore. I still like to own them.

Honestly I get the impression that disc rot is something that happens when the disc was already messed up at the manufacturing stage and it just takes a while to manifest. If it was even half as prevalent as blackpillers like to claim then the 5th gen games should have effectively roted away by 2010 and all the SEGA CD and other early CD games should be dust by now.

 

[Lutte]

But then it became convenient and cheap enough during sales

but then it stopped being cheap, even during sales.

There's other sellers out there, legit ones, that will give you steam keys for really cheap during sales. It's true that valve themselves aren't doing as big of a discount these days, but the platform is not lacking in discounts if you count other sellers. Heck, often quite a bit cheaper even when there's no sales and the game is brand new.

https://isthereanydeal.com/

Is a good central repository to check, only vetted websites are listed.
I used it to buy Elden Ring for 47 euros on release day. It's quite a cheap price for a major game on the day of release. Its historical low was 35 euros, a month ago, about as cheap as I would expect for a game within its first year of release.

Or how about Monster Hunter Rise ? it was available for 20 euros recently on Steam itself, and for 14 euros in its historical low on GameBillet. It's a game released in 2021. How cheap games must be before you're satisfied?

 

[whocares]

I will not eat the bugs. I will not live in a pod. I will not use 2FA.

 

[Ravielsk]

All I know is I had both Dungeon Siege and KOTOR die on me around 2010, which wasn't even a full decade since they were minted. Fuck that noise.

Which is kind of my point. If someone is pinching pennies at the pressing factory that results in defective product that simply takes some time to show said defect. In the case of Dungeon Siege I remember how it was sold literary everywhere even at news stands at one point and almost always as some "best seller" edition so chances are the were printing out tons of low quality discs to meet demand and those simply died earlier than a proper one should.

 

[adddeed]

Last month i used my original Caesar 3 CD to install and play the game, zero issues. Its like 25 years old by now.

 

[Lucumo]

The sealed copies sell for prices that are attractive enough, but then, who the fuck keeps sealed copies of games in their homes apart from nutty collectors?

You would be surprised at how many people just buy the games but then don't play them due to a lack of time or other issues.

The boxfags were basically defeated by history...

If they never started buying the digital stuff, then the publishers lost out in the end. Can it be called a defeat when those people just started spending their money elsewhere? It's more like the industry knowingly ditched a portion of players, willing to sacrifice them for the convenience of not producing physical stuff and having more control of their releases. Remember when gamers were told that digital games would be cheaper due to a lack of production (physical) costs? Yeah, that never happened.

A decade or so ago, "Steamfags" vs "boxfags" was still an active argument on the Codex. The boxfags were basically defeated by history, as the old gamer moral panics surrounding digital distribution, DRM, etc gave way to various identity politics culture wars. But I still remember the howling when Paradox Interactive went Steam-exclusive in 2013...

It also helped that overall Valve didn't try very hard to lock down games on their platform.

Steam's DRM hasn't really changed since inception, and a single method of cracking works on all games that use this. Combined with a steam emulator for games that require steamworks APIs to execute (like achievements, save system, online bits) you don't actually need to redownload a specific cracked version of your game library for games that use this, should you feel the need for reassurance on whether your library will keep working if valve goes to shit.

Also, DRMs aren't mandatory on steam. If a game has DRM it's because the publisher wants it.

Here's a large, yet far from complete list of DRM-free games on steam :

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam

It took me a long while to accept steam personally, my account dates to 2009, steam came out in 2003. But ultimately it was the lesser evil. Do people here even remember Starforce? physical games in that same era started featuring DRMs that are a lot more obnoxious than Steam ever was, installing kernel drivers that could break your windows installation. Boxed copies were never, at any point in time, "the good guy" in the fight against DRM. You actually can't run some of the Starforce games on modern windows. At all. Keeping the stupid CD and its box does you no good.

Meanwhile companies like Blizzard and Ubisoft had introduced shit like "always on" drm, making valve look even better.

Apart from Valve forcing you to use their shitty program, they also employ a "walled-garden" strategy. For instance, you can't just download mods there without any account or whatever. So why would PC players buy on GOG or elsewhere if they don't have access to cool mod A, B and C? Valve always knew how important mods and fans creating content are. It's why they locked it down and it's also why most of their games are bought (Team Fortress, Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat, Portal, Left 4 Dead (although that was a full studio), Alien Swarm, DotA 2, DotA Underlords). And what have they created on their own? Half-Life, Half-Life 2, Half-Life 2: Episode One, Half-Life 2: Episode Two, Artifact and Half-Life: Alyx. So basically only Half-Life and a failed card game.

I wonder if any of the physical media fags even tried using their precious discs recently and how many of them still even work, lol.

Never had any issues with any 90s or 00s CD/DVDs.

