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Anime Your most hated video game protagonists

AndyS

Augur
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
620
Yeah, Batman should just kill. The game talking to the player about unnecessary killing and scoring the player like in old Metal Gear Solid is one thing, but Arkham has baddies bouncing against invisible walls on rooftops to preserve Batman's ridiculous code. I'm not asking for a butcher, but there's a better balance to be had than this bullshit. Someone here told me that the no kill rule only started after Batman became way darker, with more bone-crunching violence. Would know better than I, who hasn't read any of the classic Batman comics that were supposedly lighter in tone.
Batman killed enemies in his earliest appearances but they basically stopped it when Robin debuted in 1940. The first Tim Burton Batman movie is heavily inspired by this brief pre-Robin period, right down to him using glass smoke grenades. Once Robin came in, the tone became much goofier since Batman was partnering with a little kid and it mostly stayed there until around 1970, when Neal Adams and Denny O'Neil decided to "get back to the roots" of the character by making his ears longer and such. It was still pretty goofy but more in the way of a classic Bond movie or something. Then Frank Miller did his stories in the mid-80s and the character has been stuck in that grim tooth-gnashing rut ever since. The Arkham games are hilarious to me in all the wrong ways.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
13,488
I dislike the combination of a pregenerated protagonist and extensive cutscenes featuring the protagonist. Although the first Witcher game wasn't too bad in this regard, CDPR went all in on cinematic cutscenes for the sequel, and the third game wasn't much different. Similarly, Kingdom Come: Deliverance was undermined by forcing the player to be Henry of Skalitz, even if his personality was more flexible than Geralt of Rivia, and constantly interrupting gameplay with cutscenes.
 

Necrensha

Educated
Joined
Aug 31, 2024
Messages
575
Location
Deep underground
If I was unhinged enough to pay to post on forums, I'd press the NPC button
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How much money did you have to spend to experience all of them? :M
Don't need to, gacha addicts have flooded literally every single corner of the internet except this very specific website. Early morning EU hours have transformed into SEA hours globally.
 

GamerCat_

Educated
Joined
Mar 24, 2024
Messages
152
I don't play many games that don't look appealing to me, and it's rare that I'll dislike a character who makes any kind of impression. This character I can't call "hated", and that's why I might hate him. Hate his game, hate his existence, hate that this industry is mostly a mountain of missed opportunities, misunderstandings, and failures once we leave Japan.

Nick Ramos from Dead Rising 3.

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Do any of you remember this guy? Probably not. That's very much the problem.

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Dead Rising had a fantastic protagonist in Frank West. Who I believe was uniquely defined by his atavistic appearance and manner. He looked like a cross between a neanderthal and an Amerifat who used to play football in high school. And he was kind of a genuine asshole with an authentic feeling selfish and practical characterisation which fit beautifully into a genuinely edgy and transgressive game about globalism, consumerism (Americans being fat), and terrorism.

Dead Rising's power I believe was in the depth and authenticity of its pathos. Frank was a product of this. A guy who feels like he has real human depths to him, even if he's not complex. There's a whole person there. And not everyone has some great drama going on. Frank is just kind of an asshole. He needs to make money. The world is trying to go around, and him with it. And this attitude, his as much as everyone else's, is ultimately the caused the game's priming incident and led to the current tragic situation. Frank is a complete person who fits into a complete world generated by a thoughtful, honest, and unflinching, even if not necessarily complex contemplation of how people are. This I believe is a unique strength Japanese pop-art taps into. It shouldn't be unique. But it is. If you just think about things, and make organic connections and developments, if you aren't lying to yourself about the world the results will probably become compelling if you address something dear and serious to us. Like living, death, struggle, and prosperity. Where do these ideas go? If you're the original Capcom team they go to Willamette, Frank, and everyone else.


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Then Dead Rising 2 had a decent protagonist in Chuck Greene. A handsome, mild, all around excellent guy who feels so much like a woman's fantasy that to me he always felt more like a guy who should be turning up in a Netflix Christmas movie than a zombie plot about human awfulness. And that's the thing. He's not in a plot about human awfulness, at least not real human awfulness. Dead Rising 2 was made by Canadians, people ridden with various complex and unnatural psychopathologies which render them more or less allergic to honestly addressing the human condition. Especially by around 2010.

