Interview Yet Another Chris Avellone Interview

[Chaotic_Heretic]

felipepepe
Spot on really.
I think he has lost his ability to deliver, or WL2 was just a moneygrab and he didn't bother investing effort into it. Either way it is just him pimping his magnum opus to scam some hard earnt jew gold.

I pledged 45$ for torment and wl2 combo.... and am already regretting it. Wish I could get a refund.

Oh well, At least both are TB.

200$ for an avatar by Chris and he couldn't deliver 5 mins of sketching in a year? Oh man, you guys must be massively butthurt.

 

[felipepepe]

I think he has lost his ability to deliver, or WL2 was just a moneygrab and he didn't bother investing effort into it.

I get really disappointed at this. Wasn't working on a sequel to Wasteland one of his childhood dreams? Just imagine that Tim Cain will do Arcanum 2 and wants you to write an area for the game; damn, I would stay nights awake trying to get the best shit possible done, and would try to stuck around until the end and help as much as possible. MCA just did a shitty area design, and went to LARP Grimrock. So yeah, either he lost any talent he still had, or he simply doesn't care anymore.

200$ for an avatar by Chris? You oldfags behaved like junkies.

I myself didn't do it, but there are some codexers that did...

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Tim Cain will do Arcanum 2 and wants you to write an area for the game

Whose cocks do I have to suck to make that happen? The possibility itself is making me count my life savings... But I guess Brian being the buisnessman he is counted on that with Wasteland loving oldfags. (And he got me with torment )

damn, I would stay nights awake trying to get the best shit possible done, and would try to stuck around until the end and help as much as possible.
MCA just did a shitty area design, and went to LARP Grimrock. So yeah, either he lost any talent he still had, or he simply doesn't care anymore.

Yeah. I fucking dream about arcanum to date and I first played it in 2008-2009 when I was 18. I can only imagine some crpg impacting me during my childhood years would have made me a lot more passionate.
Either way no future Obsidian/inExile KSer am I pledging. Guess it was all marketing speak. 45$... but lesson well learnt. Fucking kwas scam us thirdworlders everywhere.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Chris is not a struggling developer pouring his heart and soul into his work anymore, he's one of he big shots now. Doesn't change the great work he did in the past though.

 

[Duraframe300]

I think he has lost his ability to deliver, or WL2 was just a moneygrab and he didn't bother investing effort into it.

I get really disappointed at this. Wasn't working on a sequel to Wasteland one of his childhood dreams? Just imagine that Tim Cain will do Arcanum 2 and wants you to write an area for the game; damn, I would stay nights awake trying to get best shit possible done, and would try to stuck around until the end and help as much as possible. MCA just did a shitty area design, and went to LARP Grimrock. So yeah, either he lost any talent he still had, or he simply doesn't care anymore.

200$ for an avatar by Chris? You oldfags behaved like junkies.

I myself didn't do it, but there are some codexers that did...

No, you wouldn't. In a situation similiar to Chris the only thing you would do was make a critique about the final design and hope they will hear it and it will live up to your idea. That's the only thing you can do as you are not involved in the actual implentation of it. (And why both W2 and Torment will disappoint in the end if you are setting your expectations too high)

Add to that, that Chris isn't exactly the person who would make a big tantrum and tada.

Chris still has all his talents, and imo has proven it multiple times.

 

[felipepepe]

No, you wouldn't. In a situation similiar to Chris the only thing you would do was make a critique about the final design and hope they will hear it and it will live up to your idea. That's the only thing you can do as you are not involved in the actual implentation of it.

Oh, so level designers now have nothing to do with how it turns out, they only write stuff in vacuum and hope for the best? Not to mention that the main fault of Ag. Center is not bad implementation of content, is shitty content that wastes all the potential the setting presents. And that's 100% on MCA.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Chris is not a struggling developer pouring his heart and soul into his work anymore, he's one of he big shots now. Doesn't change the great work he did in the past though.

Chris is on the same path as Richard G. Sure he made a few great games in the past... but I won't give him money (again) only on vauge promises and nothing to show for.