 

[Roguey]

If they never started buying the digital stuff, then the publishers lost out in the end. Can it be called a defeat when those people just started spending their money elsewhere? It's more like the industry knowingly ditched a portion of players, willing to sacrifice them for the convenience of not producing physical stuff and having more control of their releases. Remember when gamers were told that digital games would be cheaper due to a lack of production (physical) costs? Yeah, that never happened.

You understand supply and demand right? Physical media for PC ended because the demand stopped. Vast majority of people would prefer to buy a game on their PC and play right away as soon as it finishes downloading than go out to a store and get it or buy it online and wait days/a week for it to arrive and then have to install it.

 

[StrongBelwas]

If they never started buying the digital stuff, then the publishers lost out in the end. Can it be called a defeat when those people just started spending their money elsewhere?

When the end result is the publisher making more money then they ever did before, and in the case of a lot of these publishers more customers then they ever did before, yeah?

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

I don't know where this idea that physical media is as prone to being unusable as digital distribution came from. In the quarter century that I've had collections of games on CDs/DVDs, a grand total of one disc fucked up for me. The Original Big-Box release of Baldur's Gate, the third disc specifically, and it happened only a year or two after I had bought it. Truth be told, I'm not entirely convinced that it was even the disc anyway due to just how shitty Windows ME was.

As far as digital being just as reliable, horse hockey. It's not just the TOS of the company that you're subject to. At any point they wish they can pull support for your entire operating system making every game, regardless of whether or not they are advertised as compatible for said system, inoperable. This will happen at any point they no longer deem it profitable to support. Wanna install a game on native hardware with access to a superior video/audio experience? Tough shit. Already installed prior and wanna continue playing? Tough shit. Steam has already done this for Windows XP.

For my money, I have no grave issue with digital distribution, but I'm not going to delude myself saying it's more reliable when I've personally experienced the day where access to 90% of my collection was revoked without recourse. The price of convenience is reliability.

 

[Lucumo]

If they never started buying the digital stuff, then the publishers lost out in the end. Can it be called a defeat when those people just started spending their money elsewhere? It's more like the industry knowingly ditched a portion of players, willing to sacrifice them for the convenience of not producing physical stuff and having more control of their releases. Remember when gamers were told that digital games would be cheaper due to a lack of production (physical) costs? Yeah, that never happened.

You understand supply and demand right? Physical media for PC ended because the demand stopped. Vast majority of people would prefer to buy a game on their PC and play right away as soon as it finishes downloading than go out to a store and get it or buy it online and wait days/a week for it to arrive and then have to install it.

Not really, as seen by physical DRM-free releases for the PC being quickly sold out. (And I don't mean Japanese ones which sell a lot.) Thimbleweed Park, for instance, was unavailable for longer than it was available, as producing a second and then a third batch took forever. And it still sold so much, despite the costs of importing from the US and a lot of people actually not being aware of a physical copy existing. Physical media for the most part ended because the publishers wanted it like that. I already mentioned the manufacturing/production costs which saved them money and having more control of their releases. Add to that new monetization strategies like not having a proper, complete release but trickles of shit/DLC trying to keep the players engaged. Same with the lootbox/gacha nonsense. If you bought a game, that was all of the game. Maybe a year later an expansion would follow but it was just that. Obviously, that wasn't enough for publishers...not nearly enough at all. It's a simple mental thing.
Demand certainly did decrease at some point in the 00s but that was also due to 1. the emergence and then dominance of MMOs and online games in the mid 00 to the late 00s, 2. the decrease in quality of "normal" games around the same time, 3. draconian DRM by publishers such as online activation, limited installations and other such bs which stopped players from buying those games in the first place (and, luckily, magazines informed us about the DRM).
Nowadays? Sure, digital is the standard for the PC and new generations of players don't know any better. They were also forced towards Steam when PC gaming magazines started including codes instead of real games which was....around 2011 or 2012 here, IIRC.

If they never started buying the digital stuff, then the publishers lost out in the end. Can it be called a defeat when those people just started spending their money elsewhere?

When the end result is the publisher making more money then they ever did before, and in the case of a lot of these publishers more customers then they ever did before, yeah?

The lost sales from boxfags for publishers can't be counted as win of publishers over boxfags because they lost out on money that way and boxfags didn't all just magically start buying the digital crap. They started looking backwards and collecting old PC games instead (or, alternatively, they just exited the gaming market altogether like most of my friends did). As for more customers than ever before...duh, obviously. Since PC gaming started in the 80s and was mainly done by young people, a good number of those would still be playing today and new generations would follow. When those people start dying off en masse, then the customer base might shrink. But even then, third world countries have high population increase, meaning the market will just expand and expand and expand. So adding customers over time is the "natural" thing that occurs. If you are losing players, then it means you have fucked up.