Frank West was a serious, heavy, worn down man leveraging himself against a harsh, fat, stupid, and unfair world. Chuck Greene is a sexy grizzled widow-daddy ("hear that ladies?") roped into a quest to help his PETA girlfriend fight late capitalism, which wants to withhold your free healthcare for profit and oppress you with its various heavyset male authority figure enforcers. Chuck is a clean mister perfect and a perfect reflection of the new Canadian Moral Picture of the world and people which informed and generated this second production. Frank's adventure in the middle of nowhere among the quaint townies managed to present an infinitely more dark, sleezy, and bleak picture of human nature to Chuck Greene's fight for his life in the Second City of Sin. The problems with the world are no longer intractable or inherent within us. It is now greedy people. It is the corpos. But grizzled sexy widow daddy is here to punch them in the nose, and in collaboration with the free and fearless press (a staple of the world of 2010) he is going to solve this. Drama. Tragedy. Terror. The Human Condition... sanded down and refined to a level that a Canadian millennial is comfortable with. We just need a good guy to punch the bad corpo who wants to take healthcare. No interesting person is going to emerge from this universe.

That said... who remembers Dead Rising 2: Off the Record? The most bizarrely good do-over of a video game I've ever seen. Pretty much every problem I have with 2 is fixed by making Frank the hero again. Frank still exists in the Dead Rising universe after 1, but he's this weird vestigial element, obviously a product of fundamentally different sensibilities. But the force of his presence in 2, the same basic premise rewritten to make him fit into it, suddenly it more or less works. Frank is not Chuck. By Dead Rising 2 they decided he should be outright ugly. Hair is falling out. Fatter. More disheveled. Wrinkled. Maybe they do this because they have to make him a joke to be comfortable with his fundamentally unclean character. But a dirty joke character is much better than a clean nothing (sorry Chuck). Scenes which feel completely trite and pointless in 2 suddenly have a touch of human spark in Off the Record because Frank at the very least will get exasperated, make jokes, wonder about making money, and generally act like a person with interests and motivations rather than a protagonistic force of goodness and plot resolution.

But the funniest part of Off the Record is how they handled Chuck. His spot in the story is given to Frank. So where does he go..?

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Grizzled sexy widow daddy becomes insane hobo widow (former) daddy. This is kind of cruel. And insanely funny. That they killed off his human connection to the plot and played his complete self destruction for laughs. And this works too. He's actually more human in this sideshow what-if appearance scene than his entire protagonist role. And he gets the best boss theme in the entire series to accompany his second showing.







And now, sorry about the wait, that brings us to Nick Ramos. If you've followed me so far, you get why I like Frank more than Chuck, I shouldn't really even need to finish the post. The conceptual frame is there. Put Dead Rising 3 in there and compare along the lines established. If Dead Rising bled pathos as it went through the Canadian wringer through to the realisation of Dead Rising 2, then after the next production cycle the energy, spirit, and truth of the original Japanese creation was completely wrung out, and by Dead Rising 3 we have a work completely divorced from real unfiltered or distorted contact with anything human. If Dead Rising 2 was a product of a refined and sanitisation of vision, Dead Rising 3 is a vision collapsing into a void.

That's how you get Nick Ramos. Nick Ramos is what you write when you're afraid of writing anything. He does not have a personality. Nothing about him has roots in human nature. There is not a whole of depth within him, his form as a created character not an expression of the whole of anybody real on the production side, Nick Ramos is a final product of a refusal to acknowledge or address the world as it is. Or really even at all. And this is symptomatic of the whole of Dead Rising 3. Void-man protagonist of a void-game. If you've actually played this thing you might have gotten the same feeling I did. That this poor game barely limped over the production finish-line on a wing and a prayer. But, I did not get the feeling that the real Nick was on the cutting room floor somewhere. It's probably more symptom. The production was troubled because how do you give direction to a work that's about nothing? It's just a pileup of video game stuff. With a plot that's just western video game plot stuff. The limp, sanitised threats of 2 have reached final placeholder anti-culture forms by 3. Conspiracy of old arcade game villains to hurt the masses for no real reason, but played straight in a kind of dumb imitation of the form of a plot that seeks to bear moral weight because these people are so far off from meaning they can't even tell what they're missing. Characters monologue, get indignant and upset, tell their motivations, but there is absolutely no sense, discernable humanity or pathos to a single word of it. The utter pointlessness that western popular culture managed to sink to under Obama is bewildering to consider in retrospect. These poor Canadians had their souls hollowed out by the New World Order. You know not a single person who worked on this game was capable of resisting the vaxx.

I might seem like I'm talking around Nick Ramos here, but what else is there to say? Ramos, like the other two characters, really becomes interesting in consideration of the forces that generated him. This is what art is to me, it's how I entertain myself. Fictional biographies in isolation strike me as a deeply boring and pointless way to pass time. And it goes both ways, interesting roots are how you get interesting characters, so if you're interested in criticism you have to understand this.