Wait a few decades before his shitty don't give a fuck terribad work sinks in.

 

[Rake]

No, you wouldn't. In a situation similiar to Chris the only thing you would do was make a critique about the final design and hope they will hear it and it will live up to your idea. That's the only thing you can do as you are not involved in the actual implentation of it.

Oh, so level designers now have nothing to do with how it turns out, they only write stuff in vacuum and hope for the best? Not to mention that the main fault of Ag. Center is not bad implementation of content, is shitty content that wastes all the potential the setting presents. And that's 100% on MCA.

Care to elaborate on which ways the A. Center was bad compaired to the other areas of the game?

 

[Dokkalfar]

No, you wouldn't. In a situation similiar to Chris the only thing you would do was make a critique about the final design and hope they will hear it and it will live up to your idea. That's the only thing you can do as you are not involved in the actual implentation of it.

Oh, so level designers now have nothing to do with how it turns out, they only write stuff in vacuum and hope for the best? Not to mention that the main fault of Ag. Center is not bad implementation of content, is shitty content that wastes all the potential the setting presents. And that's 100% on MCA.

Actually, how I see it in terms of level-design the Ag Center is the best designed map/location in the beta, most of the other maps suffer from a boxed-in feel, but Ag Center actually does feel huge and non-linear, and there's always multiple paths, even when you get to the basement you are faced with three sealed doors, and each one branches off into a new location (mushroom caves, the Fields, etc).

In terms of content, Ag Center is fine - if you just think of it as a dungeon - which is exactly what it is. The objective was always just to clear out the infected creatures and stop the mutation from continuing. And as a dungeon it does have pretty good level-design, so I think Avellone did a good job.

Some of the writing was a bit off though, Rail Nomads had way better writing.

BTW I was just lurking, but felt the need to sign-up to talk about this.

 

[Duraframe300]

Some of the writing was a bit off though, Rail Nomads had way better writing.

Nathan Long was the writer IIRC.

 

[tuluse]

Actually, how I see it in terms of level-design the Ag Center is the best designed map/location in the beta, most of the other maps suffer from a boxed-in feel, but Ag Center actually does feel huge and non-linear, and there's always multiple paths, even when you get to the basement you are faced with three sealed doors, and each one branches off into a new location (mushroom caves, the Fields, etc).

In terms of content, Ag Center is fine - if you just think of it as a dungeon - which is exactly what it is. The objective was always just to clear out the infected creatures and stop the mutation from continuing. And as a dungeon it does have pretty good level-design, so I think Avellone did a good job.

Some of the writing was a bit off though, Rail Nomads had way better writing.

BTW I was just lurking, but felt the need to sign-up to talk about this.

It's not a very good dungeon either. It had repetitive encounters and one of the most boring "puzzles" ever.

 

[hiver]

No, you wouldn't. In a situation similiar to Chris the only thing you would do was make a critique about the final design and hope they will hear it and it will live up to your idea. That's the only thing you can do as you are not involved in the actual implentation of it.

Oh, so level designers now have nothing to do with how it turns out, they only write stuff in vacuum and hope for the best? Not to mention that the main fault of Ag. Center is not bad implementation of content, is shitty content that wastes all the potential the setting presents. And that's 100% on MCA.

Care to elaborate on which ways the A. Center was bad compaired to the other areas of the game?

You didnt read my review? Other areas were just as bad too.

Its somewhere in w2 thread. - page 81 -

 

[Duraframe300]

No, you wouldn't. In a situation similiar to Chris the only thing you would do was make a critique about the final design and hope they will hear it and it will live up to your idea. That's the only thing you can do as you are not involved in the actual implentation of it.

Oh, so level designers now have nothing to do with how it turns out, they only write stuff in vacuum and hope for the best? Not to mention that the main fault of Ag. Center is not bad implementation of content, is shitty content that wastes all the potential the setting presents. And that's 100% on MCA.

Nope.