 

[Roguey]

Not really, as seen by physical DRM-free releases for the PC being quickly sold out.

"Sold out" doesn't mean anything. Depends entirely on the print run.

Physical media for the most part ended because the publishers wanted it like that.

And yet console games still come in boxes (because the demand is still strong). PC gamers noped out with Steam.

 

[jimster]

As far as digital being just as reliable, horse hockey. It's not just the TOS of the company that you're subject to. At any point they wish they can pull support for your entire operating system making every game, regardless of whether or not they are advertised as compatible for said system, inoperable. This will happen at any point they no longer deem it profitable to support. Wanna install a game on native hardware with access to a superior video/audio experience? Tough shit. Already installed prior and wanna continue playing? Tough shit. Steam has already done this for Windows XP.

Wot, this is a DRM problem not a digital problem

 

[NecroLord]

 

[Victor1234]

Not really, as seen by physical DRM-free releases for the PC being quickly sold out.

"Sold out" doesn't mean anything. Depends entirely on the print run.

Physical media for the most part ended because the publishers wanted it like that.

And yet console games still come in boxes (because the demand is still strong). PC gamers noped out with Steam.

For how long though? IIRC Xbox now lets you buy games online through the Microsoft store.

 

[Roguey]

For how long though? IIRC Xbox now lets you buy games online through the Microsoft store.

Yeah there are series x models with no optical disc reader, likely due to changing habits. Eventually they too may end up going fully digital. The console gaming installation experience has pretty much been the same as the PC experience since the 360, yet console players have stuck to buying discs all this time. I don't doubt the publishers would love to get the retailer middleman out of the equation, but they can't because high demand is still there (unlike PC where almost everyone flocked to Valve, leaving the brick and mortar stores to stock their shelves with other products).

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

Wot, this is a DRM problem not a digital problem

Yes, in theory there could be a digital distributor that would offer a plain .exe installer (client free) for older systems indefinitely. In practice though, eventually there will be no browsers that even support older operating systems so it won't matter, you won't be able to acquire it. No matter what way you slice it, physical doesn't have these problems. You insert the disc, you install the game, you play it.

This is putting aside the fact that Steam practically has a near monopoly on digital distribution. 3/4 digital sales occur there, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[jimster]

I guess if you're talking about delisting yeah. If you already purchased a DRM-free game and downloaded the installer, which is the same as keeping a disc except you can keep them all on one drive, they legally can't take that away from you.
Physical does have the advantage that you can always buy the game from a reseller so you don't run into delisting, though.

 

[kangaxx]

I liked having boxes and getting a physical copy of a game. Still remember buying SS2 in an HMV in '99 and not being able to wait until I got home to play it.

The cardboard boxes also graduated into a fantastic place in which to hide pornographic videos and cigarettes. Last place they'd look right?

That said I'm not particularly fussed about Steam and GOG, just as long as DRM, forced logins etc aren't weighing down whatever game I'm playing. Nu qHitman was awful for this.

 

[jimster]

Physical was good for forcing nerds to leave the house more

 

[Lucumo]

Not really, as seen by physical DRM-free releases for the PC being quickly sold out.

"Sold out" doesn't mean anything. Depends entirely on the print run.

Physical media for the most part ended because the publishers wanted it like that.

And yet console games still come in boxes (because the demand is still strong). PC gamers noped out with Steam.

It means the demand is stronger than those publishers think/were told to believe aka demand is exceeding the supply.

Because console games were (and still are to a lesser degree) different than PC games. You can't just shove unfinished releases down people's throats like you can on the PC. It's also a closed platform, meaning publishers already have a lot of control, so there is a lot less value in shifting to digital, apart from the manufacturing cost and the monetization (DLC/gacha) business (in the psychological sense). PC gamers weren't given a choice regarding the status quo. They had to either adapt, quit the hobby, look for alternatives or start pirating. I already said what happened and how new generations got conditioned in that regard.

 

[Roguey]

You can't just shove unfinished releases down people's throats like you can on the PC.

Your info is nearly two decades out of date.

It's also a closed platform, meaning publishers already have a lot of control, so there is a lot less value in shifting to digital, apart from the manufacturing cost and the monetization (DLC/gacha) business (in the psychological sense).

Why wouldn't they want to remove the middleman and sell directly through the Sony/Microsoft store? With the move to Steam, they just traded one middleman for another, Valve still takes its cut. Some attempt to sell games through their own stores (EA, Ubisoft) but they're nowhere near as popular as Steam.

PC gamers weren't given a choice regarding the status quo.

Sure they were. The vast majority chose Steam. Germans held out the longest, which is why they kept making boxed copies for that one specific country but nowhere else.