I have spent all this time telling you Nick has tortured, artificial roots. And what is the product of those roots? What is Nick? Frank West is a Mercenary. Chuck Greene is a boring steadfast hero. Nick Ramos is... kind of a whiney retarded faggot.

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He has no personal driving force to him. Kind of a common theme in video game protagonists, they often need to be guys who are taking directions all the time because the game has to move from fixed situation to fixed situation. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas played off of this amusingly by making CJ a limp doormat disrespected by everyone. To justify his taking orders no matter how powerful or competent he gets, and to create a comedic motif and serve as a funny contrast to the ever-escalating scale of the things he's being told to do. He gets yelled at and called a bitch, then reluctantly goes to hijack a fighter jet.

The industry as a whole has been rather self aware about this for a long time. And you can do things with it. Not every protagonist has to be some kind of self-driven overman to not disgust me. I actually quite like CJ the ultimate doormat. But Nick Ramos is not written with any wit or finesse. CJ is personally weak to set up his lack of freedom within the primary plot. Nick Ramos is personally weak because Capcom Vancouver apparently just didn't want to step on any toes by writing about anything. So whenever anything happens he squeals and asks "WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?" like he's John YIIKman and then defers to the nearest authority figure. That often being his fat rockabilly boss-chick mechanic boss. Why is his boss a fat rockabilly chick? Because that's a random combination of harmless fashions I suppose. And what is he doing all game? Just running and surviving. He comes into conflict constantly, but always reluctantly. Frank was a reasonable mercenary out to avoid trouble, but clearly didn't like bad people. His vague reactions in cutscenes served to set up your own spontaneous response to the scenario facing him once control was thrown back to you.

Nick's reactions to danger are always some kind of preposterous stumbling panic leading into extreme violence. Nothing in the game feels violent, the tone is confused, detached, kind of bad-comedy awkwardness. But he's always killing people in response to these situations in which he demonstrates no serious resolve of any kind. Which creates a very strange feeling as you go. This guy was obviously written by people uncomfortable with violence. The whole game could have been light and vapid to work around that, but the vestigial moral weight and general moral framing of Dead Rising 1 for whatever reason died hard. The game's bosses (primary "human" enemies) are associated with "sins". What does "sin" mean to Capcom Vancouver? Obviously it's just a vapid gimmick. They feel a vague responsibility to put a moral dimension in their story. It comes out as a series of rotely produced labels. "uhhh, this guy was... angry... so Nick is going to stumble into his house, accidentally piss him off, then spend five minutes braining him with a double-sword-axe contraption. This is what it means to be serious. We believe we are a more serious culture than Japan (2013 remember)."

Nick Ramos is just a weak, humourless, void of a character spawned by a weak, humourless, void of a production. A product of a weak, humourless, void of a culture (Canada in 2013). This was set up to go very badly.

Another Obamagimmick to this game that I liked, is that there's another character in the plot who is his own character for playing co-op. I played this game with a friend (wouldn't have made it otherwise) and had a fun time playing as him. The dueteragonist, Dick, looks like Nick but Blonde, and has a minor role in some cutscenes that he's canonically present for. And while his presence is very thin, from what we see of him he's kind of a snarky asshole. And in those comments he gives off more of an impression of a real human inner life than Nick does across the whole game. Under these circumstances the general spirit of light negativity feels like a ray of something approaching humanity piercing through a dead overcast cover of Obama anticulture. Even then, Good God don't play the game for Dick. He's barely even a character. Just saying that because he's so light they felt no need to distort or mess with him and gave him a stock basic type casting, which makes him feel like a better human foundation for a story than the actual protagonist who gets all the screentime.

If there's any fun in this game it's playing with a friend and dressing Nick and Dick like psychopaths while you blow things up for a while. I wrote all of this, so you can clearly see that my negative reaction to Nick Ramos means a lot to me. Is he my most hated protagonist? Well he's the one I immediately felt I could produce a wall of negativity on for your pleasure.

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NecroLord

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Shitposter
Joined
Sep 6, 2022
Messages
16,285
I dislike the combination of a pregenerated protagonist and extensive cutscenes featuring the protagonist. Although the first Witcher game wasn't too bad in this regard, CDPR went all in on cinematic cutscenes for the sequel, and the third game wasn't much different. Similarly, Kingdom Come: Deliverance was undermined by forcing the player to be Henry of Skalitz, even if his personality was more flexible than Geralt of Rivia, and constantly interrupting gameplay with cutscenes.
Protagonists that are modelled after their voice actors and those who motion cap them (if applicable).