Those things are connected. Not saying MCA is faultless (And he's only a mediocre decent at best area designer to begin with, ) but yeah.

 

[Dokkalfar]

Actually, how I see it in terms of level-design the Ag Center is the best designed map/location in the beta, most of the other maps suffer from a boxed-in feel, but Ag Center actually does feel huge and non-linear, and there's always multiple paths, even when you get to the basement you are faced with three sealed doors, and each one branches off into a new location (mushroom caves, the Fields, etc).

In terms of content, Ag Center is fine - if you just think of it as a dungeon - which is exactly what it is. The objective was always just to clear out the infected creatures and stop the mutation from continuing. And as a dungeon it does have pretty good level-design, so I think Avellone did a good job.

Some of the writing was a bit off though, Rail Nomads had way better writing.

BTW I was just lurking, but felt the need to sign-up to talk about this.

It's not a very good dungeon either. It had repetitive encounters

How creative can you really get with mindless monsters? There is a decent amount of enemy variety in AC, 4 unique creatures (5 if you count exploding pods), more than enough for a relatively small dungeon, but ultimately they are just mindless creatures that will run at you, they can't really give them great AI or it would be stupid.

I think as a "starting dungeon", AC (or Highpool) were OK.

It also had those "secret" optional areas you can unlock by talking with a certain NPC, which was neat and done subtly.

and one of the most boring "puzzles" ever.

Which "puzzle" are you referring to?

 

[tuluse]

How creative can you really get with mindless monsters? There is a decent amount of enemy variety in AC, 4 unique creatures (5 if you count exploding pods), more than enough for a relatively small dungeon, but ultimately they are just mindless creatures that will run at you, they can't really give them great AI or it would be stupid.

I think as a "starting dungeon", AC (or Highpool) were OK.

It also had those "secret" optional areas you can unlock by talking with a certain NPC, which was neat and done subtly.


Which "puzzle" are you referring to?

In the basement the ways to get past the hallways with the gas in them.

 

[Dokkalfar]

Right, didn't really think of it as a puzzle. You mean the robot thing you can use? I never managed to figure out how to stop the gas, just ran through it.

 

[hiver]

Its a completely linear dungeon. You go in, pop moles and there is no difference in the outcome regardless of what you do. When you come back from dungeoning a few NPCS offer you simple horribly binary choice.
And even worse, only one choice makes sense. The other is "im going to be an asshole muahaha" - which doesnt make any difference at all in anything, except one or two characters mention that was assholish of you. Which doesnt change anything at all.
The content, items, rewards - it all remains the same, completely unaffected.

Example, you can "choose" not to give the cure to one major NPC who turns into a monster you quickly kill - but his friend, the second major NPC will still give you all the same options, advices and rewards.

 

[tuluse]

Right, didn't really think of it as a puzzle. You mean the robot thing you can use? I never managed to figure out how to stop the gas, just ran through it.

You have to turn on the fans.

 

[Dokkalfar]

Its a completely linear dungeon. You go in, pop moles and there is no difference in the outcome regardless of what you do. When you come back from dungeoning a few NPCS offer you simple horribly binary choice.
And even worse, only one choice makes sense. The other is "im going to be an asshole muahaha" - which doesnt make any difference at all in anything, except one or two characters mention that was assholish of you. Which doesnt change anything at all.
The content, items, rewards - it all remains the same, completely unaffected.

Example, you can "choose" not to give the cure to one major NPC who turns into a monster you quickly kill - but his friend, the second major NPC will still give you all the same options, advices and rewards.

So? It's a dungeon, how many dungeons from computer RPG's can you name which are so brimming with choices and reactivity? Most dungeons you will be lucky to find a single NPC at all. I don't see how going into a location and killing stuff is somehow a kind of dirty word, isn't that what RPG's are about? I found it enjoyable regardless.

Technically the player already made their "choice" when they choose to save either AC or Highpool, so the only thing to do after that is to save either place, nothing more.

 

[felipepepe]

Care to elaborate on which ways the A. Center was bad compaired to the other areas of the game?

Me and Hiver talked a lot about that already on other threads... but the biggest problem is that, just like the rest of W2, it's a banal, cookie-cutter RPG area that doesn't absolutely nothing new or even well, just a vast sea of mediocrity... made even worst by the fact that the basic premise is so promising:

Ag. Center has your squad of rangers visiting a area overrun by gigantic mutated plants & intects. The staff is missing or dead, there's talk of sabotage and there are spores infecting people.

It's a great premise, a good writer would go absolutely wild with this. But it falls horribly short and lazy. I.e, the sabotage sub-plot. As you slowly rescue the missing staff members, they each talk about who they think was responsible. Great. From this you could set up a fantastic detective plot, where you have to do your best to find and save the scientist, each one giving their side of the story, some lying, others telling the truth (think Rashomon); failing to save/find someone means you lose his side of the story.... From there you should deduce the traitor, and the answer you give has various outcomes.

What the motherfucking God of RPG Writting, Master Chirs Avellone did with this? As soon as you reach the end of the dungeon, a retarded comic book villain jumps and shouts "I DID IT, DIE RANGERS!!!". And that's it.

 

[Dokkalfar]

a retarded comic book villain jumps and shouts "I DID IT, DIE RANGERS!!!". And that's it.

That guy obviously wasn't the villain, he was some kind of pawn used to dump the mutagen in the irrigation system. Didn't you notice that he talks normally until he just goes nuts and says die rangers, not to mention he explodes like a pod person when you kill him, so he was obviously completely infected - yet for some reason didn't turn into a mindless pod person.

When you don't save AC, and then return to it, he's the only one alive (after Kathy dies out front) and he's been shot multiple times, yet is still alive. So I'm going to say I don't think he was human.

I'm not saying I don't disagree, it was a bit disappointing, but how do you not know the AC plot hook isn't going to recur and be completely solved later in the game? When you have Rose in your party, she says as much, that this isn't over and she wants to stick with you to get to the bottom of it.

Also there's the fact that the game strongly implies Ag Center and Highpool were attacked simultaneously, there's also the Red Scorpions at Highpool who are killed before they can help (presumably by robots).

 

[hiver]

Its not just a fucking dungeon. Its one of the bigger locations in the game.

Zero C&C - ZERO. i dont need it to be filled with C&C, but thanks for argument from absurdity.
And yes, the villain... pfff... that was worse then bethesda or bioware do it. - whatever traces of some bigger plot were there do not change anything about how pathetic and simplistic
the location is. (add that claims that the area is good on account of supposed content that is not there or wont be a part of that location even if its true is just mindbogglingly stupid - and a clear sign of another "fan" logic)

To be clear, im not sure how much of that is Chris fault. But when the public information is as it was - "hey will get Avellone to design a location" ... well fuck it, thats what we have to go on.
The Alpha-Beta was rushed. It was late. They were scrambling to release something, anything.


But, nothing, not a single godamn thing in it was even alluding there will be more to it. And the rest of the locations are the same.

I don't see how going into a location and killing stuff is somehow a kind of dirty word, isn't that what RPG's are about?

Nope. thats what superficial action "rpg"s are about.

Technically the player already made their "choice" when they choose to save either AC or Highpool, so the only thing to do after that is to save either place, nothing more.

Technically thats not a choice inside the AG center. And it is forced in a really shallow way - and there is no possibility to fail to save AG center.

if you just stupidly refuse to apply the posion to kill the plants, or if you just stupidly refuse to give the serum to Matt... fuck all happens.

it doesnt make any difference at all.

 

[Infinitron]

Yo dawg, I herd you like choice in your dungeons so I gave you a choice of dungeon so you can choose a dungeon

 

[hiver]

Pretty much. Made even worse by the manner they introduce this - you cannot even see the locations on the world map before you "choose".

 

[Infinitron]

I was actually making fun of your position, not the game.

As for what you mentioned, they're going to let you visit all these locations right at the beginning of the game in an upcoming version.