Never quite liked it.
 

VerSacrum

Educated
Joined
Aug 19, 2023
Messages
314
Location
Switzerland
Dragonborn in Skyrim - the super special power background is dull and uninspired compared to the blank slates of Daggerfall and Oblivion or the Nerevarine from Morrowind and the dialogue is idiotic, basically written entirely from the perspective of someone who never played a TES before rather than a resident of Tamriel, with zero room for roleplay.
 

NecroLord

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Shitposter
Joined
Sep 6, 2022
Messages
16,285
Dragonborn in Skyrim - the super special power background is dull and uninspired compared to the blank slates of Daggerfall and Oblivion or the Nerevarine from Morrowind and the dialogue is idiotic, basically written entirely from the perspective of someone who never played a TES before rather than a resident of Tamriel, with zero room for roleplay.
Morrowind had it right with options in dialogue including:
- Intimidation (self-explanatory, works based off Speech and PC character level compared to the target npc)
You forcefully raise an npc's disposition towards you (thus making him/her talk to you or divulge a secret) by intimidating the npc, though it will damage your disposition with that npc after the initial dialogue.

- Admire (safest choice to raise npc disposition, though it only works with high Speech and it will be hard to raise disposition past a certain point, indeed, it may even lower it if the npc thinks you are disingenuous).

- Bribe (self explanatory, the bigger the bribe, the higher the raise in disposition).

- Taunt (my favorite option, you basically provoke the npc into attacking you, though it requires high Speechcraft and potentially several tries). This is tremendously useful in assassination quests, since if the npc attacks you first, then you are allowed to defend yourself according to Vvardenfell law.
Other major (if cheesy) use is to provoke npcs with great gear into attacking you, then kill them and take their weapons and armor (watch out for Main Quest essential characters, lest you get hit with the memetic "With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed" game text).
 

Elttharion

Learned
Joined
Jan 10, 2023
Messages
3,556
This cringe faggot, and the writting in general, completely ruined Hades for me. It was a decent roguelite but Jesus I hated everything apart from the combat

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Skinwalker

*teleports in front of you*
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Undisputed Queen of Faggotry Village Idiot
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Ryztard still trying to argue that Triss and Yennefer are protagonists of Witcher 2/3. Can we behead and be done with this?
 

Falksi

Arcane
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Feb 14, 2017
Messages
11,189
Location
Nottingham
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  • Chrono from Chrono Trigger. The entire game is written around him as if he's a character with his own personality, and yet he has no personality. To emphasize this, there's a point where you can switch Chrono at a point in time for a doll, and it really rams home just how vapid and empty his shell is as this doll has the same personality as he does...none. This could, just maybe, be excusable if the game played the "self-insert" angle straight, but it doesn't, Chrono does actually speak a line of dialogue in the game in one of the endings, so that angle is flushed down the shitter. To make it worse, the autistic Chrono Trigger fans love all that because it represents their mental spasticness...
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"Autism doesn't hurt"

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  • Aerie from BG2. How can you not want to decapitate this annoying slag within a few hours of having her in your party? She is a fucking right cunt.

  • Baby Mario: Just listen



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  • Yennefer. Who does this tart think she fucking is, and how has Geralt not lopped her head off? She's the most stuck up, snotty, annoying bitch in the Witcher series by far, and I've no idea how anyone would choose her over the rather seductively submissive and much more enticing Triss. She's so far up her own arse she's a human colonoscopy.

 
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Kabas

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
1,889
Shelly "Bombshell" from Ion Fury
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Devs clearly wanted her to be seen as a badass action hero(female) or Duke Nukem with tits but it just doesn't work to me. Most of her one-liners come off as forced.
Don't really hate her but her charisma are nowhere near the level of original Duke or Lo Wang.
 

Thalstarion

Educated
Joined
Jul 27, 2024
Messages
339
The vast majority of JRPG protagonists.

Quite often they're just petulant teenagers who have an exceptionally naive view of the world and only win because of stupid levels of plot armour and the lame trope that is the power of friendship.

Other than that, pretty much any scowling woman trying to look intimidating. That's probably the biggest red flag for many a compromised game.
 

Vlajdermen

Arcane
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
2,234
Location
Catholic Serbia
bayonetta. at every turn she gets nude for everyone to see, except me.
While I appreciate her flamboyance and her animations, the idea of a woman fighter is so unattractive to me. It's like you put all this effort into creating this saucy cocktease, just for all of the sex appeal to go down the shitter the moment the gameplay starts. I could only see her working in a rhythm game.
 

Vlajdermen

Arcane
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
2,234
Location
Catholic Serbia
Kratos in God of War 3. He starts the trilogy angry and brutal and it keeps getting ramped up throughout the trilogy that by the time of the third title, he's just "GRAAAAA" all the time. It's tedious.
I hate that I have to agree with you. The idea of the game being an ape shit simulator is good, and would have worked if the plot had any escalating momentum instead of pissing around for 10 hours, and if the gameplay wasn't pure monotony.
 

Ezekiel

Arcane
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
6,987
Heh, Crystal Dynamics' Lara Croft is so disliked that the few people who named her didn't even bother to explain. Because it's so known, so well discussed. Can't wait to see the new level of cringe in the new game.
 

Vlajdermen

Arcane
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
2,234
Location
Catholic Serbia
3A9BVYg.png

  • Chrono from Chrono Trigger. The entire game is written around him as if he's a character with his own personality, and yet he has no personality. To emphasize this, there's a point where you can switch Chrono at a point in time for a doll, and it really rams home just how vapid and empty his shell is as this doll has the same personality as he does...none. This could, just maybe, be excusable if the game played the "self-insert" angle straight, but it doesn't, Chrono does actually speak a line of dialogue in the game in one of the endings, so that angle is flushed down the shitter. To make it worse, the autistic Chrono Trigger fans love all that because it represents their mental spasticness...
UbuOgQz.png

"Autism doesn't hurt"
Agreed. I never understood the boner japs have for silent protagonists. Sure, put them in a link to the past or some other game that's 90% spelunking, and it's fine. But in the 3d zeldas or chrono trigger where people talk to you all the time and you have a backstory to live up to, and it's just awkward.
 

GamerCat_

Educated
Joined
Mar 24, 2024
Messages
152
The vast majority of JRPG protagonists.

Quite often they're just petulant teenagers who have an exceptionally naive view of the world and only win because of stupid levels of plot armour and the lame trope that is the power of friendship.

Other than that, pretty much any scowling woman trying to look intimidating. That's probably the biggest red flag for many a compromised game.
Surprised to see how many people hate JRPG protagonists. I thought we were all collectively over that by now. Especially someone saying they hate Squall.
-Squall, from FF8
A voiceless mega-introvert who repeatedly tells everybody else to fuck off and reluctantly follows along because the plot demands it. His only memorable phrase is ''Whatever...''. Squall could've been an interesting side character but when you put him as the protagonist it becomes tiresome. Impossible to care about anything that's going on when your protagonist is like this.
Do you people just hate all actual teenagers? If you can't care about this what do you care about?



This doesn't win you over? There's more pathos in this scene than most entire games. I like that he's a moody standoffish asshole. That doesn't have to go anywhere or be a dynamic element in every scene. I like it because it suggests human depth. People are like that. He's written that way because that's how people can be. You can imagine plausible human depth behind this characterisation and behind correct. He's consistent and flat in affect, but not shallow.

the drunk guy from disco elysium is terminally up his own ass and the fact that he happens to do detective work somehow is an aspect of the game i find almost as hardly believable as positive representation of communism
Seconded for the dipshit in Disco Elysium. He's the reason I bounced off the game so hard. It was like the homeless guy scene from American Psycho. "I don't have anything in common with you. Do you know what a fucking loser you are?"
What I'll say for The Detective is that if you don't like him, we can't say he ruined the game for you, because he is the game. He's a thematic mirror of the game's world and embodiment of the game's premise. He's a broken barely functional mess scarred by countless mistakes, bad ideas, and failures, bound here and there and still acting out or reflecting various ones for nonsensical reasons, with the potential to maybe be redeemed by finding some integrity and commitment, or maybe it's just cope, but it can get him over the next hill.

You can call that retarded commie hopepunk garbage if you want. I think it obviously is since all of the cool disaffected leftists adjacent to this game either gave up the commie shit to hang out with curtis yarvin or gave themselves brain damage with gutter-drugs trying to cope with the dead-end that is their beliefs. I don't think The Detective is a dishonest or even dislikable character, his existence just begs questions we can't ignore anymore. Because we solved them. Trump Won. You don't have to live like this. Hopepunk mysticism is out. We solve problems and deport communists to Guatemala. The city from Disco Elysium could be fixed if Donald Trump showed up.
 

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